[EU] Champions League 04/05 (39 Viewers)

[arc]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
1) I thought the placings of the European clubs depend on how well their teams do in CL ... So how come England is suddenly getting four ? Is it based on this season?

Even if 'Pool won the CL I dont think they should automatically be in it next season

it will polly be chelsea. man utd, arsenal and everton
i really hope to have liverpool in our stage group next seaon so we can kick their arse in both legs :fero:

 

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[Slagathor]

Once again a boring CL final guarantee. I'll be watching the UEFAcup final but that's it. Hate the CL...

 

[Maresca]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++


Exactly 'how' did Milan play a weaker side? They were without Sheva, thats it. And I know that, Milan were 5x better then we were, I'm not saying we were better, I was merely saying that, had Giggs of scored it would of been different, but really it doesnt matter, we're out, Milan is in Final, GO MILAN!

Milan played their best games of the season (from tactical point of view) against MANU.
Something has changed in the menatality of Manu in the last years, there was so much of fire an spirit in this team. but I can not see this any more in ManU. My Brother (ManU fan) says that this was changed their 2 games against real 2 years ago...

 

[Henry]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


And whose fault is that?...

I understand that it is Liverpool's fault completely that they will not get 4th spot. and if they don't win the CL, then they can only blame themselves. but if they win the CL, even without that 4th spot they should be in next years comp because they would be defending champions. you can be a bit obnoxious at times. just because I said it sucks doesn't mean I'm not blaming Liverpool. it sucks that Juve went out of the CL-does that mean that I don't know that it was still their fault??

 

[sallyinzaghi]

But Hwieniawski even if they do become defending champions I really dont think they should automatically be qualified. In fact didnt they abolish that rule for World Cup?

 

[Chxta]

Let's be honest: if you took all the tramps, wastrels and bums that
loiter around Soho Square, sponged down their Tin-stained suits, and
gave them high-paying jobs at the FA, their decision-making couldn't
be much worse than the current lot. And they might end up with less
egg and/or secretaries on their faces too.

Exhibit of FA incompetence No32371: having decreed yesterday that
Liverpool must finish fourth to qualify for next year's tournament,
they forgot this contradicted a statement on their own website from
March 10 2004. "Should Arsenal or Chelsea win [Big Cup], they will
automatically qualify for next season's competition, but England will
not gain an extra [Big Cup] place, even if they finish outside of the
top four in the Premiership," it read. "In that scenario, the
fourth-placed team in the Premiership will play in next season's Euro
Vase."

Not surprisingly, the page was hastily removed by a Monster
Munch-eating FA techie (although thanks to the marvels of google it
can be viewed here:
http://64.233.161.104/u/football?q=...ontactUs/Postings/2004/03/European_Places.htm).
Meanwhile, when contacted by the Fiver at 11am this morning, the FA
said it would shortly be making a statement. Five hours later, we're
still waiting.

Of course when it comes to bureaucratic bungling, Uefa isn't much
better. For article 1.03 of their Big Cup regulations seems to
suggest that Liverpool could be entitled to play in next season's
competition if they beat AC Milan and finish fifth or sixth in the
Premiership. Or at least the Fiver thinks it does.

It reads: "At the request of the national association concerned, [Big
Cup] title-holders may be entered for this competition, as an
additional representative of that association, if they have not
qualified for [Big Cup] via the top domestic league championship.

"If, in such a case, the title-holders come from an association
entitled to enter four teams for Big Cup, the fourth-placed club in
the top domestic league championship has to be entered for [Euro
Vase]."

Admittedly, Uefa's wording is nearly as woolly as a row of sheep at a
Liberal Democrat party conference, but you can imagine Liverpool's
lawyers having a field day. "This could open a real can of worms,"
one legal expert told the Fiver, something we would venture to
suggest happened a long time ago.

From The Guardian Unlimited's Fiver

 

[Henry]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
But Hwieniawski even if they do become defending champions I really dont think they should automatically be qualified. In fact didnt they abolish that rule for World Cup?

you really don't think that the champion team should get the chance to defend their championship??

lol-I think so about the WC. but the host country gets an automatic place but with the WC it is every four years, and that is a big difference

 

[Lilianna]

++ [ originally posted by HWIENIAWSKI ] ++
Liverpool will not be in the CL next year, and that really sucks! :fero:

but if they win,they will have many chances to be.....
that's why FORZA LIVERPOOL.......

 

[The Pado]

What a load of crap this is. It should be so simple, as I thought the rules were crystal clear.

If for example, Liverpool win the CL and finish 5th in EPL, then Liverpool have earned the automatic bid for being champions and the EPL are free to send the top 4 (Chelsea, Arsenal, MUFC, and Everton).

 

[Menace]

Haha Liverpoo are gonna get screwed

 

[sallyinzaghi]

++ [ originally posted by HWIENIAWSKI ] ++

you really don't think that the champion team should get the chance to defend their championship??

yes I do believe so, simply because one season is different from another. You dont need the defending champion to make CL more interesting. Liverpool knows whats at stake - finish fourth or next season there wont be any CL. If they fail to do so, it is their own doing. I dont see how winning the trophy makes them earn a spot for next season when its all new and fresh.

 

[44BigBert]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
What a load of crap this is. It should be so simple, as I thought the rules were crystal clear.

If for example, Liverpool win the CL and finish 5th in EPL, then Liverpool have earned the automatic bid for being champions and the EPL are free to send the top 4 (Chelsea, Arsenal, MUFC, and Everton).

that's what i thought at the beginning. But it was said that UEFA doesn't want to give the spot for CL to EPL's team more than 4. Given that the top 4 team in the EPL will be qualified, UEFA will consider to cancel the Liverpool's automatic bid even they win in the Final.

this is unfair and ridiculous but this is true that i heard it from my local sport news !!!

 

[Henry]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++


yes I do believe so, simply because one season is different from another. You dont need the defending champion to make CL more interesting. Liverpool knows whats at stake - finish fourth or next season there wont be any CL. If they fail to do so, it is their own doing. I dont see how winning the trophy makes them earn a spot for next season when its all new and fresh.

I still think that the champion should get the chance to defend. obviously, Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot on this one from their performances in the EPL, but I think that should they win, they get a place. the FA in england said last year that if arsenal or chelsea (then in the semis) win the CL, they qualify automatically, so why not Liverpool this year? they certainly have earned it from their performances in the CL this year, despite Wenger's grousing.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

But CL is earned by your performance overall in the league this season, not the tournament itself. I just think its easier if we follow the rules by the book.

Anyway, I know you're a 'pool fan. Congrats on making it to the final. Better them than Chelski

 

[Henry]

yeah, I know that it's your league performances and you can't change the rules at the end. would be very unfair to everton. 'pool probably wont win it anyway, so it's frankly not worth discussing. everton are up 2-0 to nexcastle, so if 'pool lose to arsenal tomorrow they are screwed lol-thanks for the congrats-I hope that pool will be receiving more after the final

 

[Zlatan]

Check this out: even if they win the CL Final, Liverpool will not play Champions League next season!!!



The national FAs nominate their CL participants, and the English FA have announced that they will nominate the first 4 teams at the end of the season. By losing to Arsenal today Liverpool have lost all chances of taking 4th spot, and they wont be able to defend their title should they win it.


Usually, if the team that wins the CL isnt in the first 4 (or how many CL places are allocated) in their domestic championship, they nominate them plus the first 3. However, the English FA has stated they wont do that, and that would mean Everton will play Champions league next season.

However, they might yet change their mind.

 

[JCK]

It is a shame that the defending champion might not be available to defend the title

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by HWIENIAWSKI ] ++
I still think that the champion should get the chance to defend. obviously, Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot on this one from their performances in the EPL, but I think that should they win, they get a place.

I hear you, but I have to respectfully disagree. It's called the Champions League for a reason -- not because you're the champions of a tournament, but you are competing against many of the league champions of Europe.

Everton, for example, should not be punished because they actually took the EPL serious enough but didn't have the fortune of already being in the CL this season. And I don't think you should reward teams for pulling a stunt such as investing everything in your CL performances and neglecting your national league play, just because you can work the system and make it more financially lucrative on TV revenues, etc.

The Champions League "qualifiers" really start with the league play the previous season -- and not with the previous season's tournament. I would argue that league play is a much harder, more gruelling, and fairer test of team performance and character to qualify for the CL. Not that winning the CL is easy, but there's a lot more luck involved. And I think CL slots should handed out the basis of less, not more, luck.

 

[Zlatan]

Yeah. The English FA said they will give the places to the first 4 teams in the Premiership, and that UEFA should give a place to Liverpool, but UEFA has said they cant give 5 spots to any country, because that would mean another country would lose a place. Hence, Liverpool most probably wont play the CL next season.



---------------




FA denies Euro rule change claims
By Mandeep Sanghera


The Football Association insists there has been no change in its Champions League qualification policy.

The FA has decided the Premiership's top four will qualify for next season's Champions League, even if Liverpool win this year's final and finish fifth.

But a story on the FA website last year stated if an English team won the competition the fourth-placed league side would enter the Uefa Cup.

"This was not formal policy agreed by the FA Board," said an FA insider.


Reds suffer Champions League blow

Chelsea beat Arsenal in last year's Champions League quarter-finals before being knocked out at the semi-final stage.

The source, speaking after last year's website story resurfaced, added: "The FA website was simply publishing an interpretation of guidelines published by Uefa.

"This should not be confused with the issues of qualification for next season's Champions League.

"Due to the ambiguity of Uefa's regulations the FA sought clarification from Uefa, who clearly wanted the FA to make a decision.


Premiership standings

"This was debated formally by the FA board twice and the Professional Game Board to establish the clear policy which was announced on Thursday."

The FA has said it will lobby Uefa for an extra place should Liverpool win the Champions League final against AC Milan on 25 May but fail to finish in the Premiership's top four.

The Reds are currently fifth and three points behind Merseyside rivals Everton while sixth-placed Bolton also have a chance of claiming the final Champions League qualification slot.

But Everton are favourites to finish fourth as they have three games left to play with the Reds and Bolton having two to go.


-----------------------



Reds suffer Champions League blow
Everton manager David Moyes (left) and Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez
David Moyes and Rafael Benitez are vying for fourth place
The Football Association has confirmed the Premiership's top four will qualify for next season's Champions League.

That means Liverpool could win the competition this season and not be able to defend their trophy.

Everton are currently fourth, three points ahead of the Reds with a game in hand, but Bolton also have an outside chance of claiming that spot.

But the FA says it will lobby Uefa for a fifth Champions League place if the Reds beat AC Milan in the 25 May final.

The FA's professional game board had recommended on Thursday and it has been endorsed by the main body of English football's governing body.

A statement on the FA website said: "This will not be changed whatever the outcome of Liverpool's Champions League Final in Istanbul on 25 May.


We'll just have to win the Champions League - at least that way Europe can see what a stupid ruling it is
From SS
Have your say on 606

"However, the FA also believes that if Liverpool win in Istanbul and do not finish in the top four in the Premiership, an extra place should be allocated to them in the Champions League next season.

"This is ultimately a matter for Uefa, but the FA will continue to make representations on this issue at the highest level."

Last season the FA stated on its website that if such a scenario cropped up the fourth-placed team would play in the Uefa Cup, but Soho Square officials insisted that was not an official policy.

Everton chief executive Keith Wyness was happy with the decision, although he was quick to stress that they still had work to do to secure the final Champions League spot.

He told the club's website: "Whilst we welcome the announcement from the FA regarding clarification on the fourth place qualification issue, we are still operating in a hypothetical situation with regards to Everton's position."

Uefa regulations stipulate that a maximum of four sides from any one country can take part in the Champions League and European football's rulers say it would not allow five English clubs to take part, although they will look into changing the rule in future.

"You cannot change the rule at this late stage of the season," insisted Uefa spokesman William Gaillard.

"For future seasons, say from 2006-2007, the executive committee may look to change the rule. But for next season the rule stays at it is.

"The English Premiership has four places and it would be unfair to tell another national association that they have lost one of theirs."

Real Madrid finished fifth in La Liga when they won the Champions League in 2000 but they were allowed to defend their title after a ruling by the Spanish FA.

The inclusion of the Bernabeu club came at the expense of Real Zaragoza who finished fourth at the end of the 1999/2000 season.

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From bbc.com

 

[Zlatan]

Damn, I didnt know this had already been discussed