EPL Bullshit (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Seven
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Arsenal suffered their first-ever defeat at the Reebok Stadium as Bolton got their tactics spot on to severely damage their opponents' title hopes.
Bolton's deserved win leaves Arsenal 10 points behind leaders Chelsea.
Stelios Giannakopoulos stole in at the far post to head Bolton's winner after keeper Manuel Almunia failed to collect El-Hadji Diouf's teasing cross.
Robin van Persie came closest for Arsenal, but saw two efforts well-saved by Jussi Jaaskelainen.
However, it was Arsenal's keeper who was the busier as Bolton carried out Sam Allardyce's obvious instructions to attack the visitors aerially.
And a lively Diouf duly provided the questions which Almunia failed to answer.
The Senegal international wasted little time in testing whether the Spaniard is less error prone than Jens Lehmann, the man he has replaced.
Diouf provided an almost constant supply of crosses, as he targeted another chink in the Arsenal defence, the nervous-looking Justin Hoyte at right back.
Time and again Almunia flapped and hesitated - crashing into team-mates Sol Campbell and Patrick Vieira in one instance.
After another missed cross Gary Speed sent a shot over the bar, with the Spaniard stranded.
Credit must be given to Hadji for the teasing cross which led to Bolton's goal, but Campbell will be unhappy with his defending.
First the England defender weakly hooked a half-clearance and then allowed Diuof to get past and deliver his centre.
And Almunia once again proved unreliable as Giannakopoulos was left in space to nod home with ease into an empty net.
Diouf had already delivered a cross into the box which narrowly evaded Kevin Nolan by then.
And later, Nolan almost converted when the entire Arsenal defence, aside from Cole, allowed him to run free on to a loose ball.
Earlier in the day Chelsea moved 10 points clear at the top of the table and set a Premiership record by winning their sixth consecutive match without conceding.
In contrast, Arsenal's defence of their title appears destined to fail because of their porous defence.
But Bolton looked solid at the back - keeping Arsenal at bay in the first half aside from one clear-cut chance in the first half when Van Persie turned and shot straight at Jaaskelainen.
But Arsenal's response after the interval almost resulted in an immediate equaliser.
However, Jaaskalainen kept out Van Persie's close-range shot and Robert Pires headed the rebound wide.
Bolton, though, gradually took control of the game.
And Gianakopolous broke free after latching on to Ricardo Gardner's throughball but steered his effort over the bar.
Arsenal continued to look shaky, and Bolton's fans roared their team's every corner.
Midway through the second half Arsenal brought on Dennis Bergkamp and Jose Antonio Reyes.
Van Persie, who had been well-marshalled by Bruno N'Gotty, and Cesc Fabregas, who had lost his midfield battle with Jay-Jay Okocha, made way.
As the Gunners searched for an elusive equaliser, Bolton launched a counter-attack.
Diouf turned Campbell inside out but pulled his shot wide when it appeared he was about to make certain of the points for Bolton.
Arsenal offered little offensively, with Henry's shot easily smothered when he perhaps should have pulled the ball back to Freddie Ljungberg.
The French striker tried his luck again with a free-kick late on, but Bolton were not to be denied.
Where's Denco?
Bolton's deserved win leaves Arsenal 10 points behind leaders Chelsea.
Stelios Giannakopoulos stole in at the far post to head Bolton's winner after keeper Manuel Almunia failed to collect El-Hadji Diouf's teasing cross.
Robin van Persie came closest for Arsenal, but saw two efforts well-saved by Jussi Jaaskelainen.
However, it was Arsenal's keeper who was the busier as Bolton carried out Sam Allardyce's obvious instructions to attack the visitors aerially.
And a lively Diouf duly provided the questions which Almunia failed to answer.
The Senegal international wasted little time in testing whether the Spaniard is less error prone than Jens Lehmann, the man he has replaced.
Diouf provided an almost constant supply of crosses, as he targeted another chink in the Arsenal defence, the nervous-looking Justin Hoyte at right back.
Time and again Almunia flapped and hesitated - crashing into team-mates Sol Campbell and Patrick Vieira in one instance.
After another missed cross Gary Speed sent a shot over the bar, with the Spaniard stranded.
Credit must be given to Hadji for the teasing cross which led to Bolton's goal, but Campbell will be unhappy with his defending.
First the England defender weakly hooked a half-clearance and then allowed Diuof to get past and deliver his centre.
And Almunia once again proved unreliable as Giannakopoulos was left in space to nod home with ease into an empty net.
Diouf had already delivered a cross into the box which narrowly evaded Kevin Nolan by then.
And later, Nolan almost converted when the entire Arsenal defence, aside from Cole, allowed him to run free on to a loose ball.
Earlier in the day Chelsea moved 10 points clear at the top of the table and set a Premiership record by winning their sixth consecutive match without conceding.
In contrast, Arsenal's defence of their title appears destined to fail because of their porous defence.
But Bolton looked solid at the back - keeping Arsenal at bay in the first half aside from one clear-cut chance in the first half when Van Persie turned and shot straight at Jaaskelainen.
But Arsenal's response after the interval almost resulted in an immediate equaliser.
However, Jaaskalainen kept out Van Persie's close-range shot and Robert Pires headed the rebound wide.
Bolton, though, gradually took control of the game.
And Gianakopolous broke free after latching on to Ricardo Gardner's throughball but steered his effort over the bar.
Arsenal continued to look shaky, and Bolton's fans roared their team's every corner.
Midway through the second half Arsenal brought on Dennis Bergkamp and Jose Antonio Reyes.
Van Persie, who had been well-marshalled by Bruno N'Gotty, and Cesc Fabregas, who had lost his midfield battle with Jay-Jay Okocha, made way.
As the Gunners searched for an elusive equaliser, Bolton launched a counter-attack.
Diouf turned Campbell inside out but pulled his shot wide when it appeared he was about to make certain of the points for Bolton.
Arsenal offered little offensively, with Henry's shot easily smothered when he perhaps should have pulled the ball back to Freddie Ljungberg.
The French striker tried his luck again with a free-kick late on, but Bolton were not to be denied.
Where's Denco?
Even a BBC reporter had this to say about the EPL...
...Everton have done better than people expected but I don't think they're punching above their weight. If you look outside the top three and maybe a full-strength Liverpool side, it's not that strong a league really.
Do you want to know more?...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4150653.stm
Where's Denco? I'll be away for a week from Monday, so I'd appreciate if we can finish this chat by then or at the least reach a suitable impasse.
...Everton have done better than people expected but I don't think they're punching above their weight. If you look outside the top three and maybe a full-strength Liverpool side, it's not that strong a league really.
Do you want to know more?...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4150653.stm
Where's Denco? I'll be away for a week from Monday, so I'd appreciate if we can finish this chat by then or at the least reach a suitable impasse.
You are trying to say that because one English reporter says something then it has confirmed your theory that the EPL is not a good league? So if you find one Italian saying the SerieA aint good, i guess that means its not good either
You know for every Everton, you should put Udinese
Look I love SerieA and years ago I would have told you its head and shoulders better than anyother league but unfortunately its not, the quality has gone down and others have caught up and in some years have surpassed it but now I still think it shades the others but not by much.
For SerieA to be as good as it once was, though as Juve fans you might not like to hear it, we need a far more consistent Inter, a much better Roma, Fiorentina back to where they once were, and the other sides like Udinese, Palermo and the like to be playing as well as they are now but as things stand serieA , save for Milan and Juve is not as good as it should be.
Chxta is making the point that Chelsea are 10 points clear of their rivals but Juve are about 14 points clear of Udinese without actually playing brilliantly and Udinese are third.
Because someone or so many ppl who are not that knowledgeable of leagues worldwide say the Epl is so good and by far the best does not mean you, who watch all leagues and probably know better, should go completely the opposite direction and say its vastly overrated.
Judge things on their merits as in both cases you are both wrong.
The Epl is not the best in the world and its certainly not bad just because of their failings in Europe
You know for every Everton, you should put Udinese
Look I love SerieA and years ago I would have told you its head and shoulders better than anyother league but unfortunately its not, the quality has gone down and others have caught up and in some years have surpassed it but now I still think it shades the others but not by much.
For SerieA to be as good as it once was, though as Juve fans you might not like to hear it, we need a far more consistent Inter, a much better Roma, Fiorentina back to where they once were, and the other sides like Udinese, Palermo and the like to be playing as well as they are now but as things stand serieA , save for Milan and Juve is not as good as it should be.
Chxta is making the point that Chelsea are 10 points clear of their rivals but Juve are about 14 points clear of Udinese without actually playing brilliantly and Udinese are third.
Because someone or so many ppl who are not that knowledgeable of leagues worldwide say the Epl is so good and by far the best does not mean you, who watch all leagues and probably know better, should go completely the opposite direction and say its vastly overrated.
Judge things on their merits as in both cases you are both wrong.
The Epl is not the best in the world and its certainly not bad just because of their failings in Europe
I will refer you to Inter's performance in the Champions League against the likes of Valencia and Werder Bremen. The Nerrazzuri beat Valencia 5-1 at the Mestalla and won their group by a decent margin, looking like one of the best sides in Europe. Then they come to the Serie A and draw against supposedly weaker sides. Those sides in Italy might not be as weak as everyone thinks. Meanwhile in England a team called Arsenal loses to the likes of Inter and Dynamo Kiev in the CL but comes home and wipes all competition aside, going 49 games unbeaten. Does that sound like a strong league to you? It certainly does not and the fact that Arsenal went 49 games unbeaten is something down to lack of domestic competition rather than the skill everybody thinks.
I just do not get you at all, you base your points on one match and circumastances which you seem to ignore, yes Inter beat Valencia 5-1 but they also beat Messina 5-0 and Udinese, 3-1 while also drawing in matches they should have won, they have not lost this season and due to hard luck and poor play they probably do not get results their performances deserve. Maybe everthing clicked on the day they beat Valencia and thats why they won, like that afetr all they drew 0-0 with the same opposition at the San siro when Valencia were not as attacking. Arsenal have always had a problem wiht teams that that put 10 men behind the ball and in the Epl teams just do not do that , hence they win their fair share and they have actually gone to Psv and beat them 4-1, have they not , just as they have gone to Inter and won 5-1, that because these teams came to atack them not to put 10 men behind the ball. Mayeb Arsenal got lucky oin the day and everything clicked into gear, its not as black and white as you are making it out to be and not all the time does the best team win Cl.
The worst Depor team that I can recall got to the semis last season but they have had better sides in the past which have gone out in the first stages, its called luck of the draw. When Milan went that season without losing in SerieA, they did not win the Cl, not because they were not the best team in Europe but who knows what happened. they were the best team in Europe last season but didnt win Cl
When Real Madrid won in 2000, they were beaten both home and away by Bayern in the group stages and played 0-0 with Man united in the Bernabeu where if Andy Cole was not so wasteful man u ought to have won there comfortably but at OT, Keane scores an own goal and all of a sudden man un are looking for 2 goals an off cos open themselves up for counter attack asnd Raul scores 2 more goals and they go on to win Cl beating Bayen along the way but at that time they were going thru such a poor phase
It just happens, does not mean your league is good or bad, it just happens
I have never understood how you can compare what you do at home to what you do elsewhere as circumstances are not the same.
I mean Juve were pretty dominant in the league but they then they go to places like Vigo and lose 4-0, lose to Panathinakos 3-1, Hamburg at home 3-1 and still do well in the league, does this mean serieA is poor
No the 2 competions are different and too many circumastances determine what the outcome is
Also , Arsenal do not have the air of invinciblity in Europe that others have, so the respect or fear is not there which is importatnt as if teams fear you, they tend not to attack you and not likely to beat you but if they do not fear you. then they will attack you and perhaps beat you. Man united have earned the right to be feared and they get results their performances and perhaps ability do not deserve because they now know how to play in E urope, Arsenal do not know how to, yet.
The worst Depor team that I can recall got to the semis last season but they have had better sides in the past which have gone out in the first stages, its called luck of the draw. When Milan went that season without losing in SerieA, they did not win the Cl, not because they were not the best team in Europe but who knows what happened. they were the best team in Europe last season but didnt win Cl
When Real Madrid won in 2000, they were beaten both home and away by Bayern in the group stages and played 0-0 with Man united in the Bernabeu where if Andy Cole was not so wasteful man u ought to have won there comfortably but at OT, Keane scores an own goal and all of a sudden man un are looking for 2 goals an off cos open themselves up for counter attack asnd Raul scores 2 more goals and they go on to win Cl beating Bayen along the way but at that time they were going thru such a poor phase
It just happens, does not mean your league is good or bad, it just happens
I have never understood how you can compare what you do at home to what you do elsewhere as circumstances are not the same.
I mean Juve were pretty dominant in the league but they then they go to places like Vigo and lose 4-0, lose to Panathinakos 3-1, Hamburg at home 3-1 and still do well in the league, does this mean serieA is poor
No the 2 competions are different and too many circumastances determine what the outcome is
Also , Arsenal do not have the air of invinciblity in Europe that others have, so the respect or fear is not there which is importatnt as if teams fear you, they tend not to attack you and not likely to beat you but if they do not fear you. then they will attack you and perhaps beat you. Man united have earned the right to be feared and they get results their performances and perhaps ability do not deserve because they now know how to play in E urope, Arsenal do not know how to, yet.
