Edinson Cavani - ST - PSG (48 Viewers)

[Xperd]

Oh god, that's horrible. Lets not get rid of Giovinco please. And if we do..Giovinco + 8-10M. Max IMO.

Keeping bonucci is more important than Giovinco at this point..

Though both are definitely needed for next season..I hope we give away Matri instead.

 

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[Jem83]

This Juve project had, from the beginning, a transfer kitty of 120 million.

A lot of that is now spent, and according to reports we only have around 30 million of that left (if the sales of Elia, Krasic and Melo goes through), so we're actually close to broke, at the moment.

We have almost spent it all.

BUT...

Raising the 28 million by selling those jackas*es, and inserting two players into the deal (making the total deal worth 50-something-million), is simply another way of reshuffling our original budget. It's not as if we would pay 50-something million ON TOP OF that budget. You see, the players we have already bought, yes, they cost us money, but their sporting rights are an asset to us. And if the club wants to reshuffle our squad, and the way we've spent our budget, by using close to 50 % of it on Cavani, it still wouldn't change a God damn thing. In the end, we only had 120 million to spend. Not a penny more will be spent, and not a penny less.

That last point is especially important to get across to that one dude who started babbling about a financial crisis. The decision to spend 120 million was made 2 years ago. IF we bring Cavani in on a deal worth 50 mill, we would do so on the basis of THAT budget. The original budget. That's why it has to be players + cash. Because we can never exceed that budget, it was sanctioned by (firstly) EXXOR and (secondly) our board.

As soon as everyone grasps this, the discussion should only be about whether or not it's a smart move, purely squad-wise, to bring in Cavani and getting rid of Bonucci and Giovinco.

 

[javi_berti]

This Juve project had, from the beginning, a transfer kitty of 120 million.

A lot of that is now spent, and according to reports we only have around 30 million of that left (if the sales of Elia, Krasic and Melo goes through), so we're actually close to broke, at the moment.

We have almost spent it all.

So much crap in so few words.

 

[Jem83]

Not sure what you're referring to here, but perhaps it was the word "broke"? It was a poor choice of words, because it can be misunderstood. I know Juventus isn't broke as a club, but I was solely speaking about our transfer budget. We have spent a very large portion of that budget. Are you disagreeing with this?

Look at the purchases from the last couple of mercatos. We've spent lots. The Asamoah and Isla deals must also be considered in their entirety. Those two players will cost close to 35 million.

Do you think a top player will arrive without the mentioned player sales?

And one final thing about the budget. It can be increased through income, but not all income will be used to increase the transfer budget. We have debts.

The main point, however, of my original post, was that our transfer budget can be utilized in several different ways, and one of them is to reshuffle the squad, inserting players we've already bought to bring down the cost of expensive players.

 

[javi_berti]

i was referring to the quoted part.
first you mentioned a juve project. what project are you talking about? Juve is not a project, it' an ongoing football or entertainment business. be more considerate in your choice of words.
the second point was your estimated transfer kitty. how would anyone outside of the management and majority ownership really know what it consists of? we can't because it is not a matter of public knowledge.
the third stumbling block you realized yourself. the organization is in no way "broke".
That's what i'd disagree with.

You could be somewhat right on the fact that we cannot afford to invest heavily without selling at some point. From a business point of view it mostly doesn't make sense to keep assets you do not use. so the sales of people like melo, krasic, elia, martinez, ziegler and whoever i can't recall right now is pretty much given. obviously, as long as somebody wants them and at a reasonable rate.

 

[Jem83]

i was referring to the quoted part.
first you mentioned a juve project. what project are you talking about? Juve is not a project, it' an ongoing football or entertainment business. be more considerate in your choice of words.
the second point was your estimated transfer kitty. how would anyone outside of the management and majority ownership really know what it consists of? we can't because it is not a matter of public knowledge.
the third stumbling block you realized yourself. the organization is in no way "broke".
That's what i'd disagree with.

You could be somewhat right on the fact that we cannot afford to invest heavily without selling at some point. From a business point of view it mostly doesn't make sense to keep assets you do not use. so the sales of people like melo, krasic, elia, martinez, ziegler and whoever i can't recall right now is pretty much given. obviously, as long as somebody wants them and at a reasonable rate.

Honestly, are you for real?

1) Juve boardmembers are constantly referring to the "project" since Agnelli took the reigns.
Here is an example of Buffon referring to it: "I like the new Juventus project" ( http://amojuventus.altervista.org/buffon-juve-il-progetto-mi-piace-torniamo-grandi/ )
Here is an example of Agnelli referring to it: "Stay calm, the project goes on" (http://www.tuttosport.com/calcio/se...:+«Juve,+stiamo+calmi.+Il+progetto+va+avanti»)

I know that Juventus as a club isn't a "project", but management sets itself 3-year plans, 5-year plans etc. all the time. Every club does that. When Nasri joined Manchester City, he was excited about their "project". Capisce?

2) The estimated transfer kitty was made public. Juventus S.p.A is a public stock company that has to release financial statements. The transfer kitty for the project was made public by EXOR and Juventus S.p.A.
http://www.cronacaqui.it/sport/15792_mercato-e-bilancio-120-milioni-di-euro-per-rifare-la-juve.html

3) I never said the organization was broke. I used the word "broke", yes, but had you read my post (and understood my post), you would've taken in the context, which was that I was solely talking about the transfer budget. However, I have already admitted that it wasn't the best choice of words.

 

[javi_berti]

Wow, you even took all this time to find quotes to your nonsense. If you had read your last link you'd have realized at least the assumptions of the author. Yes, the article talks about 120 million. But that was just an SEO. In other words additional money from existing and new shareholders. Those 120 million (and it wasn't exactly that amount after the SEO) can be used for whatever the management and BOD see fit. The author of the quoted article assumed that about 80 million would be used for transfer and the rest to decrease debt.
So there we are again. Assumptions from people not in the know. You see what i mean?

Of course they make strategic plans. That's their work. But part of their work is to adjust those plans all the time to new development and trends. There is rarely a 5-year plan that doens't go unchanged from beginning till the end. Project ,as your quotes demonstrate, in football is just basic guidelines of where the club wants to go in the future. Meaning they will invest, get the best players they can and try to win as much as possible. That's about as much as the players know and understand.

 

[Jem83]

All this time? It took me 30 seconds.

Look, we might not know exactly the amount we have to spend down to the very last dime, but we can make pretty clear assumptions based on all of the financial statements released to the press. Do you want this to boil down to being accurate to the very last euro? What are you, an accountant or something? An autist?

You focus so much on these details, that not once have you touched upon the actual points of discussion here.

The point is 1) Cavani CAN be acquired, through reshuffling of the transfer budget by inserting players that we've already payed for into the deal, because the budget is flexible like that, and 2) that this is possible because the club has something called a TRANSFER BUDGET, and that as long as that budget isn't blown, anything can happen.

And what the hell are your contributions to all of this anyway?
"Haha, Juve is no project!"
"Haha, the organization isn't broke!" (as if I ever claimed that it was?)
"Haha, we don't know anything about the transfer kitty!"

What's next? "Haha, there is no spoon!?"

You're obviously trolling.

 

[javi_berti]

To the very last dime? You were wrong by 40 million according to your linked article. That's 33% percent of the whole amount.
I don't want to go into details, because a) we don't know them and b) it doesn't serve any purpose in our amateurish discussions.

Sure can Cavani be acquired. We could even acquire Messi if he somehow was for sale. We just need to get the required funds. There are a number of ways to do this.
The question related to this is how much assets (money and/or players we own) is it worth to get Cavani.

And btw, is it necessary to throw the word autist as an insult? Come on, you're more mature than that.

 

[Jem83]

Look, a lot of juventini speak of the original 120 million budget, it's not something I took out of thin air. Either the above article is right, that it was 120 minus 40 for debts = 80 for the mercato, but the reason me and a bunch of others have thought 120 all along has been articles like this: http://www.tuttosport.com/calcio/serie_a/juventus/2011/05/12-124204/Juve,+arrivano+ben+120+milioni

Perhaps I posted the wrong amount. If I did, I humbly, humbly apologize. But I've heard talk about the original 120 million budget for a long time, and I'm sure there are other posters here who are familiar with that sum. If it's wrong, though, I will certainly go ahead and learn the correct one.

I agree that it isn't necessary to call you an autist, but I was just really irritated that this discussion had to boil down to frickin' numbers, when the points I were trying to convey were others. The number could've been anything.

 

[Juventinho]

People are missing some important facts:

Bonucci is not irreplacable.
Giovinco is not part of this team.
Co-own not permanent so it can be reversed.
Cavani unlike RVP, Falcao, Ghost Rider or any name we have been linked to is PROVEN in Serie A which counts for a lot specially that the other names weren't gonna cost peanuts.
Cavani wage demanda aren't half as high as others especially RVP who isn't proven in Serie A.

 

[Hust]

All this time? It took me 30 seconds.

Look, we might not know exactly the amount we have to spend down to the very last dime, but we can make pretty clear assumptions based on all of the financial statements released to the press. Do you want this to boil down to being accurate to the very last euro? What are you, an accountant or something? An autist?

You focus so much on these details, that not once have you touched upon the actual points of discussion here.

The point is 1) Cavani CAN be acquired, through reshuffling of the transfer budget by inserting players that we've already payed for into the deal, because the budget is flexible like that, and 2) that this is possible because the club has something called a TRANSFER BUDGET, and that as long as that budget isn't blown, anything can happen.

And what the hell are your contributions to all of this anyway?
"Haha, Juve is no project!"
"Haha, the organization isn't broke!" (as if I ever claimed that it was?)
"Haha, we don't know anything about the transfer kitty!"

What's next? "Haha, there is no spoon!?"

You're obviously trolling.

You tell em Jem.

---------- Post added 06.07.2012 at 18:18 ----------

People are missing some important facts:

Bonucci is not irreplacable.
Giovinco is not part of this team.
Co-own not permanent so it can be reversed.
Cavani unlike RVP, Falcao, Ghost Rider or any name we have been linked to is PROVEN in Serie A which counts for a lot specially that the other names weren't gonna cost peanuts.
Cavani wage demanda aren't half as high as others especially RVP who isn't proven in Serie A.

Wait, how is Gio not part of the team?

 

[Juventinho]

Gio is not part of Conte's squad we are not relying on him because he did not play yet, it's not an issue to replace him at this point and as i said it's co-own so we could be selling him again next year or get him back.

 

[Juventinho]

Also the people calling Cavani overrated for this....

Gio is as old and since he was 21 he was a potential now at 25 he still is, some insist on comparing him to Alex while Alex was already a beast at his age.

Perhaps Gio is the overrated player in this whole deal?

 

[javi_berti]

Look, a lot of juventini speak of the original 120 million budget, it's not something I took out of thin air. Either the above article is right, that it was 120 minus 40 for debts = 80 for the mercato, but the reason me and a bunch of others have thought 120 all along has been articles like this: http://www.tuttosport.com/calcio/serie_a/juventus/2011/05/12-124204/Juve,+arrivano+ben+120+milioni

Perhaps I posted the wrong amount. If I did, I humbly, humbly apologize. But I've heard talk about the original 120 million budget for a long time, and I'm sure there are other posters here who are familiar with that sum. If it's wrong, though, I will certainly go ahead and learn the correct one.

I agree that it isn't necessary to call you an autist, but I was just really irritated that this discussion had to boil down to frickin' numbers, when the points I were trying to convey were others. The number could've been anything.

I know that a lot of people took this number as the transfer money and already when this "fund-raiser" happened it tried to explain the real meaning of it.
A lot of sports journalists rarely have real knowledge of business or finance. That is why they confuse these things. For the casual fan that might be ok. I just wanted to prevent further confusion about this issue. In the end folks just take those 120 million substract some amount of money of this mercato's transfers and whine why we could not buy enough players they had hoped for.

I got the intent of your original post and agree to a certain extent with it. The idea behind my post was to clarify the misconceptions related to that "cash injection".

And there is no correct transfer budget to know. At least not for us bystanders. We can roughly guess how much we might spend in one mercato.

 

[PieroKing]

Also the people calling Cavani overrated for this....

Gio is as old and since he was 21 he was a potential now at 25 he still is, some insist on comparing him to Alex while Alex was already a beast at his age.

Perhaps Gio is the overrated player in this whole deal?

Who is comparing him to Alex???

They should be kicked out of here!

 

[Klin]

Forza Jem!

We should let him come to one of our nude pool parties, Cummy.

 

[Xperd]

people arguing over something which will never happen

me like

 

[ALC]

Gio's last season was probably the best he'll ever have.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Gio's last season was probably the best he'll ever have.

You the best I ever had.