Doping!!!!!!!!!!!!! (2 Viewers)

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#21
This again... I'm getting so tired of this shit!

What's with all the hype about the players who admitted to have used a LEGAL drug?

And if they did use illegal drugs, how's anyone gonna prove it??? This is one of those "my-word-against-yours" trials, and that's bull.

They bust in and find alot of drugs, but all legal... no proof at all.

Isn't there supposed to be proof in order to have a trial?

I don't get it... this is just nuts and probably set up by Sensi and his Roma monkeys :D
 

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Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#24
no way. This trial isn't really news, it's been going on for a while and the players haven't seemed distracted by it so far.
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#25
IMO to try to take doping away from soccer is the right thing.
The point is that FIFA, UEFA and all the federation has to do it not just FIGC.
Zeman was the first to speak about the problem, and he really could avoid to say the names of who he "suspected" had an innatural body change but all the trial regarding Juve isn't up 4 Zeman exit, that's sure. The point is that 3 Juve players weare booked with some strange value in their bload (hight "ematocrito"). This may be caused also from something different than doping so it is not the case of accusing anyone, but also if in soccer ther's not a specific rule in some other sports peaple with the same value are stopped from the races.
I think that we have to keep this doping trials like something "positive" cause if the controls will be more accurate it will be better 4 everybody.
Right now, with just the urine exams, it is impossible to book who use EPO, if they will do also the blood exams after the matches that will be booked too.
I just hope that also the other federations will do the same and I also hope that soon the antidoping will be done on all the players who go in the field and not just to 2 a team like it is right now. Like this everything will be clean and clear and there will not be any "suspect" anymore.
 

Stu

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
17,557
#26
++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++
Actually it is true. Juve are on trial, but not because doping per se, but more like unethical use of chemical supstances I think. When Juve's facilities were raided by the police (and yes, that did happen) they found enough chemicals, medicine for a medium sized farmacy (which is a lot for a football club). The most debatted drug I think is creatine, which basically raises the level of iron in the blood, and as iron is used to transfer oxygen through the blood and to various parts of the body, it increases endurance and stamina. It's not illegal except in France, and Del Piero, Deschamps and ZIdane have already admitted of taking it. Anyway, dont take my word on any of this as I'm not an expert, but I dont think we're in real danger because of this trial. If we were it'd get much more media attention than it has, and the matter probably would be resolved by now.
If taking this drug, creatine, is only illegal in France then why should our players, or the club for that matter, be taken to court? :rolleyes:
 

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#27
++ [ originally posted by Godot ] ++


If taking this drug, creatine, is only illegal in France then why should our players, or the club for that matter, be taken to court? :rolleyes:
Well the trial isn't about the creatine. It's about the use of illegal drugs - which they can't prove...
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
#28
I totally agree with mate, and couldn't have said it myself:):thumb:.
Firstly, Zeman without strong evidence to back his statement should not have made such allegation. Instead of being bitter, Zeman should be thankful that Juve, and especially Alex for not taking him to the court. Whatever the verdict, there is no denying that Alex's image is tainted, and so is Juve's reputation-only to enforce as cheating club.:fero:. There will always be those who point out not on the mental strenght and physical, technical ability of Juve players but on referees, and performance enhancing substances.:mad:.
Look at MLB in USA, sooner or later there will be a regulation relating to drug use which happened without public allegation on specific players. (Even if there has been public suspicion on McGuire, and Bonds).
Secondly, FIFA not FIGC should take the matter into the hand. This is because there will much mroe publicity if FIFA becomes involved, and, furthermore, can co-ordinate and set common standards on doping. The problem with current regulation is that there isn't a set common standard, as Godot mentioned. In my knowledge, the level of substance in Italia is a lot lower than the level set in England, or Spain, which means that Italian tests are far more stricter than other countries. Secondly, blood test should be taken so that there is no doubt on the decisions made. Davids, and Couto case, IMO, has been badly dealt, and not only it failed to set the standard on the issue, but also created image, IMO, that certain Italian clubs will do anything to get its stars *out of trouble* inspite of thier misdeeds. There has to be no confusion, IMO.
Thirdly, if FIGC alone takes the issue into their hand, without other FAs following the example, then Italian FA is literally shooting their own foot. Because 1)They will be the only ones finding players who are doping, which will make Serie A only league that is using illegal drugs 2)They put themselves in disadvantage in European Competetions- in which its teams performances are crucial in order to compete with other leagues in terms of drawing the money and attention from other non-involved countries. After all, why Italia has the reputation where players are taking drugs? This is because Italian FA is stamping out, while others aren't following the example. Doesn't Spanish and English team have far tougher schedules with longer seasons, and more matches, not to mention smaller squads, and yet performed better in the European competetion. Isn't this unlogical? I am not saying that EPL and La Liga definetely taking drugs, since I can't prove it but there are reasons to speculate teams "could" be doing it, and unless their respective FAs take action there will always be accusations flying across, and teams will have incentives to cheat.
This is crucial because, in the end, the ones who suffer most will be the players themselves. If my knowledge is correct, there are many former East-German athletes suffering from diabetes and other illnesses for doping and some of which have died from it.
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#29
++ [ originally posted by Kaliman ] ++


Well the trial isn't about the creatine. It's about the use of illegal drugs - which they can't prove...
Yes isn't about creatine and is actually about 1998. The 3 players weare found with "hight ematocrito" so I guess they are suspected 4 EPO. I also think they cannot prouve anything and I guess they do not even wisch to doi it cause it was 5 years ago; I think they are just investigating to find out some medical practics who are used in soccer.
Anycase when they will arrive at eh end of this trial, they will let us now what they found out, now is useless to think too mutch about this. I just hope all this mess will pusch doctors and players of all the teams to use medicines more carefully and FIGC to do more accurate doping controls.
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#30
++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
I totally agree with mate, and couldn't have said it myself:):thumb:.
Firstly, Zeman without strong evidence to back his statement should not have made such allegation. Instead of being bitter, Zeman should be thankful that Juve, and especially Alex for not taking him to the court. Whatever the verdict, there is no denying that Alex's image is tainted, and so is Juve's reputation-only to enforce as cheating club.:fero:. There will always be those who point out not on the mental strenght and physical, technical ability of Juve players but on referees, and performance enhancing substances.:mad:.
In a way I respect Zeman, cause he say what he think with no fear, but in this doping case looks really like he is looking too mutch 4 media speaking about him.
We give too many importance 4 him, the trial is not cause of him, they don't take peaple to court cause somebody say that he think they have not natural muscles.

++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
Look at MLB in USA, sooner or later there will be a regulation relating to drug use which happened without public allegation on specific players. (Even if there has been public suspicion on McGuire, and Bonds).
Secondly, FIFA not FIGC should take the matter into the hand. This is because there will much mroe publicity if FIFA becomes involved, and, furthermore, can co-ordinate and set common standards on doping. The problem with current regulation is that there isn't a set common standard, as Godot mentioned. In my knowledge, the level of substance in Italia is a lot lower than the level set in England, or Spain, which means that Italian tests are far more stricter than other countries. Secondly, blood test should be taken so that there is no doubt on the decisions made. Davids, and Couto case, IMO, has been badly dealt, and not only it failed to set the standard on the issue, but also created image, IMO, that certain Italian clubs will do anything to get its stars *out of trouble* inspite of thier misdeeds. There has to be no confusion, IMO.
Thirdly, if FIGC alone takes the issue into their hand, without other FAs following the example, then Italian FA is literally shooting their own foot. Because 1)They will be the only ones finding players who are doping, which will make Serie A only league that is using illegal drugs 2)They put themselves in disadvantage in European Competetions- in which its teams performances are crucial in order to compete with other leagues in terms of drawing the money and attention from other non-involved countries. After all, why Italia has the reputation where players are taking drugs? This is because Italian FA is stamping out, while others aren't following the example. Doesn't Spanish and English team have far tougher schedules with longer seasons, and more matches, not to mention smaller squads, and yet performed better in the European competetion. Isn't this unlogical? I am not saying that EPL and La Liga definetely taking drugs, since I can't prove it but there are reasons to speculate teams "could" be doing it, and unless their respective FAs take action there will always be accusations flying across, and teams will have incentives to cheat.
This is crucial because, in the end, the ones who suffer most will be the players themselves. If my knowledge is correct, there are many former East-German athletes suffering from diabetes and other illnesses for doping and some of which have died from it.
Also in Italy we had some soccerplayers who got sick probably 4 doping. There are so many doping trilas, this one regarding Juve isn't the only one.
It is true that beeing Italy the only place in which there is all this searching Italian soccer image may be damaged, but I think is worth it, sport has to be cleaned from drugs, I just hope that other countries will take the examples.
Btw those doping trials are not holded by FICG but from ordinary justice, I think that FICG was obliged to speack about incrasing the controls because the situation is now out of their control, IMO they wuould avoid to do anything it they could.
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
#31
I am pretty sure Juve and Alex can take Zeman court for the mental suffering and financial loss due to damages in reputation. Whether Juve can win or not is another matter, but there is strong case for it.;).

Anyway, I agree, it is worth trying to solve this issue because in the end players health and lives are at stake! This is why I am so furious with English FA, La Liga, FIFA, UEFA for practically ignoring issue. Also their action are signicantly damaging Italian league's reputation, for doing good things!:groan:.
Also, as a person who only got the brief news on Stam, Davids, case, I don't know too much about what happened. But the impression I got was that Juve, Lazio were able to buy very good lawyers, and were able to reduce the sentence not buy proving players are "innocent" but on the probability of unlikely and dodgy events. i.e. from eating a Chicken.
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#32
++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
I am pretty sure Juve and Alex can take Zeman court for the mental suffering and financial loss due to damages in reputation. Whether Juve can win or not is another matter, but there is strong case for it.;).
I think Vialli wanted to! Don't know why at the end he didn't....

++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++Anyway, I agree, it is worth trying to solve this issue because in the end players health and lives are at stake! This is why I am so furious with English FA, La Liga, FIFA, UEFA for practically ignoring issue. Also their action are signicantly damaging Italian league's reputation, for doing good things!:groan:.
O yes! I'm agree!

++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++Also, as a person who only got the brief news on Stam, Davids, case, I don't know too much about what happened. But the impression I got was that Juve, Lazio were able to buy very good lawyers, and were able to reduce the sentence not buy proving players are "innocent" but on the probability of unlikely and dodgy events. i.e. from eating a Chicken.
I have no clue about what it happened too... also Guardiola always denied that he took nandrolone but he afforted the whole banning. Maybe sometimes is true that some food or medicine can mess up the doping controls, in Davids case I think it was said it was due to a very strong eye drop. In Guardiola case don't know, but he do not really look like a nandrolone-man, he is one of the skynniest players around.
Stam IMO looks pretty like a Nandrolone man, he looks like an alien :D But now I'm doing worst than Zeman :D:D:D
I really have no clue too about what it happened...
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
#33
I agree that Zeman despite his mistakes did make doping big issue. It even came out on news in Japan.;).
Nonethless the way in which he did it was completely wrong.

BTW, I am not at all satisfied by all the doping cases because some of the excuses (that I read, anyway but I am pretty sure there were stronger arguments), were pathetic. One of the best one was Bucchi getting whatever the substance is called in the body higher than allowed levels because he ate a chicken which night contained simialr substance to nadrolone couple of days before the game.:doh:.
Also, second worse argument was that after heavy sports the body naturally produces nandrolone substance. Yeah, that is why some players, i.e. de Boer was many times over the limit.:doh:.

I also don't think Guardiola took the drug reguarly because he isn't a type of player who relies on his physcial skills. He is all about brain, and technique. However, I do think there could have been some chance that he may have taken it because he was out for a long time and it is hard to control fitness level by training by himself.
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
#34
OMG, they actually give creatine to babies!!! I just saw it on E.R. The redhead limping doctor said "give him 50 cc of creatine"!!! :eek:
 

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#35
++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++
OMG, they actually give creatine to babies!!! I just saw it on E.R. The redhead limping doctor said "give him 50 cc of creatine"!!! :eek:
well arcording to the study's done on creatine, it shouldn't be dangerous to use... so why not if it helps?
 

Lilianna

Senior Member
Apr 3, 2003
15,969
#39
++ [ originally posted by Dino ] ++
Doping!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry to say this guys, but at the moment juve are involved in a case and we are being accused of doping from 1994 to 1998. The players accused include........

Tacchinardi
Del Piero
Conte
Pessotto
Ferrara
Vialli
Birindelli
Zidane
Ravanelli
Di Livio
Deschamps
etc
Also people like agricola, giraudo and lippi


So, do you think that juve did cheat and doped our players?
tacchinardi..:confused:":down:
 

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