did del piero ACTUALLY fill baggio's shoes? (At Juve) (1 Viewer)

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
This thread is v.interesting and our opinions are not as diferent as they look.

My opinion?
Once again i repeat Baggio was the last great player...

DP is a true Juventino,probably more Juve at heart than Baggio,
he is the modern symbol of Juve,
he will become a legend so us Ronaldinio,Zidanne and others from the new generations,
but i have seen Baggio back then, i was joung but i will never forget him...
 

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Codino

The Rival
Jul 21, 2002
1,394
denco, please... vialli shouldnt of even been a starter for juventus. his years were past him. not saying he was a shit player, but not good enough for juventus IMO.
 
OP
HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2005
19,138
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #244
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    And do you know why Baggio outshone his teammates? Well its because Trapatoni built his team around his talents, everything at the time was geared towards making Baggio most effective. The likes of Vialli were played outta position to make Baggio shine. At one time , Vialli actually played in midfield.
    Now you know Trapatoni, same he did for Totti, its all well and good for the individual, but it did not help the team
    Lippi came and decided , team will take precedence over individual talents, though he did favour his pet pupil, Del Piero
    Now which of these 2 coaches was the more succesfull in this period? I will let you decide
    lippi pretty much built his team around del piero too.del piero was untouchable when lippi was at the helm and this is why he was an added chance of making the wc squad with italy even if he doesnt play all that regularly.
    and i dont remember trappatoni making players play out of position to help totti in the national team.
    i never saw trappatoni during his 80's years for juventus as i was too young and i think the question of who was the better coach amongst lippi and trappatoni is a subjective one.
    but nevertheless,i dont think baggio had enough world class players around him to outshine him even if they wanted to.
    baggio had people like di livio,vialli etc around him.
    del piero had people like inzaghi,zidane etc around him.
    i do belive that del piero had the greater set of players around him when compared to baggio.
     

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
    ++ [ originally posted by axlrose85 ] ++


    lippi pretty much built his team around del piero too.del piero was untouchable when lippi was at the helm and this is why he was an added chance of making the wc squad with italy even if he doesnt play all that regularly.
    and i dont remember trappatoni making players play out of position to help totti in the national team.
    i never saw trappatoni during his 80's years for juventus as i was too young and i think the question of who was the better coach amongst lippi and trappatoni is a subjective one.
    but nevertheless,i dont think baggio had enough world class players around him to outshine him even if they wanted to.
    baggio had people like di livio,vialli etc around him.
    del piero had people like inzaghi,zidane etc around him.
    i do belive that del piero had the greater set of players around him when compared to baggio.
    Lippi did not build his ream around Dp, he just made it less Baggio dependent by making it more of a team effort. The year he came in, he had Paolo Sousa being magnificent, Ravanelli , excellent Dp, up and coming but brilliant and Vialli out of this world

    Under Trapatoni, everything it seemed was geared into making Baggio the focal point of the team, the likes of Vialli and Ravanelli were there to either take defenders from the centre so that Baggio could come in and score which he did magnificently.
    Now all this talk about Baggio having inferior players around him is garbage because when he did have inferior players like Galli, and the like, Baggio himself was not playing all that well for Juve .
    It was later when the likes of Moeller, Platt, Kohler, Julio Cesar came into the team with Trapatoni at the helm that Baggio became phenomenal.

    Baggio went to Milan with equally world class players like the ones you keep saying that Dp has around him but he did not do much there now did he? Why, because there was no way they were gonna build that team around his talents. Same goes for when he was at Inter.
    So whats to say he would have shone with Zidane and co in the same team with him.
    Baggio whether you like to hear it or not was a great individual but perhaps not so good when asked to be incoporated into a team pattern.

    Is Baggio the greatest player to play for Juve? Perhaps, but I would Dp higher as a Juve player
    Is Baggio of the best ever to play for juve? Undoubtedly
    I never saw Riva and Mazzolli, Rivera and players of that ilk but I would say that Baggio was the best non defender i ever saw wearing the blue of Italy

    Now to Il Codino, How can you possibly say that about Vialli? He more than anyone brought about our first scudetto after so many years of being in the doldrums and it was his inspiration as skipper that brough our second and so far last European Cup. He may not have the natural talents of his erstwhile colleagues like Dp and Baggio, but for leadership and inspiration well he matches them and when it comes to leadership surpassed both of them
     

    lestat_1987

    Senior Member
    Aug 31, 2005
    1,373
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    How can you possibly say that about Vialli? He more than anyone brought about our first scudetto after so many years of being in the doldrums and it was his inspiration as skipper that brough our second and so far last European Cup. He may not have the natural talents of his erstwhile colleagues like Dp and Baggio, but for leadership and inspira tion well he matches them and when it comes to leadership surpassed both of them
    On the spot. He was an amazing leader, shouting and guiding the 90 minutes of the game.
     

    Codino

    The Rival
    Jul 21, 2002
    1,394
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    Now to Il Codino, How can you possibly say that about Vialli? He more than anyone brought about our first scudetto after so many years of being in the doldrums and it was his inspiration as skipper that brough our second and so far last European Cup. He may not have the natural talents of his erstwhile colleagues like Dp and Baggio, but for leadership and inspiration well he matches them and when it comes to leadership surpassed both of them
    im sure u saw much more of him, because u watched juve more than me. but i just couldnt see him as good as alot of people said he was.

    im definatly not doubting his leadership skills, he was a loud mouth hahaha, but i repeat, i didnt think he was all that good. but we all have our diff opinions.
     

    Zizou

    Senior Member
    Apr 21, 2003
    3,965
    To be honest I was glad at the time when we swapped Vialli-Ravanelli for Amoruso-Vieri-Boksic.

    Vialli was a great leader (better than DP and Baggio imo), but he only showed his worth during the 1995 Scudetto and at times even during the CL season in his Juve spell. He never showed the goal scoring skills he had at Sampdoria and let's be fair, Zeman was right when he said that Vialli all of a sudden improved his physical condition which obviously helped him achieve that great season.
     

    Codino

    The Rival
    Jul 21, 2002
    1,394
    ++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
    To be honest I was glad at the time when we swapped Vialli-Ravanelli for Amoruso-Vieri-Boksic.

    Vialli was a great leader (better than DP and Baggio imo), but he only showed his worth during the 1995 Scudetto and at times even during the CL season in his Juve spell. He never showed the goal scoring skills he had at Sampdoria and let's be fair, Zeman was right when he said that Vialli all of a sudden improved his physical condition which obviously helped him achieve that great season.
    exactly.


    but, great player at sampdoria. noone can take that away from him.
     
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    HelterSkelter

    HelterSkelter

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2005
    19,138
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  • Thread Starter #256
    vialli was a player who had great expectations associated with him but he fell short of them.ive read interviews,books etc preceeding the 1990 world cup where vialli was dubbed as the next paolo rossi,he was called italy's secret weapon.and he just dissapeared into nothingness.
    his status at juventus or with the azzuri doesnt even come close to being called a 'legend'.i daresay players like inzaghi and trezeguet are a greater and more prominent part of our history than vialli.
    no disrespect towards the player,but i dont think he was anything out of the ordinary.i never saw him during his sampdoria spell,and i only watched him at juventus when his career was about to end in turin so my judgdement could be faulty.
    the much of him ive seen doesnt convince me that he was a LEGEND.he was a good player and a great leader.pretty much like deschamps.
     

    Zizou

    Senior Member
    Apr 21, 2003
    3,965
    A good example is that the 1990 world cup had to be his place to shine , but he was overshadowed by Schillaci...that should say a lot!
     
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    HelterSkelter

    HelterSkelter

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2005
    19,138
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #258
    even baggio outshined him with that amazing goal against the czech.i cant the commentary outta my head

    "schillaci..zanini..now baggio....schillaci's in an offside position if its delviered to him there..but still..baggio..oh yes..OH YES..WHAT A GOAL BY BAGGGIOOOOOOO"
     

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
    After reading such trash about Vialli, I am very sorry i got into this discussion in the first place. it certainly would not happen again
     
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    HelterSkelter

    HelterSkelter

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2005
    19,138
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  • Thread Starter #260
    trash?
    however you take it.
    it all depends on your perception.
    for some vialli could be greatest player on the planet,for some he could be pure crap.for eg some people call pele the greatest ever,some argue that him not playing in europe means that he does not deserve such a title.
    it all subjective.
    no one's trashing vialli.some people just think that he wasnt as great as others think he was.
     

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