Dennis Aogo - LB - Hamburger SV. (22 Viewers)

[JuveJay]

Yes it is a problem, giving youth a chance, although I still think that is because of the restrictive tactical side of the game that suits older players. Something needs to change in the whole process, but at least coaches like Gasperini, Prandelli and Del Neri see, it's not a total disaster. 'Dying' is also a strong word, league success goes in circles, just look through history. Serie A had a phenomenal 1990's in terms of trophies, even a couple of CL's in the 00's where Spain then England were dominating, it'll come back even if it might take some time.

 

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[Bjerknes]

I think this is taken too seriously around these parts: age factor.

Aogo is not a kid and saying something like that can be good but at the same time bad. C.Ronaldo was what, 19, when he started playing regularly for Manchester United. This guy is 23 and he should be ready to make a step for the next level.

That age thing is only taken under consideration in Italy though and I find it strange. You don't see it in England, Spain or even in France. But in Italy, yes. People should be 27 when they are mature enough to play here? It's also how Ranieri has described Menez and his situation when he said "he should have played at least 200 matches in France".

IMO that's all load of rubbish. And it's one of the reasons young Italian players are vanishing and Italian football is dying. They prefer experience and stuff but we've seen Germany spank England.

Wake up people, give youth the chance. This logic is only used in Serie A and it's why it has stared to collapse.

Well said.

 

[JuveJay]

Even if a team like Lazio fielded their starting 11 they wouldn't win the competition.

Still it's not other's team problem but rather an italian problem, if i was genoa,lazio,palermo,sampdoria's manager i would atleast try and win the EL.

They think that even if they manage to reach UCL they'll have a chance, well they won't and will end up playing EL again.. so it all comes down to winning EL or Coppa for them, I'll definitely go for EL in that case. They're just plain stupid.

Teams like Werder Bremen or Wolfsburg relish an European title more than a meaningless domestic cup.

True, but they don't need to win the trophy, just improve their points tallies and put the same into the competition. To be fair it's not just Italian teams who don't see it favourably, English and Spanish sides have fielded weaker sides early on too, but of course once they got further they started to play the full sides.

Once Fulham got past Shakhtar they started fielding their full side in it, and by the time they played Juventus they were playing their first team in the EL and changing 8-11 players for their PL games They went from 7th to finishing 14th. You would never, ever see that in Italy. If a team is in 7th they are going to try and stay there or improve, because the league is close and a few losses and you can be in real trouble.

 

[JCK]

Even if a team like Lazio fielded their starting 11 they wouldn't win the competition.

Still it's not other's team problem but rather an italian problem, if i was genoa,lazio,palermo,sampdoria's manager i would atleast try and win the EL.

They think that even if they manage to reach UCL they'll have a chance, well they won't and will end up playing EL again.. so it all comes down to winning EL or Coppa for them, I'll definitely go for EL in that case. They're just plain stupid.

Teams like Werder Bremen or Wolfsburg relish an European title more than a meaningless domestic cup.

People like JuveJay and awit are like the Italian managers that think nothing exists other than Serie A, they think that all other competitions are rubbish compared to the Italian league, they think that all other leagues are inferior to theirs, they think that the Italian league is the best there is and the best there will ever be. And guess what? This mentality is destroying the league more than it already is.

 

[JuveJay]

Ok I'll humour you, putting ideas in my mind instead of words in my mouth. Ok not me directly, people like me, I'll remember that this time. People like me.

 

[Hust]

Dusan...you are preaching to the choir here about youth.

 

[JCK]

I didn't even put ideas in your mind. You're so touchy.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Jeez Dooz you think I have a problem with giving young players a chance? ME?????? I thought you know me
I just think he can just stay one more year at Hamburg where he plays regular since years and can work and improve even more than he already did.
But that he is part of this NT should say enough about his abilities and his potential.

Just look at Dortmund if you need to see how to use young players.

I know it's you Sab but I think you also know how people actually support that idea of having older and more experienced players. It's like when we sign a 20yo and 15 freakin' minutes later somebody asks for a co-ownership or a loan to Siena or somewhere...it's like what the fuck? While at the same time we have the likes of Salihamidzic etc.

I don't see it as a positive thing. There are so many players who were given a chance to prove their worth even before they hit 20 and so many did it. You can see the same in Italy but it's like one player every 2 years. There was Pato and now there's Pastore.
This guy is 23 while our left side is weak as hell so he'd be a starter. We're not playing in the CL this season so that's one thing less for him to worry about. He doesn't have any competition though, we don't have old Zambrotta here. He's good to go, he did what he could in Germany, it's time to make a big step in his career.

 

[JCK]

Dooz, who gave me the latest REP? and the one that says: Spot on, forza Poulsen

 

[Bjerknes]

Yes it is a problem, giving youth a chance, although I still think that is because of the restrictive tactical side of the game that suits older players.

Whatever it is, it's wrong. To not use better talent just for misguided tactical purposes is inane.

And lets be honest here -- tactically, Italian managed teams haven't been so great as of late. Juventus over the past five years have been horrendous tactically, being unable to switch out of the same lethargic play. Sure, we might have been solid defensively under Capello, but tactically we were not. It's more of a myth than anything else.

Sacrificing young talent for defensive strength is another dumb thing to do because the whole purpose of the game is to score goals and win. Some Italian managers like those you mentioned are a bit more open, but you can't teach old dogs new tricks.

'Dying' is also a strong word, league success goes in circles, just look through history.

More like already flatlining.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Dooz, who gave me the latest REP? and the one that says: Spot on, forza Poulsen

\m/_Bianconero and forza Poulsen said kongen73

 

[SABSAB]

I know it's you Sab but I think you also know how people actually support that idea of having older and more experienced players. It's like when we sign a 20yo and 15 freakin' minutes later somebody asks for a co-ownership or a loan to Siena or somewhere...it's like what the fuck? While at the same time we have the likes of Salihamidzic etc.

I don't see it as a positive thing. There are so many players who were given a chance to prove their worth even before they hit 20 and so many did it. You can see the same in Italy but it's like one player every 2 years. There was Pato and now there's Pastore.
This guy is 23 while our left side is weak as hell so he'd be a starter. We're not playing in the CL this season so that's one thing less for him to worry about. He doesn't have any competition though, we don't have old Zambrotta here. He's good to go, he did what he could in Germany, it's time to make a big step in his career.

I'm all with you:smile: I just don't want him in this mess that Juve is right now.

 

[JuveJay]

It's finding the right guy, not just giving youth a chance because it's the future. Look at Inter's team from last season, the treble winners, how many young players?

Our biggest problem is that we are not competing soon enough, with a team full of young players I wouldn't expect us to seriously be challenging for the title over a league season for 3-4 years, I don't know if people can wait that long. Maybe we should have done that in 2007 instead of going for 27+ players like Tiago, Almiron, Andrade, Poulsen, Iaquinta etc.

 

[Bjerknes]

People like JuveJay and awit are like the Italian managers that think nothing exists other than Serie A, they think that all other competitions are rubbish compared to the Italian league, they think that all other leagues are inferior to theirs, they think that the Italian league is the best there is and the best there will ever be. And guess what? This mentality is destroying the league more than it already is.

 

[Dostoevsky]

I'm all with you:smile: I just don't want him in this mess that Juve is right now.

Like in my bed? All in my bed?

Mess? We were in mess, hopefully, due to our awful organization and bad management. This Juve is not going to be a World Class but dare I say much better on field, competitive and actually playing football. We're doing fine so far, adding depth, youth and more pace. Hopefully we're gonna sign a couple of more that will make us stronger on the flank and up front and that's it. We deserve to watch some good Juve finally and dance together in the Live thread, instead of cursing and crying.

 

[JuveJay]

Whatever it is, it's wrong. To not use better talent just for misguided tactical purposes is inane.

And lets be honest here -- tactically, Italian managed teams haven't been so great as of late. Juventus over the past five years have been horrendous tactically, being unable to switch out of the same lethargic play. Sure, we might have been solid defensively under Capello, but tactically we were not. It's more of a myth than anything else.

Sacrificing young talent for defensive strength is another dumb thing to do because the whole purpose of the game is to score goals and win. Some Italian managers like those you mentioned are a bit more open, but you can't teach old dogs new tricks.

More like already flatlining.

We had this discussion before, generalising Italian coaches based on nationality is pretty sad. There are coaches from Spain and Portugal who play more pragmatic football with older players than anyone in Italy. There doesn't have to be a direct link with tactical awareness and defensive football either, it's all over the pitch.

 

[Bjerknes]

We had this discussion before, generalising Italian coaches based on nationality is pretty sad. There are coaches from Spain and Portugal who play more pragmatic football with older players than anyone in Italy. There doesn't have to be a direct link with tactical awareness and defensive football either, it's all over the pitch.

It isn't sad when it's the truth.

 

[JuveJay]

So all Italian coaches play defensive football and play old players, right.

 

[SABSAB]

Like in my bed? All in my bed?

Mess? We were in mess, hopefully, due to our awful organization and bad management. This Juve is not going to be a World Class but dare I say much better on field, competitive and actually playing football. We're doing fine so far, adding depth, youth and more pace. Hopefully we're sign a couple of more that will make us stronger on the flank and up front and that's it. We deserve to watch some good Juve finally and dance together in the Live thread, instead of cursing and crying.

Sex. Now.

 

[Nicholas]

Sab!