Dennis Aogo - LB - Hamburger SV. (9 Viewers)

[awit]

So if the German league is weaker than the Italian, why is the Italian losing it's position in the European rankings? Why are the German teams doing better in regional competitions than their Italian counterparts?

I will show you an article, I would really appreciate it if you read it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/apr/11/bundesliga-premier-league

I read the article and I already knew that Bundesliga has more spectators than other leagues and that they have a lot of young players playing. What I don't know is what that has to do with anything I've said in this thread.

 

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[JCK]

I read the article and I already knew that Bundesliga has more spectators than other leagues and that they have a lot of young players playing. What I don't know is what that has to do with anything I've said in this thread.

A league with lots of spectators, young players and money is a base for a strong league. You are saying that the Bundesliga is inferior to Serie A and I am trying to prove to you otherwise.

 

[Hust]

Bundesliga is getting stronger and will continue to do so. Germans have always been excellent with finances, fan base, fair league and healthy competition. Ze Germans just have a way of "smart business" and it is showing in their national team and young players.

I have no idea what point I was trying to make, I just started typing...no response necessary.

 

[awit]

A league with lots of spectators, young players and money is a base for a strong league. You are saying that the Bundesliga is inferior to Serie A and I am trying to prove to you otherwise.

I agree that the future of the Bundesliga looks really good. The only thing I was saying is that at the moment I don't think that the level of Bundesliga is as good as Serie A or other European top leagues until I see players like Dzeko Diego Grafite and Gomez (or Molinaro!) playing great elsewhere.

 

[JuveJay]

So if the German league is weaker than the Italian, why is the Italian losing it's position in the European rankings? [/url]

Because the German sides are doing better in the Europa League, if you look at who the Serie A sides field in the early stages of that competition then it is easy to see why.

 

[JuveJay]

A league with lots of spectators, young players and money is a base for a strong league. You are saying that the Bundesliga is inferior to Serie A and I am trying to prove to you otherwise.

I agree that it is a strong base, it just makes me wonder why a country like Germany with the economy it has, has taken so long to get to get a national league back to even this level.

It all comes down to what money there is in the league, there is a direct correlation between money and success in football, you only have to look at football from the mid 80's until now to see it. It doesn't matter whether Serie A teams can get it from selling €5 tickets and having 70,000 fans in the ground or by generating the same amount of money through tv deals, because the league is so saturated with coverage. Having 70,000 fans in the stadium doesn't make it a strong league, the money that they spend on tickets, merchandise and amenities does.

The Bundesliga simply has more money coming into the league, the fans, strong teams with wealthy backers and now 'new money' teams like Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim coming in and increasing competition, it pushes the standard of the league up. Add the complete disregard of the UEFA Cup/Europa League by Serie A clubs since it turned into a second rate competition, and that is why the Bundesliga has closed the gap, and looks to have a brighter future, at least in the short term.

Serie A clubs face several problems, mostly because clubs just don't have enough money, don't own their grounds and councils do next to nothing to improve them. The ultras are also a problem in getting families into grounds, and they are the ones who spend the most money. There is no magical fix for it, maybe Serie A clubs aside from the biggest ones will have to have a few quiet years where they channel money into the right areas, and look at domestic youth as well as foreign. The Lega Calcio's short fix is to make a 'Premier League' version of Serie A, give the clubs more tv money, expand the commercial side of the game.

To be honest I don't think it is possible for Serie A to copy the German model, there are just too many differences. Maybe English football could copy it, but Italian football has always been about short terms answers and immediate fixes, Juventus are one of the few who have a longer term plan so it is no surprise to see that we will be the first to own our own stadium. Others will follow, but it might take years.

 

[JCK]

Because the German sides are doing better in the Europa League, if you look at who the Serie A sides field in the early stages of that competition then it is easy to see why.

The German sides doing better only mean that they are better teams and better teams make better leagues. I'm sorry if my logic is simple but that's how I see things.

 

[JuveJay]

I agree that the future of the Bundesliga looks really good. The only thing I was saying is that at the moment I don't think that the level of Bundesliga is as good as Serie A or other European top leagues until I see players like Dzeko Diego Grafite and Gomez (or Molinaro!) playing great elsewhere.

I agree, but people have been waiting for a long time to see someone break the 'big 3' monopoly in European football so give someone a sniff, a statistical backing, and they will jump on it.

 

[SABSAB]

Sab would tell us more about this guy.

We need Sab. Where is my favourite German girl.

I really like Aogo, one of my favorite boys here. He was part of the Europe Cup winning U21 team. He is a very calm and mature defender for his age. His defense abilities are pretty good with potential for more, he usually keeps his side shut in a clean way. He makes good forward runs though he needs to train his crosses a little bit more, one perfect cross is followed by two horrible ones, but the potential is there. A good overall skilled player and very athletic.
Though I don't want him here. He should grow more in Hamburg.

I saw Molinaro play a number of times and he did good but again I think the opposition he faced was a lot weaker than in Serie A. I don't care how good Bayern Munich did in the CL, the league is a lot weaker than in Italy. Again Diego completely dominated the bundesliga and I'm not saying that Diego is a bad player but if he really was as good as he was there he should have done a lot better with us last season. It would be a huge risk to buy him in my opinion and we should rather go for someone like Kolarov, Abidal or Santon

Ah I didn't know that every Serie A team is better than Barca against who he played pretty good matches. Funny how this weak league improved his crossing ability just in a few days to a point where he makes assist after assist from crosses, something the mighty Serie A never figured out. But carry on it's entertaining.

 

[JuveJay]

The German sides doing better only mean that they are better teams and better teams make better leagues. I'm sorry if my logic is simple but that's how I see things.

Yes, it is too simplistic, because there are no Serie A sides who place importance on the Europa League ahead of the league, it is barely the level of the Coppa Italia.

 

[JuveJay]

Funny how this weak league improved his crossing ability just in a few days to a point where he makes assist after assist from crosses, something the mighty Serie A never figured out. But carry on it's entertaining.

So the league made him better at crossing in a few days? How does that work? Maybe it's because he has more time and the Bundesliga's style suits him better (more athleticism than technique)?

 

[JCK]

Yes, it is too simplistic, because there are no Serie A sides who place importance on the Europa League ahead of the league, it is barely the level of the Coppa Italia.

Says who?

 

[JCK]

Actually, forget it. Don't answer the question and remind me not to discuss anything with Italian fanboys anymore.

 

[JuveJay]

Says who?

The lineups fielded. Lazio fielded 5 youth team players in one EL game

Actually, forget it. Don't answer the question and remind me not to discuss anything with Italian fanboys anymore.

That really is poor, but unsurprising.

 

[SABSAB]

So the league made him better at crossing in a few days? How does that work? Maybe it's because he has more time and the Bundesliga's style suits him better (more athleticism than technique)?

Not the league but the club. I was just joking because he clearly improved his game here and does things great now which he fucked up in Serie A before. There has to be a reason and a club that doesn't bother show him how to cross or work together with other players (he and hleb made a great team, never saw that here in juve) can't really be inferior to clubs in Bundesliga.

And yes the playing stile suits him way more. He can play his speed card and use his improved skills.
Same would go to Giovinco, I think he'd do better here because it's less physical and more speedy.

 

[JCK]

The lineups fielded. Lazio fielded 5 youth team players in one EL game


That really is poor, but unsurprising.

Well I am poor.

 

[JuveJay]

Confidence as well, I didn't agree with the 'easy opponent' comment by the way, but I do think the Bundesliga suits his style better. His biggest problem is that in Serie A it is very slow in midfield but once you get to the final third the game comes to life and space is tight.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Though I don't want him here. He should grow more in Hamburg.

I think this is taken too seriously around these parts: age factor.

Aogo is not a kid and saying something like that can be good but at the same time bad. C.Ronaldo was what, 19, when he started playing regularly for Manchester United. This guy is 23 and he should be ready to make a step for the next level.

That age thing is only taken under consideration in Italy though and I find it strange. You don't see it in England, Spain or even in France. But in Italy, yes. People should be 27 when they are mature enough to play here? It's also how Ranieri has described Menez and his situation when he said "he should have played at least 200 matches in France".

IMO that's all load of rubbish. And it's one of the reasons young Italian players are vanishing and Italian football is dying. They prefer experience and stuff but we've seen Germany spank England.

Wake up people, give youth the chance. This logic is only used in Serie A and it's why it has stared to collapse.

 

[Gabriel]

The lineups fielded. Lazio fielded 5 youth team players in one EL game


That really is poor, but unsurprising.

Even if a team like Lazio fielded their starting 11 they wouldn't win the competition.

Still it's not other's team problem but rather an italian problem, if i was genoa,lazio,palermo,sampdoria's manager i would atleast try and win the EL.

They think that even if they manage to reach UCL they'll have a chance, well they won't and will end up playing EL again.. so it all comes down to winning EL or Coppa for them, I'll definitely go for EL in that case. They're just plain stupid.

Teams like Werder Bremen or Wolfsburg relish an European title more than a meaningless domestic cup.

 

[SABSAB]

I think this is taken too seriously around these parts: age factor.

Aogo is not a kid and saying something like that can be good but at the same time bad. C.Ronaldo was what, 19, when he started playing regularly for Manchester United. This guy is 23 and he should be ready to make a step for the next level.

That age thing is only taken under consideration in Italy though and I find it strange. You don't see it in England, Spain or even in France. But in Italy, yes. People should be 27 when they are mature enough to play here? It's also how Ranieri has described Menez and his situation when he said "he should have played at least 200 matches in France".

IMO that's all load of rubbish. And it's one of the reasons young Italian players are vanishing and Italian football is dying. They prefer experience and stuff but we've seen Germany spank England.

Wake up people, give youth the chance. This logic is only used in Serie A and it's why it has stared to collapse.

Jeez Dooz you think I have a problem with giving young players a chance? ME?????? I thought you know me
I just think he can just stay one more year at Hamburg where he plays regular since years and can work and improve even more than he already did.
But that he is part of this NT should say enough about his abilities and his potential.

Just look at Dortmund if you need to see how to use young players.