Ciro Ferrara (6 Viewers)

[Fellas]

First of all I must say that I really like Ferrara and I still believe that he can be a great coach.

But IMO the thing that he has failed with, is to get the right balance between Offensive and Defensive players. We play with very little cretivity. And the person to blame is Ferrara.

When Delpiero is injured we lose all our magic in attack, Trez,Iaquinta,Amauri cant play like Delpiero.

So when we start a match with Poulsen-Melo-Sissoko Diego Amauri-Iaquinta we are dooomed!!!

IMO Ferrara must play with more offensive and more creative players especially when Delpiero is injured.

Sissoko-Melo

Camo-Diego-Giovinco

Trez/Iaquinta/Amauri ( depending on form)


This line up would make us very dangerous,


Then when Delpiero is ready we could play 4-3-1-2 again

Camo/Marchisio-Melo-Sissoko

Diego

Amauri Delpiero

Because Delpiero would give us that extra that we have missed in the 4-3-1-2 .

Just my opinion, if my english was better I would explain it alot better

 

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[sateeh]

if the team does play huge parts of matches with a tactic (long balls) that was not wanted by a coach than there is seriously something wrong with the influence the coach has. i mean, it's not the first time we play that shit and if ferrara can not influence that, what is his f*ckin function here ? making a sad face when we through away important points? i think he gets paid for not just stating that the players do not play how he tells them to.

i hope he has more in store than just this public appel that they should please please not play like this ... lol

Transforming how a team plays doesn't happen overnight, in a few games. Hell sometimes its at least half a season to get them to play in a certain way. The key is whether we can get wins on trot while thats happening.

Also its just about the coach's influence here other conditions and factors apply and effect how a team plays.

 

[Red]

I'm not sure some of you realise how long it can take to change a formation and playing style.

Aberdeen have, since appointing a new coach in the summer, changed from a long ball 4-4-2 to playing a more possession based 4-3-3/4-5-1.

However, despite constant work on it in training, it was only a couple of weeks ago that the shape of the team really started to appear more as it should be and it was on Saturday that the team, in parts, really seemed to have got to grips with the movements required to make the new system work, and that was Aberdeen's 11th competitive game of the season.

Juve have played 10 games this season and are still struggling to come to terms with the new shape and style. When one factors in Juve's injuries to key players (Del Piero, Sissoko, Zebina - he is key to giving balance on the right) and the new signing settling in, I don't find it at all surprising that Juve are still experiencing teething problems with the new shape and style and so I will be disappointed if the 4-3-1-2 is given up on already.

 

[Red]

Transforming how a team plays doesn't happen overnight, in a few games. Hell sometimes its at least half a season to get them to play in a certain way. The key is whether we can get wins on trot while thats happening.

Also its just about the coach's influence here other conditions and factors apply and effect how a team plays.

First of all I must say that I really like Ferrara and I still believe that he can be a great coach.

But IMO the thing that he has failed with, is to get the right balance between Offensive and Defensive players. We play with very little cretivity. And the person to blame is Ferrara.

When Delpiero is injured we lose all our magic in attack, Trez,Iaquinta,Amauri cant play like Delpiero.

So when we start a match with Poulsen-Melo-Sissoko Diego Amauri-Iaquinta we are dooomed!!!

IMO Ferrara must play with more offensive and more creative players especially when Delpiero is injured.

Sissoko-Melo

Camo-Diego-Giovinco

Trez/Iaquinta/Amauri ( depending on form)


This line up would make us very dangerous,


Then when Delpiero is ready we could play 4-3-1-2 again

Camo/Marchisio-Melo-Sissoko

Diego

Amauri Delpiero

Because Delpiero would give us that extra that we have missed in the 4-3-1-2 .

Just my opinion, if my english was better I would explain it alot better

Interesting point, and you may be right.

However, I think the problem primarily lies with the movements and decisions of the fullbacks and the central midfielders, and the quality of service which is being given to Diego (Giovinco) and the forwards.

The strikers are only preventing the sytem from working, as far as I'm concerned, because they aren't taking enough of their chances. There isn't really that much of a problem with their movement or workrate.

The main downside of Del Piero being out is that Iaquinta and Amauri keep playing together and they just aren't compatible.

 

[v1rtu4l]

Transforming how a team plays doesn't happen overnight, in a few games. Hell sometimes its at least half a season to get them to play in a certain way. The key is whether we can get wins on trot while thats happening.

Also its just about the coach's influence here other conditions and factors apply and effect how a team plays.

it is not that he has to make us play great football with one touch passing and so on ...
not blasting the ball over the midfielders towards the forwards is just basic stuff.

he needs to tell the midfielders that they do need to run more to be able to receive EASY passes from the defenders. thats all, if i see someone that lets the defenders on their own and doesn't make himself available for an easy sub, just take him off the pitch and bring someone more hungry in that is willing to run their ass off to collect balls from the defense. what do you think why diego does let himself fall so deep when he plays ? because the other midfielders are not able to get the ball from the defender to diego (who would then be able to play in a much more advanced role). its just a simple task to run towards the defender who has the ball, collect it, play perhaps a one-two with the other midfielder (who should have also been running to the defender making himself available for an easy pass) and then playing a simple 10 meter pass to diego who will do the rest and not waste his stamina collecting the balls so deep.

it's just natural that the defenders do blast the ball away, instead of the playing risky passes to a midfielder that is marked or does not run into a space to make himself available.

it's really not something you have to learn or study in training(as professional footballer).

the passive movement of the midfielders is just awful and that is a reason, why D'agostino would have utterly failed here. He is a player who likes the direct play, but with no one even making himself available he would either lose the ball trying to dribble, because no one is free or blast the ball towards our forvets.

we got 3 "defensive" midfielders that do play pretty close to the own defense ... you can not tell me that it is too much for them to make a run a few metres to the side to be available for a pass. its not as if they would need to shift their usual position to be available.

you could argue, that this passive running is so bad, because the players do not have enough stamina to make those runs the whole game, when the opponent does apply early pressure, but then i got to ask what did ferrara actually do in preseason ... i can not see one improved thing over last season... not dead ball situation, clearly not stamina and the new formation does not really look like there are any running ways studied...


i am not talking about a fluid 4-3-1-2 system here, but the basic ... getting the ball from the defenders to the midfielders ... that does not change much from 4-4-2 (like last year) to 4-3-1-2 ... hell we even have one player more that should be available for an EASY pass. i do not care if the midfielders are the ones that do blast the ball towards the forwards, if there is no other option, but completely omission of the midfielders by playing the ball over them is really serie Z style.

 

[Fellas]

If you play with Iaquinta,Amauri,Grygera,Poulsen,Melo,Sissoko in a line up with just Diego as the creative force then I can't be suprised that we play bad.

FFS you most have balance in the team, you cant play with 3defensive midfelders 2 attackers who isen't creative and need support from other players.

Ok Diego is good but come on, he most have some support. That would make that he would have more freedom, now the other team can get Diego out of the match and we have nothing creative left

 

[Lion]

It's not so much changing the formation because it's not working...it's changing the formation because the players are missing.

Zebina is injured so we need Camo to balance that side. Del Piero is injured so we need Giovinco to act as a creative length cutting in from the left.

The formation doesn't neccesarrly have to change. You just need to take one of the strikers out, but in Giovinco and give let play a bit deeper with freedom to roam.

 

[Fellas]

I remember that we played with Giovinco,Delpiero,Amauri against Catania last season, don't remember if Camo played but we had great creativty upfront.

We draw that match 1-1 but still we created atleast 10 good chances.. we should have won that match, I accept a draw like that, we played very good but had bad luck, but ffs when we play with a team that can't creat nothing and we loose a point because of that. Then something is really wrong, We have two of the best defenive midfielders in the world, Melo,Sissoko let us use that so we can play with as many offensive players as we can.

Melo-Sissoko ( Marchisio will get his playing time to)

Camo/Diego/Giovinco/Delpiero (3 of them)

And a striker upfront

 

[Fellas]

It's not so much changing the formation because it's not working...it's changing the formation because the players are missing.

Zebina is injured so we need Camo to balance that side. Del Piero is injured so we need Giovinco to act as a creative length cutting in from the left.

The formation doesn't neccesarrly have to change. You just need to take one of the strikers out, but in Giovinco and give let play a bit deeper with freedom to roam.

jepp thats what I been trying to say in my last posts

 

[JBF]

We have two of the best defenive midfielders in the world, Melo,Sissoko let us use that so we can play with as many offensive players as we can.

 

[RAMI-N]

I remember that we played with Giovinco,Delpiero,Amauri against Catania last season, don't remember if Camo played but we had great creativty upfront.

We draw that match 1-1 but still we created atleast 10 good chances.. we should have won that match, I accept a draw like that, we played very good but had bad luck, but ffs when we play with a team that can't creat nothing and we loose a point because of that. Then something is really wrong, We have two of the best defenive midfielders in the world, Melo,Sissoko let us use that so we can play with as many offensive players as we can.

Melo-Sissoko ( Marchisio will get his playing time to)

Camo/Diego/Giovinco/Delpiero (3 of them)

And a striker upfront

 

[only-juve]

It's not so much changing the formation because it's not working...it's changing the formation because the players are missing.

Zebina is injured so we need Camo to balance that side. Del Piero is injured so we need Giovinco to act as a creative length cutting in from the left.

The formation doesn't neccesarrly have to change. You just need to take one of the strikers out, but in Giovinco and give let play a bit deeper with freedom to roam.

Sums up everything in my mind

 

[Hust]

We have two of the best defenive midfielders in the world, Melo,Sissoko let us use that so we can play with as many offensive players as we can.

See, its not that easy. The thing about that is when comparing the two, combined they both can make pretty bad decisions OR get caught with the ball at their feet. And the best way to counter that is to pressure them constantly as soon as they get the ball to either make them rush into a bad pass or in Melo's situation get him caught holding the ball close to goal. The two of them need to learn how to fix or at least improve their respective problems otherwise someone as simple as high pressure is going to cook us in the future.

 

[The Curr]

Good evening, Cam. Where shall we begin?

 

[Hust]

Good evening, Cam. Where shall we begin?

Haha, sorry I went out to eat with friends and on my way home. So, where should we begin? I suppose you can begin by arguing with my point


Or how I am 87% right when we argue....and you the rest

 

[The Curr]

Bah, you missed your chance for today. I'm about to go to bed.

 

[Hust]

Bah, you missed your chance for today. I'm about to go to bed.

I'm exhausted myself. Then again. going to bed in your terms means working the "late shift" night man


and PS to everyone else. I am personally kinda excited to see a 4231 should Ciro decide to use it. But then again, it depends on who he uses for it. As long as poulsen does not play in the 2 or 3 for the matter, then I am good. Hopefully zebina is back.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Grande Ciro

 

[sateeh]

Interesting point, and you may be right.

However, I think the problem primarily lies with the movements and decisions of the fullbacks and the central midfielders, and the quality of service which is being given to Diego (Giovinco) and the forwards.

The strikers are only preventing the sytem from working, as far as I'm concerned, because they aren't taking enough of their chances. There isn't really that much of a problem with their movement or workrate.

The main downside of Del Piero being out is that Iaquinta and Amauri keep playing together and they just aren't compatible.

I agree with that notion but its a combination of factors and I think its includes workrate or maybe simple intelligent movement. It may well be that their movement has been horrible because of the way we have been playing but that aside they rarely make smart moves towards goal. We saw how effective that could be in the Viola game where Iaq got free with a pass from Poulsen. That why its essential that Trezi has more starts imo, its not just his form but he seems to be the only one who knows where to go and actually finishes.

That brings me to the other deficiency which is under usage of the CMs. We play everything through Diego and he is expected to make those passes. But I think (at least on some occasions) he should be pushing forward more and making runs to the box and give that responsibility to the CMs. They are more than capable of doing that (Poulsen is not our best passer and did that brilliantly). So that is one aspect where a little tweaking is required to improve offensively.

it is not that he has to make us play great football with one touch passing and so on ...
not blasting the ball over the midfielders towards the forwards is just basic stuff.

he needs to tell the midfielders that they do need to run more to be able to receive EASY passes from the defenders. thats all, if i see someone that lets the defenders on their own and doesn't make himself available for an easy sub, just take him off the pitch and bring someone more hungry in that is willing to run their ass off to collect balls from the defense. what do you think why diego does let himself fall so deep when he plays ? because the other midfielders are not able to get the ball from the defender to diego (who would then be able to play in a much more advanced role). its just a simple task to run towards the defender who has the ball, collect it, play perhaps a one-two with the other midfielder (who should have also been running to the defender making himself available for an easy pass) and then playing a simple 10 meter pass to diego who will do the rest and not waste his stamina collecting the balls so deep.

it's just natural that the defenders do blast the ball away, instead of the playing risky passes to a midfielder that is marked or does not run into a space to make himself available.

it's really not something you have to learn or study in training(as professional footballer).

the passive movement of the midfielders is just awful and that is a reason, why D'agostino would have utterly failed here. He is a player who likes the direct play, but with no one even making himself available he would either lose the ball trying to dribble, because no one is free or blast the ball towards our forvets.

we got 3 "defensive" midfielders that do play pretty close to the own defense ... you can not tell me that it is too much for them to make a run a few metres to the side to be available for a pass. its not as if they would need to shift their usual position to be available.

you could argue, that this passive running is so bad, because the players do not have enough stamina to make those runs the whole game, when the opponent does apply early pressure, but then i got to ask what did ferrara actually do in preseason ... i can not see one improved thing over last season... not dead ball situation, clearly not stamina and the new formation does not really look like there are any running ways studied...


i am not talking about a fluid 4-3-1-2 system here, but the basic ... getting the ball from the defenders to the midfielders ... that does not change much from 4-4-2 (like last year) to 4-3-1-2 ... hell we even have one player more that should be available for an EASY pass. i do not care if the midfielders are the ones that do blast the ball towards the forwards, if there is no other option, but completely omission of the midfielders by playing the ball over them is really serie Z style.

Mate I know it all sounds simple in theory but its difficult to implement in such a relatively short time. We are talking about a change in behaviour here which always takes time.

As a professional footballer you put your faith in the manager you have and follow his philosophy. We are going from someone who when asked about a method of defending simply said " do whatever you did before" to something a bit more complex. Its not just about attacking movement where its all good, but movement creates spaces and spaces equal potential opportunities for the opposition, so that has to be considered as well.

We all spoke about fitness issues whether its injuries or simply not having enough petrol in some games and it is a major issue. Lets hope the players are just taking their time (not too long i hope) and will get their full fitness soon.

One point I want to add is the finishing aspect that Red brought up. Everyone agrees that we were not at our best against fiorentina but we still created a larege amount of chances whether that is from open play or set pieces. Some were really easy and were just squandered and that affects that team a lot imo. You play a defensive team and you try really hard to create a good chance and that is lost due to bad finishing, it just kills your spirit.

 

[ggnoree]

it is not that he has to make us play great football with one touch passing and so on ...
not blasting the ball over the midfielders towards the forwards is just basic stuff.

he needs to tell the midfielders that they do need to run more to be able to receive EASY passes from the defenders. thats all, if i see someone that lets the defenders on their own and doesn't make himself available for an easy sub, just take him off the pitch and bring someone more hungry in that is willing to run their ass off to collect balls from the defense. what do you think why diego does let himself fall so deep when he plays ? because the other midfielders are not able to get the ball from the defender to diego (who would then be able to play in a much more advanced role). its just a simple task to run towards the defender who has the ball, collect it, play perhaps a one-two with the other midfielder (who should have also been running to the defender making himself available for an easy pass) and then playing a simple 10 meter pass to diego who will do the rest and not waste his stamina collecting the balls so deep.

it's just natural that the defenders do blast the ball away, instead of the playing risky passes to a midfielder that is marked or does not run into a space to make himself available.

it's really not something you have to learn or study in training(as professional footballer).

the passive movement of the midfielders is just awful and that is a reason, why D'agostino would have utterly failed here. He is a player who likes the direct play, but with no one even making himself available he would either lose the ball trying to dribble, because no one is free or blast the ball towards our forvets.

we got 3 "defensive" midfielders that do play pretty close to the own defense ... you can not tell me that it is too much for them to make a run a few metres to the side to be available for a pass. its not as if they would need to shift their usual position to be available.

you could argue, that this passive running is so bad, because the players do not have enough stamina to make those runs the whole game, when the opponent does apply early pressure, but then i got to ask what did ferrara actually do in preseason ... i can not see one improved thing over last season... not dead ball situation, clearly not stamina and the new formation does not really look like there are any running ways studied...


i am not talking about a fluid 4-3-1-2 system here, but the basic ... getting the ball from the defenders to the midfielders ... that does not change much from 4-4-2 (like last year) to 4-3-1-2 ... hell we even have one player more that should be available for an EASY pass. i do not care if the midfielders are the ones that do blast the ball towards the forwards, if there is no other option, but completely omission of the midfielders by playing the ball over them is really serie Z style.

you are absolutely right, also I don't know if people noticed but towards the end of the match with Fiorentina, in the midfield our players were so frustrated with each other that they started shouting/giving hand signs which looked more like "dudes just fucking move so I can pass you the ball".