Charlie Hebdo massacre - 2015-Jan-07 (8 Viewers)

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L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,441
Great article. Read it. @Turk 1.4, you should read it too.

From Teenage Angst to Jihad

Something snapped. I was 13 years old, dreaming of books and girls and nothing else — a healthy Dutch kid with a Moroccan background who freewheeled through life. Then something happened that made me feel different from the pack. One day in history class, the fatwa against Salman Rushdie became the subject. Our teacher talked about freedom of expression; I talked about insulting the Prophet. There was an awkward silence. What was that Abdelkader guy talking about? Fatwhat?

But our teacher, Mr. Fok, understood me. He claimed the fatwa didn’t make sense. How could somebody be offended by fiction? How could using one’s imagination lead to the death sentence?

I remember standing up, my voice rising as I struggled to make an argument about the holiness of the Prophet to me and my community. And the more Mr. Fok responded with cold and rational analysis the angrier I got. Didn’t he get that this was about more than reason and common sense? Didn’t he get that mocking the Prophet was a moral crime?

My classmates looked at me like a madman. By then I was standing and shouting. I’d never felt such anger before. This wasn’t about a novel, this was about me. About us. I wanted revenge. Mr. Fok just looked at me, amazed by my temper and a bit annoyed, and dismissed me from class. For the first time in my life I felt what it meant to be Muslim. I didn’t want to feel that way. I wanted to blend in, to look normal like the other kids in my class. After the frustration and anger ebbed, I felt shame — for letting my religion down, letting my family down, letting myself down. Shame for an anger I didn’t understand. I grew up in a relatively traditional Moroccan family. We observed Ramadan but my father rarely went to the mosque. There were two books in our house, the Quran and the phone book. We never looked at either of them. We didn’t talk much about the fatwa but it was impossible to ignore. Muslims were marching through the streets of Rotterdam. It was the first time we felt seen as part of a community that had questions to answer: Which side are you on? Why are you offended? Where does this anger come from? Can Islam coexist with Western values? The world didn’t stop reminding me I was a Muslim. My name, my background, my skin, my family and the events unfolding in the world all led to more self-questioning.

Islam told me God is One and the Prophet is his messenger. Adhere to the five pillars and all will be well. But we were living in a non-Muslim country. But I wasn’t Dutch, nor was I secular. I had to find a way to reconcile my religious background with a secular world. I felt orphaned.

And resolving that dilemma is much harder in a secular society that seems to have stopped struggling with these big questions altogether.

In the end, I didn’t find the answers in holy texts. I found them in literature.

I read Kafka’s “Metamorphosis” and Camus’ “The Plague.” I thought back on my younger days lashing out against “The Satanic Verses.” I remembered sneaking into a bookshop and seeing the book piled up ready to be read but my English was insufficient to understand it. The book turned me away; the curiosity stayed.

When I was 17, I found “The Satanic Verses” tucked away in a school library. I grabbed it, started reading and was mesmerized. Here was a young man struggling with his faith in a faithless world — an immigrant son from a deeply religious home thrown into a world where everything is embraced and nothing is sacred. It confirmed what I had felt deep inside: a free and open society is a threat to religious people. Their religion will be mocked — sometimes even suppressed — and this will provoke anger.

And now it’s happening again. The rise of extremists who lure young Muslims in the West with visions of Islamic utopia is creating nausea among European Muslims. Boys and girls are leaving their families and being converted into killing machines. They are leaving not from Baghdad but from Brussels and The Hague. We insist that this can’t be our Islam and if this is Islam we don’t want it. But I know from my own experience that the lure of extremism can be very powerful when you grow up in a world where the media and everyone around you seems to mock and insult your culture.

And European governments are not helping fight extremism by giving in to Islamophobia cooked up by right-wing populists. What I see is a lack of courage to embrace the Muslims of Europe as genuinely European — as citizens like everyone else.

One of the first people the terrorists in Paris killed was one of us: Mustapha Ourrad, an Algerian-born copy editor at Charlie Hebdo. Then they killed another Muslim: the police officer, Ahmed Merabet. The killers didn’t take mercy on them. In the name of Islam they killed Muslims. And every time a European Muslim sees that image of Mr. Merabet’s last moments, he sees himself lying there on the cold pavement. Helpless. And the next question will be: What will I say tomorrow at work or at school? What happened last week is not about lack of humor, or a failure to understand caricature. Nor is it about hatred of the West. It’s about anger taking a wrong turn.

What makes us human and creative is our doubt. But doubt on its own can turn into anger and fundamentalism. As the French writer Michel Houellebecq said in an interview: “People cannot live without God. Life becomes unbearable.” The terrorists found their God in a godless society. Charlie Hebdo mocked their God by declaring him nothing more than a cartoon. They came back to rescue their God and left 12 dead behind. They fell prey to a powerful delusion. It was the same delusion I felt as a teenager: that by attacking the messenger your anger will disappear and you will be victorious. But the only way to conquer your anger is to understand where its roots lie. For me the freedom to doubt, to not choose sides and to feel empathy for characters and people with whom I disagree was liberating. Today I still embrace my Islamic background, but without the dogma, repression and strict adherence to ritual. Since 9/11, so many European Muslims have also doubted their belonging. Do they belong to the Paris of Voltaire or the Mecca of Muhammad? It’s the wrong question. Muslims are every bit as European as the Roma, gays, intellectuals, farmers and factory workers. We have been in Europe for centuries and politicians and the press must stop acting is if we arrived yesterday. We are here to stay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/14/opinion/the-anger-of-europes-young-marginalized-muslims.html?_r=0
Good article :tup:

It also exposes how dangerous religious beliefs can be when they must extend universally to people well outside of their culture and social circles.

One of the things that surprised me in learning about how the Mormons from Utah funded California's Proposition 8 campaign to make gay marriage illegal tied back to the Mormon view of creating a religious utopia according to their beliefs. That people could be gay and paired up refutes their core beliefs of salvation and how the afterlife must play out for all humans throughout all eternity. To accept gay marriage was essentially to accept that their religious vision for eternity and the afterlife was flawed.

Of course, the Mormons didn't take up arms and shoot gays attempting to marry in California. But it was a similar type of affront -- how people who have nothing to do with your own religion can basically violate your own core religious beliefs even if they have nothing to do with you.

One of many reasons why religion is so dangerous.
 

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Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
Religions I believe are still good for the most part, helping both the individual and the society on many circumstances. Should be distanced from political systems though.
There are some good teachings in it (Not everything is bad in it), and I would rate some of them good, bible for example, a good story book for children! But as we see it turns to something very dangerous, and specially for uncivilized ignorants..


The world don't need religions to become good, and I know even if it is removed, the world would still be a horrible place..
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,618
Religions I believe are still good for the most part, helping both the individual and the society on many circumstances. Should be distanced from political systems though.
It certainly has good parts, but it comes with the added baggage of the bad parts. Not to mention any extremist interpretation of the bad parts results in a direct harm to society(blasphemy, homophobia, adultery to name a few). IMO, since the whole concept has a weak basis(god), religion should be discarded altogether and we must find better replacements for whatever religion has to offer. If we don't, then we fail as humans.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,511
Good article :tup:

It also exposes how dangerous religious beliefs can be when they must extend universally to people well outside of their culture and social circles.

One of the things that surprised me in learning about how the Mormons from Utah funded California's Proposition 8 campaign to make gay marriage illegal tied back to the Mormon view of creating a religious utopia according to their beliefs. That people could be gay and paired up refutes their core beliefs of salvation and how the afterlife must play out for all humans throughout all eternity. To accept gay marriage was essentially to accept that their religious vision for eternity and the afterlife was flawed.

Of course, the Mormons didn't take up arms and shoot gays attempting to marry in California. But it was a similar type of affront -- how people who have nothing to do with your own religion can basically violate your own core religious beliefs even if they have nothing to do with you.

One of many reasons why religion is so dangerous.
:lol:

That sounds like the least of your worries. It's akin to the fear-mongering over ISIS.

There are thousands of more pressing issues than fucking gay marriage, and I have gay friends.

Liberals will never understand how important a viable economy is to sustaining personal freedom.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,189
:lol:

That sounds like the least of your worries. It's akin to the fear-mongering over ISIS.

There are thousands of more pressing issues than fucking gay marriage, and I have gay friends.

Liberals will never understand how important a viable economy is to sustaining personal freedom.
There are more pressing issues, but it's odd that it even is an issue at all these days. Who the hell cares?
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
:lol:

That sounds like the least of your worries. It's akin to the fear-mongering over ISIS.

There are thousands of more pressing issues than fucking gay marriage, and I have gay friends.

Liberals will never understand how important a viable economy is to sustaining personal freedom.
Without economic freedom of the individual, no real freedom can exist of course. Policies of economic liberalisation ironically however are diametrically opposed to that goal.

But that's off-topic. And yes, there are more pressing matters than gay-marriage, but that's no viable argument for disregarding the issue either.
 

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
Good article :tup:

It also exposes how dangerous religious beliefs can be when they must extend universally to people well outside of their culture and social circles.

One of the things that surprised me in learning about how the Mormons from Utah funded California's Proposition 8 campaign to make gay marriage illegal tied back to the Mormon view of creating a religious utopia according to their beliefs. That people could be gay and paired up refutes their core beliefs of salvation and how the afterlife must play out for all humans throughout all eternity. To accept gay marriage was essentially to accept that their religious vision for eternity and the afterlife was flawed.

Of course, the Mormons didn't take up arms and shoot gays attempting to marry in California. But it was a similar type of affront -- how people who have nothing to do with your own religion can basically violate your own core religious beliefs even if they have nothing to do with you.

One of many reasons why religion is so dangerous.
I am sure Mormons are not much different than these, if they were ordered to kill sinful people in their books, they would gladly do! Maybe they don't kill as much of these, but I am sure they keep violating human rights..


@king Ale The guy is blaming the west for all these violence! That they found their god in a godless society, and that they should defend him! These are only excuses, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan! What about these countries? Were they mocking their god too in there? What is the excuse of all the violence in there?

Sadly the religion is a bad education, and specially if they don't get a good education next to it, or the education from their family! You will act the way you are raised! If you are raised in a civilized family and with love and no oppression, I don't think you would kill anyone for insulting your religion or your mother.. I wouldn't also blame economical problems for making one hopeless and easily attracted to terrorism.. It's either the way you were raised, or psychological problems..
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
So sad (there are reports of similar instances in England) but not surprising when you have this:


Hatred spreads just like that. Lets count those who would march for this one and see if the number would exceed that of Naji Ali's ;)
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,511
Violent protests in over 20 countries just because somebody posted an image of stupid Muhammed. So much for that whole, "it's not the face of Islam" nonsense.
 

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
At least three people have been killed and six churches attacked in Niger amid fresh protests against French magazine Charlie Hebdo's cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

Protests began outside Niamey's grand mosque and reportedly spread to other parts of the country, a day after five were killed in Niger's second city.

Niger's president condemned the violence and appealed for calm.

Last week, Islamist gunmen killed 12 people at Charlie Hebdo's offices.

The cover of the magazine's latest edition, published after the attack, featured a cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad weeping while holding a sign saying "I am Charlie".

Seven million copies of the edition are being printed in view of extraordinary demand, distributors announced on Saturday. The magazine's print run before the attack was 60,000.

Many Muslims see any depiction of Islam's prophet as offensive.

In Niger, a former French colony, hundreds of demonstrators gathered at Niamey's grand mosque, shouting "God is Great" in Arabic.

At least six churches were set on fire or looted in Niamey and regional towns. Bars, hotels and businesses under non-Muslim ownership were also targeted.

Two charred bodies were recovered from a church on the outskirts of Niamey, and the body of a woman was found in a bar, Reuters reported.
'Everything has gone'

Pastor Zakaria Jadi, whose church was burnt down in the capital Niamey, said he was in a meeting with church elders when he heard of the attacks.

"I just rushed and told my colleagues in the church to take away their families from the place," he told the BBC World Service. "I took my family to take them out from the place. When I came back I just discovered that everything has gone. There's nothing in my house and also in the church."

Niger's President, Mahamadou Issoufou, was one of six African heads of state to attend a unity march in Paris after the attacks against Charlie Hebdo.

"Those who loot these places of worship, who desecrate them and kill their Christian compatriots... have understood nothing of Islam," he said after Saturday's violence.

During Friday's demonstration in Niger's second city, Zinder, protesters raided shops run by Christians and attacked the French cultural centre.

The centre's director, Kaoumi Bawa, said an angry crowd of around 50 people had smashed the building's door and set fire to the cafeteria, library and offices.

The death toll in Zinder rose from four to five when emergency services found a burned body inside a Catholic Church.

Protests against the Charlie Hebdo cartoon were also seen on Friday in Pakistan, where protests turned violent in Karachi, the Sudanese capital of Khartoum and the Algerian capital, Algiers.

People in Somalia took to the streets on Saturday.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30863159

- - - Updated - - -

World gone mad again :weee:
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
61,271
So sad (there are reports of similar instances in England) but not surprising when you have this:


Hatred spreads just like that. Lets count those who would march for this one and see if the number would exceed that of Naji Ali's ;)
Why don't we just bomb Isis.. What a thing to say. Like it's a building.
The only person that should be bombed is her.
 

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