Champions League 2019/20 (13 Viewers)

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
8,380
Of course it was. But by the same logic, so is this defeat of Klopp’s Liverpool by Atletico who have been very poor all year. Great managers fail sometimes, it doesn’t change the fact they are still great.
True. Klopp isn't infallible either. This year Klopp hasn't done a good job with Liverpool in Europe. 4 wins from 8 games.

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Ajax were the best team in the CL last season. they slapped treble winning Real silly.
Last year's Real were terrible. They didn't even try to replace Ronaldo and paid the price.
As for Ajax, even a mediocre team like Tottenham exposed their flaws when they pushed them hard. We would have too, if we had pushed them as much.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,164
We didnt have near our starting XI either. DC, Cuads, Chiellini, Mandzukic all didnt play 2nd game. You want us to play to our potential with a MDS-Berna right side, and Rugani behind them? With just Chiellini and Mandzu we probably advance, even if they dont fix the most necessary issue at the time which was the midfield
Yes, I want us to be able to play somewhere very close to our potential with 4 players missing. 4-6 players out at the same time seems to be the standard situation for us the past few years, you can't excuse a coach with 4 injuries
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
30,429
True. Klopp isn't infallible either. This year Klopp hasn't done a good job with Liverpool in Europe. 4 wins from 8 games.

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Last year's Real were terrible. They didn't even try to replace Ronaldo and paid the price.
As for Ajax, even a mediocre team like Tottenham exposed their flaws when they pushed them hard. We would have too, if we had pushed them as much.
Ajax was good. There’s no debate really. They dominated Spurs for 3 of 4 halves in that tie, and then collapsed, hit the woodwork 2-3 times and went out on an injury time goal.

There’s no real argument that they were a mediocre team last year. It was still a failure to go out to them obviously, but that doesn’t change that they were very good.

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Afghan for that post. Your bruder :p
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
44,183
Yes, I want us to be able to play somewhere very close to our potential with 4 players missing. 4-6 players out at the same time seems to be the standard situation for us the past few years, you can't excuse a coach with 4 injuries
Show me a team that can do that. Real lost Ronaldo and went from 3 straight titles to being decimated by that same Ajax. Maybe City is the only one because they have players on the bench that can replace those who carry them through games. But if you understand the way we played without mids that can attack in/around the box, then you'd realize that not having our best (and only) 2 wings, and our only back to the goal outlet striker, against a high and hard press team like them was in fact a big deal. We used to skip the midfield for Dybala to break their press, but even he had to drop to the midfield to get the ball because we couldn't advance otherwise. Then we tried Kean to push their lines back, but he struggled to hold the ball and we looked even worse. We missed if not them, then players with similar characteristics to replace them. And we didn't have any
 

Kyle

Work in Progress
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
71,372
True. Klopp isn't infallible either. This year Klopp hasn't done a good job with Liverpool in Europe. 4 wins from 8 games.

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Last year's Real were terrible. They didn't even try to replace Ronaldo and paid the price.
As for Ajax, even a mediocre team like Tottenham exposed their flaws when they pushed them hard. We would have too, if we had pushed them as much.
Ajax dominated Tottenham. luck and lucas moura got them through
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
44,183
Sorry, but the defeat against Ajax was a massive failure. I don't often agree with @Nedved96, but he's right in this case.
All but 5 ties including the final that season were decided in the last 10 minutes. Ajax were minutes away from a final and won the domestic double in convincing fashion, they were one of the best teams last season. It was a failure, but not a massive one. Going out to a tier 3 team like Lyon this season for example, that would be embarrassing
 

il brutto

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
8,449
Show me a team that can do that. Real lost Ronaldo and went from 3 straight titles to being decimated by that same Ajax. Maybe City is the only one because they have players on the bench that can replace those who carry them through games. But if you understand the way we played without mids that can attack in/around the box, then you'd realize that not having our best (and only) 2 wings, and our only back to the goal outlet striker, against a high and hard press team like them was in fact a big deal. We used to skip the midfield for Dybala to break their press, but even he had to drop to the midfield to get the ball because we couldn't advance otherwise. Then we tried Kean to push their lines back, but he struggled to hold the ball and we looked even worse. We missed if not them, then players with similar characteristics to replace them. And we didn't have any
Even City have had massive problems defensively without Laporte in the team. I agree with your point though, if you have a capable replacement for the missing players you could be fine. However as we know every team has some position where they simply don't have good enough replacements. For us that position last year was CB. Going from Chiellini to Rugani/Caceres is tragic.
 

Snobist

DareDevil
Apr 16, 2017
7,290
Even City have had massive problems defensively without Laporte in the team. I agree with your point though, if you have a capable replacement for the missing players you could be fine. However as we know every team has some position where they simply don't have good enough replacements. For us that position last year was CB. Going from Chiellini to Rugani/Caceres is tragic.
That's why it was stupid not to give more minutes to Benatia before December.
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
770
There were two reasons why people perceived last year's result as a very big failure. First of all, that second game against Atletico set expectations really high. Second of all, it was a first year with CR7, who was expected to perform miracles in CL. With these two factors Ajax looked irrelevant even after their win against RM (because they lost at home, and Madrid wasted tons of chances while Ajax enjoyed a lot of lucky moments in Bernabeu). As a result, both Juventus and Ajax were misperceived. In reality that failure was big, but not as big as it's been described by some here, because neither Juventus was that good at that moment nor Ajax was that irrelevant.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
44,183
Even City have had massive problems defensively without Laporte in the team. I agree with your point though, if you have a capable replacement for the missing players you could be fine. However as we know every team has some position where they simply don't have good enough replacements. For us that position last year was CB. Going from Chiellini to Rugani/Caceres is tragic.
But with City it doesent affect the way they play to such a degree like with us. Sane is out for a while, they got Mahrez. B. Silva/KDB out, they still have D. Silva. Sterling is also there, they can move Gundogan and play Fernandinho behind. The emphasis of their game is on the final 3rd, and they have like 10 players who excel there.

With us, we have room for one wing since we used two of Ronaldo, Dybala, Mandzu (sometimes all 3), so DC/Cuads. None were there and Berna is more like a wide AM than a classic wing, he won't break defenses or transition the ball. Mandzu out, what other player did we have that can do a similar job? Then Chiellini/Rugani ofcourse, when we play the later we have to compensate and put more 'defense' in other areas, hence Can and MDS starting over Benta/Sami and Cancelo. It changes the balance of the team to too much of a degree to not be felt at the highest level. Not saying it's impossible to advance, but it makes it much harder and players need to execute the plan to perfection, not let van de beek receive the ball in the box between 2 of our defenders
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,164
it's the coach you're shilling
No idea what shilling means, but I'm sensing I dont want to know

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Show me a team that can do that. Real lost Ronaldo and went from 3 straight titles to being decimated by that same Ajax. Maybe City is the only one because they have players on the bench that can replace those who carry them through games. But if you understand the way we played without mids that can attack in/around the box, then you'd realize that not having our best (and only) 2 wings, and our only back to the goal outlet striker, against a high and hard press team like them was in fact a big deal. We used to skip the midfield for Dybala to break their press, but even he had to drop to the midfield to get the ball because we couldn't advance otherwise. Then we tried Kean to push their lines back, but he struggled to hold the ball and we looked even worse. We missed if not them, then players with similar characteristics to replace them. And we didn't have any
Are you asking me to show you a team that has 4 injured players and still manages to play well? :D Hmm, I dont know about 4, but Spurs had a bunch injured and managed to eliminate Ajax last season
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
44,183
No idea what shilling means, but I'm sensing I dont want to know

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Are you asking me to show you a team that has 4 injured players and still manages to play well? :D Hmm, I dont know about 4, but Spurs had a bunch injured and managed to eliminate Ajax last season
They were without Kane and Son in the 1st game (amd Lamela but hes not a starter, but lost 1-0. They played 352 with Alli-Eriksen mid and Lucas-Llorente attack, you think they werent affected? For the return leg they got Son amd Lamela back, and won away
 

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