Caucasus Conflict (4 Viewers)

Mar 3, 2008
517
The question should be, why not destroy the BTC Pipeline? If Russia could gather a scapegoat, much like they did with their own peacekeepers in Georgia for the escalation of this conflict, why not use the "Armenian insurgency rebels trying to disrupt the peace process" to blow the pipes? Or another group. What is the West going to do? Invade Russia? Proceed to DEFCON 2?
Nothing, no one gonna do anything. The US cares about the pipelines, but not as much as the oilfields. It can always be routed through another country. So, anything other than moral support for Georgia, is not an option for US. This war is just another olympic event. Pick your team and cheer.
 

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Kosta

The Eccentric
Jul 16, 2006
5,775
Nothing, no one gonna do anything. The US cares about the pipelines, but not as much as the oilfields. It can always be routed through another country. So, anything other than moral support for Georgia, is not an option for US. This war is just another olympic event. Pick your team and cheer.
Sad, but true. As for Kostarika , you can't defend your country on a internet forum, you'll get ban eventually.
 

David01

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2006
2,825
I'm not here to pick any sides nobody can win as in the end there are always innocent casualties
Georgie will probably surrender but the Russian families will have inevitably lost a familymember so who will win then?
I read in the newspaper today that the UN repeatedly warned Georgie the last couple of months as there were a number of incidents along it's borders, both parties started a build-up of troops but Georgian cameras were always conveniently present to film this in there advantage. On the other hand, the Russians have hit them way out of proportian
I believe only the civilians are innocent in such a conflict, unfortunatly they are the first victims as well
 
OP
K0STA

K0STA

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2006
1,037
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #124
    I think it's you that needs to think. I'm against any country starting a war with another, even if there was a cease fire called before or even if you have a core in that province. If Azerbaijan attacks Nagorno Karabakh, then I would be against Azerbaijan but if Armenia started the attack first, then I would be against Armenia. It's that simple, innocent lives are gona be lost but only because a country infuriated another. In this case, Georgia broke the cease fire. So what ? did you think Russia wasn't going to retaliate ? Keep dreaming.
    You man are on the moon right now and dont know a thing going on;

    WHERE TEH HECK DID YOU GET ALL THIS INFORMATION TELL ME?

    What did GEORGIA start? Are you Sure?
    And about Cease Fire if you are interested we ceased fire several times; Also made corridors for Osethians and even let Russians to get their wounded soldiers; How would All Osethians cross the border?

    And its been a long time since we left Tskhinvali and GEORGIAN TROOPS ARE OUT OF CONFLICT ZONE; But what happened? NOthing around 50 Jets bombed all around GEORGIA; Including Capital;


    DID YOU WATCH THE UN MEETING? THE US AMBASSADOR QUOTED RECENT TALK OF LAVROV WITH C. RICE, Which said that "SAAKASHVILI MUST GO"

    The russian was furious, and said why he was telling confidential informati8on;

    This is the essence of conflict, they are Occupants and want NON_DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES AROUND; They officially said that Saakashvili and regime (the most pr0-western in region) must go;


    PLEASE IF YOU ARE NOT WELL INFORMED DONT MAKE SUCH FALSE STATEMENTS;
     

    Maher

    Juventuz addict
    Dec 16, 2002
    13,521
    the Georgians thought that the USA and NATO will come and help them but they now know that was a wrong calculations since nato will not go into war with russia for georgia
     
    OP
    K0STA

    K0STA

    Senior Member
    Jul 12, 2006
    1,037
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #126
    Please sign the Petition:

    http://www.gopetition.com/online/21091.html

    The Ossetians are originally descendants of the Alans, a Sarmatian tribe. Under Mongol rule, they were pushed out of their medieval homeland south of the Don river in present-day Russia and part migrated towards and over the Caucasus mountains, to Georgia where they formed three distinct territorial entities.

    Digor in the west came under the influence of the neighboring Kabard people, who introduced Islam. Tualläg in the south became what is now South Ossetia, part of the historical Georgian principality of Samachablo where Ossetians found refuge from Mongol invaders. Iron in the north became what is now North Ossetia, under Russian rule from 1767.

    The Soviet government established by the Russian 11th Red Army in 1921 created the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast (i.e., district) in April 1922.
    The United Nations, European Union, Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia. However, the de facto independent republic governed by the secessionist government held a second independence referendum on November 12, 2006, after its first referendum in 1992 was not recognized by the international community as valid. However, it was not recognized internationally by the UN, European Union, OSCE, NATO and the Russian Federation, given the lack of ethnic Georgian participation and the legality of such referendum without recognition from the central government in Tbilisi.

    The European Union, OSCE and NATO condemned the referendum. Parallel to the secessionist held referendum and elections, the Ossetian opposition movement (The Salvation Union of South Ossetia) to Kokoity, organised their own elections in which both Georgian and some Ossetian inhabitants of the region voted in favour of Dmitri Sanakoev as the alternative President of South Ossetia. The alternative elections of Sanakoev claimed full support of the ethnic Georgian population. In 2007, Dmitri Sanakoev became the head of the Provisional Administration of South Ossetia.

    On July 13, 2007, Georgia set up a state commission, chaired by the Prime Minister Zurab Noghaideli, to develop South Ossetia's autonomous status within the Georgian state. According to the Georgian officials, the status will be elaborated within the framework of "an all-inclusive dialogue" with all the forces and communities within the Ossetian society.

    On August 8, 2008, on the same day as the 2008 Olympic Games officially commenced, hostilities began between Georgian forces and South Ossetia's separatist forces supported by Russian military forces.
    Petition:
    We, the undersigned, call upon the international community to meaningfully aid Georgia in stopping the Russian Federation from violating international laws and its attacks on Georgia's sovereign territory.

    The international community has long recognized that South Ossetia is an integral part of Georgia's territory. The presence of Russian forces has been legitimate solely for peacekeeping. The most recent actions by Russia go far beyond its legitimate and recognized role in managing the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and should not be tolerated.

    We people, respectful of international laws, regulations and democracy, request that all the Russian Federation's military forces must leave Georgia's land and territory. Further we demand that these forces cease any and all attacks on Georgian targets civilian or military.

    We ask the world to raise their voices in support for Georgia's right to protect its territorial integrity. We ask you to raise your voices to protect the civilians that are suffering due to the Russian Federation’s attacks outside the conflict zone. We ask you to send an envoy to Georgia to negotiate for the safety of our citizens to find an end to this war. The principles of democracy and civilized society require every person who cares about democracy throughout the world to stand up for Georgia.

    Now it is up to the world to help Georgia, thus to defend principles of democracy. Russia must be held accountable for their actions. Please join us in solidarity to call upon Russia to step back and leave the space for negotiations, and to respect Georgia’s sovereignty as an independent nation.

    http://pr1.rustavi2.com/news/index.php

    more detailed news



    Richard Holbrooke: “Putin’s next target will be Ukraine”
    11.08.08 13:04

    Former Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke said Russia acted feeling hatred for Mikhail Saakashvili and wanted to overthrow the government, APA reports. Richard Holbrooke said in his interview to CNN that Russia trying to separate Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia incited Georgia to the military conflict.
    “No one needs cold war with Russia. But this country has intruded into the territory of a sovereign state. I was surprised at Bush’s embracing Putin in the opening of the Olympic Games. After that Putin was sitting while Bush and first lady were applauding the American team,” he said.
    Richard Holbrooke called Mikhail Saakashvili the most democratic and pro-western leader in the region.
    Asked whether the war could impact on the whole region, former diplomat said he did not believe it and that Ukraine would join the conflict.
    “Putin’s next target will be Ukraine. But he can not do it there. Georgia has 5 million population and Ukraine 50 million. There are other factors, too,” he said.
    Richard Holbrooke is expected to be Secretary of State in case Barack Obama is elected president.



    UN Security Council to meet again
    11.08.08 11:55

    The UN Security Council ended on Sunday another round of consultations without reaching an agreement on a truce call for the escalating conflict in Georgia. It was the 15-member body's fourth meeting on the subject since late-night Thursday, when Russia circulated a draft statement urging Georgia and South Ossetian rebels to renounce the use of force. After the previous three rounds of talks, the council did not approve the draft as well as its revised versions that included a call for the parties to refrain from the use of violence.

    During Sunday's meeting, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin traded accusations over the conflict, which the UN said has spread to Abkhazia, another rebel enclave inside Georgia. Citing a telephone call between Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and his U.S. counterpart Condoleezza Rice, Khalilzad accused Russia of attempting a regime change in Georgia. `This is completely unacceptable and crosses the line,` Khalilzad said.

    He also said through its military offensive against Georgia, Russia was trying to wage `terror` against the local people. `We must condemn Russia's military assault on the sovereign state of Georgia ... including the targeting of civilians and the campaign of terror against the Georgian population,` he said.

    Churkin vehemently denied the `terror` charge. `This is completely unacceptable, especially from the lips of a representative of a country whose actions we are aware of in Iraq, Afghanistan and Serbia,` he retorted.

    Khalilzad said he was preparing a draft resolution that would urge the council to call for an immediate cease-fire and condemn Russia.

    In a briefing to the council at Saturday's meeting, UN Assistant Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Operations Edmond Mulet said hostilities are continuing in Georgia and there have been a `substantial number of casualties, refugees and destruction. `

    Citing reports from UN peacekeepers in the region, Mulet expressed concerns that the conflict appeared to be spreading into Abkhazia.

    Since late Thursday, the council has been trying to adopt a statement that would call on the warring parties in Georgia to cease violence immediately.
     

    Eddy

    The Maestro
    Aug 20, 2005
    12,645
    You man are on the moon right now and dont know a thing going on;

    WHERE TEH HECK DID YOU GET ALL THIS INFORMATION TELL ME?

    What did GEORGIA start? Are you Sure?
    And about Cease Fire if you are interested we ceased fire several times; Also made corridors for Osethians and even let Russians to get their wounded soldiers; How would All Osethians cross the border?

    And its been a long time since we left Tskhinvali and GEORGIAN TROOPS ARE OUT OF CONFLICT ZONE; But what happened? NOthing around 50 Jets bombed all around GEORGIA; Including Capital;


    DID YOU WATCH THE UN MEETING? THE US AMBASSADOR QUOTED RECENT TALK OF LAVROV WITH C. RICE, Which said that "SAAKASHVILI MUST GO"

    The russian was furious, and said why he was telling confidential informati8on;

    This is the essence of conflict, they are Occupants and want NON_DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES AROUND; They officially said that Saakashvili and regime (the most pr0-western in region) must go;


    PLEASE IF YOU ARE NOT WELL INFORMED DONT MAKE SUCH FALSE STATEMENTS;
    CNN is your friend. So is BBC.
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    53,999
    Nice reply of the Russian ambassador to the US ambassador in UN on the accusations that the Russian forces bombed territory deep inside Georgia, far from the border.

    The Russian guy replied with "In case of Kosovo, you (he means NATO) didn't mark the limits of what is Kosovo, but went ahead randomly and started bombing Belgrade and bridges on Danube which are +400 kilometers away from the conflict,"

    In other words, what he wanted to say was : " Shut up you hypocrites !!"
     

    Eddy

    The Maestro
    Aug 20, 2005
    12,645
    The question should be, why not destroy the BTC Pipeline? If Russia could gather a scapegoat, much like they did with their own peacekeepers in Georgia for the escalation of this conflict, why not use the "Armenian insurgency rebels trying to disrupt the peace process" to blow the pipes?
    Because we have other more important stuff than trying to blow up a pipleline just because it doesnt go through our country.
     
    OP
    K0STA

    K0STA

    Senior Member
    Jul 12, 2006
    1,037
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #130
    Nice reply of the Russian ambassador to the US ambassador in UN on the accusations that the Russian forces bombed territory deep inside Georgia, far from the border.

    The Russian guy replied with "In case of Kosovo, you (he means NATO) didn't mark the limits of what is Kosovo, but went ahead randomly and started bombing Belgrade and bridges on Danube which are +400 kilometers away from the conflict,"

    In other words, what he wanted to say was : " Shut up you hypocrites !!"
    You should have listend to whole dialogue.

    Lavrov Directly said to Rice that "Saakashvili must go" DO U GET WHAT IT MEANS?

    What the heck is he talking about? What Kosovo? They should answer for all this; They should get slapped in the face!

    They hate democracy, they hate everything free, and they are direct OCCUPANTS!
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    116,175
    Nice reply of the Russian ambassador to the US ambassador in UN on the accusations that the Russian forces bombed territory deep inside Georgia, far from the border.

    The Russian guy replied with "In case of Kosovo, you (he means NATO) didn't mark the limits of what is Kosovo, but went ahead randomly and started bombing Belgrade and bridges on Danube which are +400 kilometers away from the conflict,"

    In other words, what he wanted to say was : " Shut up you hypocrites !!"
    True. That was a good response and shows where my government continues to screw up. Stupid motherfuckers.

    Because we have other more important stuff than trying to blow up a pipleline just because it doesnt go through our country.
    What does that mean, Eddy? Are you saying that Russia is NOT concerned with the crude flow to the West?

    Like I said before, pretty much every war is due to economic concerns. There are other underpinnings in some cases but some of those are facades.
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,665
    This is a tough to call. I can't say I can really root for anyone in particular in this case. Georgia is sympathetic to the west but they are hardly innocent. I say inaction is probably the best action in this case let the world sort out their own problems for a change.
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,665
    Nice reply of the Russian ambassador to the US ambassador in UN on the accusations that the Russian forces bombed territory deep inside Georgia, far from the border.

    The Russian guy replied with "In case of Kosovo, you (he means NATO) didn't mark the limits of what is Kosovo, but went ahead randomly and started bombing Belgrade and bridges on Danube which are +400 kilometers away from the conflict,"

    In other words, what he wanted to say was : " Shut up you hypocrites !!"
    If I were the US ambassador I would have merely replied "Goolag bitches, Goolag".
     

    SoundAttack

    Guru of Greatness
    Aug 25, 2007
    151
    So let me get this straight. Georgia were tricked into defending themselves from Russian influences, Russia was tricked into attacking Georgia by the United States by... uhhh... being an ally of Georgia? :confused:

    So who tricked the United States, considering this looks like an endless cycle?
    Let me tell you something, its not about an endless cycle or anything, US of A meddles in every country with resources i dont know much about georgia but there has to be something in it for them, Didnt the US trick saddam into occupying Kuwait? then screwed him up big time, with the US, nothing is formiddable, they probably wont help the georgians till theyr guaranteed a catch out of all this, theyr probably doing under the table talk with the russians to continue whatever it is theyr doing, while on the other hand working with the georgians to get something out of it, you can like it or not, but the USA is known to do dirty work, then eliminate its own Allies.

    Remember the Shah of Iran? Saddam hussein? bin laden? Lebanon? now its georgias turn, dont turn a blind eye for the sake of it.

    And about the guy who mentioned, why does it always have to be the US of A's fault if theres a war somewhere in this world, well because first off, GEORGIA is an Ally of the US, thats enuff for you to know why all this fuss is happening, its either you are with the US or with Russia, but for the US they dont care if your an ally or not, Same with the russians, theyd sell you out for a peice of land or something which helps destroy its enemies.

    Why do you think the US of A supplies Pakistan and East India with modern weapons, and allows them to hold Nuclear warheads and bombs when both those nations arent permanent members of the United nations? simply so theyd bomb the hell out of eachother one day when things to get to worse.

    I apologize if i went a little bit of topic, but thats the truth, whether you like it or not
     

    SoundAttack

    Guru of Greatness
    Aug 25, 2007
    151
    the Georgians thought that the USA and NATO will come and help them but they now know that was a wrong calculations since nato will not go into war with russia for georgia
    They wont directly, but indirectly they're capable of way too many things, if worse comes to worse, they would use tactics to destabalize russia, theyr good at things like that, even make the world go against the Russians, but whats stopping them is that Russians depend alot on the U.S. U.S makes $$ out of Russia, so why bomb a secret ally in there face, theyd rather do it secretly, here is where when the CIA comes to work.
     

    SoundAttack

    Guru of Greatness
    Aug 25, 2007
    151
    You should have listend to whole dialogue.

    Lavrov Directly said to Rice that "Saakashvili must go" DO U GET WHAT IT MEANS?

    What the heck is he talking about? What Kosovo? They should answer for all this; They should get slapped in the face!

    They hate democracy, they hate everything free, and they are direct OCCUPANTS!

    your best bet is to buy yourself a shitload of Ammos, an AK 47 or maybe an RPG or anything which could sniple from far away, a dagger and a pistol, and if you still got cash get a bullet proof vest, go tell your friends to do the samething, go on the streets protect your neighbourhoods cause the Russians are coming, if you cant beat them, kill as many as you can off them, thats your country, dont let the agressors to suck your blood dry, show them what your made off, the more you stand united in your stance, the more powerful you get. :D
     

    Nicholas

    MIRKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Jan 30, 2008
    38,737
    The BTC Pipeline was funded by many U.K tax payers,it is the major pipeline that pumps Oil to Britain and around Europe(correct me if I'm wrong),but I know for definate that its Britains main source of Oil hence why we funded it,Tbh I really don't think Russia are willing to even 'accidently' destroy it,I really done feel there in any situation to have NATO and the EU knocking on its doors atm.
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    116,175
    Let me tell you something, its not about an endless cycle or anything, US of A meddles in every country with resources i dont know much about georgia but there has to be something in it for them, Didnt the US trick saddam into occupying Kuwait? then screwed him up big time, with the US, nothing is formiddable, they probably wont help the georgians till theyr guaranteed a catch out of all this, theyr probably doing under the table talk with the russians to continue whatever it is theyr doing, while on the other hand working with the georgians to get something out of it, you can like it or not, but the USA is known to do dirty work, then eliminate its own Allies.

    Remember the Shah of Iran? Saddam hussein? bin laden? Lebanon? now its georgias turn, dont turn a blind eye for the sake of it.

    And about the guy who mentioned, why does it always have to be the US of A's fault if theres a war somewhere in this world, well because first off, GEORGIA is an Ally of the US, thats enuff for you to know why all this fuss is happening, its either you are with the US or with Russia, but for the US they dont care if your an ally or not, Same with the russians, theyd sell you out for a peice of land or something which helps destroy its enemies.

    Why do you think the US of A supplies Pakistan and East India with modern weapons, and allows them to hold Nuclear warheads and bombs when both those nations arent permanent members of the United nations? simply so theyd bomb the hell out of eachother one day when things to get to worse.

    I apologize if i went a little bit of topic, but thats the truth, whether you like it or not
    I agree with much of what you have written, but I believe in this instance you have taken it a little far. You don't have proof of the United States setting Georgia up for destruction just for the sake of natural resources. Last time I checked, Georgia doesn't have much oil compared to Iraq, except for what runs through the BTC Pipeline.

    While the US has exploited various places for resources, such as Kosova, you can't assume the US had a hand in this conflict because Russia isn't exactly willing to do business with us regarding Georgia.
     

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