Capital Punishment (27 Viewers)

[Snoop]

This is one of the best topic to discuss,Mods I know this will not go anywhere,but keep it open.I want to hear everyone's opinion.
No Insult allowed,anyone who's not serious,find another thread to show how cool you are..

I want to reply to Vinman's post.
My point wasn't specifically to that person,I am talking In general.there are thousands way to keep people safe from those "animals" like you described. you said why I should pay taxes to help those people,I replied you instead of paying my taxes to use it in nuclear weapons or on war(not only USA,most of the nations in the world have the priority to make his army stronger),I would prefer to pay it on those to make them better,Killing is not the solution.we don't know what life he had that person or anyon else to commit crimes,we don't know how they were abused by their parents, or who taught them the wrong way by nurture,instead if they hire psycologists that can help them,wouldn't be that much better?

 

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[Layce Erayce]

Psychologists would indeed be better, but the belief behind that treatment is that its nobody's fault- everybody is a product of nature and nurture, so there is no free will.

Why cant you put murderers for psychological treatment and cure them? Rapists?

I believe in the death penalty, not because I am a cruel sadistic fucking bastard, but because people need severe consequences in order to obey rules.

Besides, mentally sane people already know that doing something really really bad could send you to death. But they do it anyway. Is that the government's responsibility for the murder or the people's responsiblity?

If a person see's a puddle and walks into it on purpose, isnt he responsible for doing that?

 

[JCK]

Psychologists would indeed be better, but the belief behind that treatment is that its nobody's fault- everybody is a product of nature and nurture, so there is no free will.

Why cant you put murderers for psychological treatment and cure them? Rapists?

I believe in the death penalty, not because I am a cruel sadistic fucking bastard, but because people need severe consequences in order to obey rules.

Besides, mentally sane people already know that doing something really really bad could send you to death. But they do it anyway. Is that the government's responsibility for the murder or the people's responsiblity?

If a person see's a puddle and walks into it on purpose, isnt he responsible for doing that?

Putting one rapist to death does not prevent another from doing his crime. It has been going on for ages and it never prevented these crimes nor any other crimes. The only thing it is serving is revenge.

The issue of psychological treatment that snoop started is bigger than what he just mentioned. Treatment should cover more than just the criminals, more than the ones who have done the mistake already. It can start earlier but this is a costy project and some nations are interested in other things than the improvement of their own society.

I don't want no Babylon system. Listen more to reggae and the world will be a better place.

 

[Snoop]

Psychologists would indeed be better, but the belief behind that treatment is that its nobody's fault- everybody is a product of nature and nurture, so there is no free will.

Why cant you put murderers for psychological treatment and cure them? Rapists?

I believe in the death penalty, not because I am a cruel sadistic fucking bastard, but because people need severe consequences in order to obey rules.

Besides, mentally sane people already know that doing something really really bad could send you to death. But they do it anyway. Is that the government's responsibility for the murder or the people's responsiblity?

If a person see's a puddle and walks into it on purpose, isnt he responsible for doing that?

ofcourse I am not saying that.I am just against the death penalty.yes they should be jailed,to keep everyone safe from them,but if they are still behaving bad in Jail and no solution done by psycologists ,create another Jail,with a maximum security, give them hard life.keep them in prison seperate from others, let him alone and give him hard jobs (if that's the worst punishment you want to give him),I don't think any criminal would like that,they would prefer death over that.

but just don't be a murderer like him,and kill him.

and another thing,what if the guy was innocent (anyone),don't tell me that there is no innocent person sentenced to death ,and not proven later that he was innocent after years from his death.

I will give you one example,i don't want to interefer religion with this,but It is a good example.what about the Jesus punishmenmt,wasn't that under law to leave him to death on the cross,and the people asked then to death?don't you feel yourself someway like that? supporting the death penalty whitout even knowing the guy what he is about.

 

[Holygr4le]

Putting one rapist to death does not prevent another from doing his crime. It has been going on for ages and it never prevented these crimes nor any other crimes. The only thing it is serving is revenge.

The issue of psychological treatment that snoop started is bigger than what he just mentioned. Treatment should cover more than just the criminals, more than the ones who have done the mistake already. It can start earlier but this is a costy project and some nations are interested in other things than the improvement of their own society.

What governments have lacked to prevent or/and understand is that the “treatment” you are talking about is our lives. It starts directly when you are borne.
We need to be respected for those we are.
Stop the; segregation, poverty and equal the classes. Educate and enlighten people. Stop protecting your personal boarders with fear and learn from other.
If you want to se lesser rapist you have to start putting the money and the efforts where they are needed.

 

[JCK]

What governments have lacked to prevent or/and understand is that the “treatment” you are talking about is our lives. It starts directly when you are borne.
We need to be respected for those we are.
Stop the; segregation, poverty and equal the classes. Educate and enlighten people. Stop protecting your personal boarders with fear and learn from other.
If you want to se lesser rapist you have to start putting the money and the efforts where they are needed.

The nordic countries, Holland and Canada follow the policy you are talking about. Respect! However, I see people mocking social welfare and get angry at using their tax money for the benefit of the society at large. Well if these people prefer that their tax money be used to increase their civil defence, they have to suffer the consequences of attacks from the inside.

 

[Holygr4le]

The nordic countries, Holland and Canada follow the policy you are talking about.

Are they? Here in Sweden we tend idolize USA. Starts showing now.

Respect! However, I see people mocking social welfare and get angry at using their tax money for the benefit of the society at large. Well if these people prefer that their tax money be used to increase their civil defence, they have to suffer the consequences of attacks from the inside.

Respect right back!
However when administration gets to administrated that creates a huge problem.
In Sweden for example the government needs 8 times in regarding to what gets out. So for a school to get 100 000$ the taxpayers has to pay 800 000$.

 

[JCK]

Are they? Here in Sweden we tend idolize USA. Starts showing now.

Respect right back!
However when administration gets to administrated that creates a huge problem.
In Sweden for example the government needs 8 times in regarding to what gets out. So for a school to get 100 000$ the taxpayers has to pay 800 000$.

Jon, don't go into these details in the system. It is working fine, your kids are having the best education, they are being rased properly and they will have a great life in their higher education.

There are other benefits that are being provided that I won't go through. I know you complain at the high taxes you pay, I complain at them too. But I know it is for the good and for the bad.

Sweden idiolizing the USA is a political issue and it is bringing in money (lots of them), if you know what I mean.

 

[Snoop]

guys Please don't mention Countries,It will end up to political arguements and the thread will get closed.

just stay focused on the main topic

 

[Layce Erayce]

Putting one rapist to death does not prevent another from doing his crime. It has been going on for ages and it never prevented these crimes nor any other crimes. The only thing it is serving is revenge.

The issue of psychological treatment that snoop started is bigger than what he just mentioned. Treatment should cover more than just the criminals, more than the ones who have done the mistake already. It can start earlier but this is a costy project and some nations are interested in other things than the improvement of their own society.

I don't want no Babylon system. Listen more to reggae and the world will be a better place.

It hasnt completely prevented the crimes, but it has served as quite a bit of a deterrent, no? If raping women didnt have any consequences then I bet everyone would be doing it.

I do agree that psychological influence should start from childhood to prevent all kinds of things from developing as they grow older. But arent there any repercussions of that? Childrens lives shouldnt revolve around the DSM-IV and onwards. Besides, we all know that the field takes certain stances with regards to moral issues which they shouldnt do.

Snoop- I understand your argument that the death penalty is inhumane. And I used to think that too. But I will never understand what compells someone to kill- maybe it is their fault, maybe it is not. But I know that malicious people who do bad things to people and dont feel guilt or care dont deserve nice little jails.

 

[Holygr4le]

Jon, don't go into these details in the system. It is working fine, your kids are having the best education, they are being rased properly and they will have a great life in their higher education.

True with modification. Sweden has dropped in the standards. As a concrete example: 1990 Sweden had 1300 hospital beds per 100 000 inhabitants. That is top 3 in Europe. 2002 we had 350… That’s place 24…

There are other benefits that are being provided that I won't go through. I know you complain at the high taxes you pay, I complain at them too. But I know it is for the good and for the bad.

I love to pay tax.
I do not complain to the amount, I complain how the administration uses them.

 

[Slagathor]

Are they? Here in Sweden we tend idolize USA. Starts showing now.

No idealisation of the USA is to be found in the Netherlands; merely a relatively objective observation (where media is concerned). Recent surveys show only 2 to 3% of the Dutch population is in favour of re-installment of the death penalty. I think that says enough.

 

[Holygr4le]

No idealisation of the USA is to be found in the Netherlands; merely a relatively objective observation (where media is concerned). Recent surveys show only 2 to 3% of the Dutch population is in favour of re-installment of the death penalty. I think that says enough.

Great!
I ment on a society basis. As in what you value and so on. But not many people in Sweden are in favor of dethpenalty either. Do not have any figures but would estimate that maybe 10-15% are in favor.

 

[Bozi]

No idealisation of the USA is to be found in the Netherlands; merely a relatively objective observation (where media is concerned). Recent surveys show only 2 to 3% of the Dutch population is in favour of re-installment of the death penalty. I think that says enough.

TBH i believe that the dutch are among the most liberal and open of nations, the people are well informed and i wish that in britain we should look t=o the dutch example more than we currently do.
personally i believe the use of the death penalty should be avoided, where possible as a death for a death is a sad way to function yoursociety.
however chemical castration of peadophiles and rapists is something that should be looked into

 

[Maher]

in jail for 25 years then execution??

 

[JCK]

Great!
I ment on a society basis. As in what you value and so on. But not many people in Sweden are in favor of dethpenalty either. Do not have any figures but would estimate that maybe 10-15% are in favor.

I would say that this number is also high. I am sure it is less than 10% are in favour of the death penalty.

The drop in medical beds per capita has dropped because there is something wrong in the whole medical system in Sweden. I noticed that, the country say that they want doctors, and they ask for foreigners with medical education to come to the country however they make them go through hell to be practitioners.

Then another thing, those who work in Vårdcentral don't give a toss about anything, they know their job is secure and they will get paid in the end of the month.

 

[Holygr4le]

I would say that this number is also high. I am sure it is less than 10% are in favour of the death penalty.

The drop in medical beds per capita has dropped because there is something wrong in the whole medical system in Sweden. I noticed that, the country say that they want doctors, and they ask for foreigners with medical education to come to the country however they make them go through hell to be practitioners.

Then another thing, those who work in Vårdcentral don't give a toss about anything, they know their job is secure and they will get paid in the end of the month.

Got one word for ya:

ADMINISTRATION

 

[JCK]

It hasnt completely prevented the crimes, but it has served as quite a bit of a deterrent, no? If raping women didnt have any consequences then I bet everyone would be doing it.

I do agree that psychological influence should start from childhood to prevent all kinds of things from developing as they grow older. But arent there any repercussions of that? Childrens lives shouldnt revolve around the DSM-IV and onwards. Besides, we all know that the field takes certain stances with regards to moral issues which they shouldnt do.

Snoop- I understand your argument that the death penalty is inhumane. And I used to think that too. But I will never understand what compells someone to kill- maybe it is their fault, maybe it is not. But I know that malicious people who do bad things to people and dont feel guilt or care dont deserve nice little jails.

If it has helped make the rate drop, it is does not mean it is the best solution.

 

[JCK]

Got one word for ya:

ADMINISTRATION

I totally agree, it is a plague that you have to live with. But even with this problem, the country is a much better place to live in than many other countries. I would include the other ones mentioned earlier with it.

 

[Slagathor]

Great!
I ment on a society basis. As in what you value and so on. But not many people in Sweden are in favor of dethpenalty either. Do not have any figures but would estimate that maybe 10-15% are in favor.

That's a well acceptable number! Good to hear that.

I found some other interesting information about the death penalty in Holland:

The last time the death penalty was executed in the Netherlands was on 31 October 1860 when Johan Nathan was convicted for the murder of his mother-in-law and hung that day at 10.00h in the morning.

The death penalty for all crimes was abolished in the Netherlands in 1870, almost ten years after the last execution, after a parlementary debate that had lasted 7 whole days. The final conclusion sounded as follows: "The national parliament of the Kingdom of the Netherlands with the grace of his majesty King William Alexander Paul Frederik Lodewijk has decided the death penalty as part of the criminal justice system will be abolished for all crimes on account of being too barbaric and uncivilised to still be of any use in our modern society"

Here's a list of the last 10 executions in the Netherlands:

[b]Name  	  	Sex  	Age  	Crime  	  	  Province  	  	Year[/b]
Nathan, J. 	male 	27 	murder  	  Limburg  	  	1860
Pijnacker, P. 	male 	37 	manslaughter  	  South-Holland 	1860
Graaf, Y. de 	male 	46 	murder  	  Friesland  	  	1859
Geurts, P. 	male 	23 	murder  	  Limburg  	  	1857
Klerk, A. de 	male 	47 	murder  	  North-Brabant 	1856
Jong, C. de 	male 	57 	theft  	  	  North-Brabant 	1856
Blom, A. 	male 	31 	manslaughter  	  South-Holland 	1856
Beekman, H. 	male 	50 	arson  	  	  Gelderland  	  	1855
Kemper, J. 	male 	22 	manslaughter  	  North-Holland 	1854
Loeil, J. de 	male 	58 	manslaughter  	  Zeeland  	  	1849

NB. Directly after the second world war, the death penalty was briefly re-instated for 'crimes against humanity'. This law was cancelled after the last WWII trials in 1953.

Source: http://www.cijfers.net/doodstraf.html