Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (13 Viewers)

OP
gsol

gsol

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2007
1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #11,141
    Why can't the club just stand up and say we will stay silent no more? Why can't they take up the fans discontent and fight for their name?
    Millions upon millions upon millions of euros. You don't care and I don't care but they care more about the money than anything or anyone. Those multimillion euro sponsorship deals between Telecom and Juve, Telecom and Ferrari, Gazzetta and both, won't be put at risk to save a name, history or appease fans. Juventus fans will watch games and buy up merchandise anyway...they know that.
     

    Buy on AliExpress.com

    Hust

    Senior Member
    Hustini
    May 29, 2005
    93,358
    Who seemed positive about the FIGC's ban or no ban decision? I didn't. I feel far more positive abour the civil trial in Naples.
    So, you say their backs will be up against the wall if he wins? What kind of pressure would that put on them though since they seem hell bent on blocking him for life. Also, please read my posts about taking it to FIFA AND/OR the EU courts. What are your thoughts on that if Moggi brought it that far?
    Millions upon millions upon millions of euros. You don't care and I don't care but they care more about the money than anything or anyone. Those multimillion euro sponsorship deals between Telecom and Juve, Telecom and Ferrari, Gazzetta and both, won't be put at risk to save a name, history or appease fans. Juventus fans will watch games and buy up merchandise anyway...they know that.
    The sponsorship deal wouldn't work so well if people stopped buying. I know the club won't do anything but how far is Moggi willing to take this?
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #11,143
    The sponsorship deal wouldn't work so well if people stopped buying. I know the club won't do anything but how far is Moggi willing to take this?
    1. People will never stop buying. You can't convince fans to work in unison. You think the middle aged father won't bring his 8 year old son to games because diehards like us are offended? You think the ultras will stop going so that visitor fans can have the run of their stadium? You think people won't tune in on their TVs or laptops behind closed doors? That's where the bulk of the money is. Sponsors pay because they know we will watch. Fantasizing about a mass boycott (I would be all for it for the record) is just a fantasy. Moggi says he's going as far as he has to go to clear his name but even if he goes to Europe and clears his name we won't get much out of it. It's his trial not ours, Juventus don't want him back and he's old as it is. His career is over. People need to understand one last thing that I know I have said in the past. Moggi winning does NOTHING for us if Juventus don't use that victory to their advantage. Rest assured they will do virtually nothing. To appease us they will likely request the revoked titles be returned. That is it.
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #11,145
    So, you say their backs will be up against the wall if he wins? What kind of pressure would that put on them though since they seem hell bent on blocking him for life. Also, please read my posts about taking it to FIFA AND/OR the EU courts. What are your thoughts on that if Moggi brought it that far?QUOTE]

    FIFA and UEFA are just as bad as the FIGC. You think they don't know what happened? If Moggi brings it to courts outside Italy they will be civil courts in the EU. They could conclude that the FIGC was wrong to ban Moggi and order that damages be paid to Moggi himself. At the end of the day that is what he is after because if an association does not want to grant membership or employment to someone than no one can force it. If he gets money out of it while clearing his name then at least he lost nothing. Again expect Juventus to sit quietly and do nothing.
     

    Snoop

    Sabet is a nasty virgin
    Oct 2, 2001
    28,186
    I have a question. I'm a non-Juve fan who simply came on this board to see your reactions to Vucinic's arrival. I stumbled onto this part of the page and felt this would be the best place to ask a question thats been bugging me for the last five years.

    How can Juve staff, players and fans ignore their part Calciopoli? Players claim that titles were won on the field when it's proven that referees were being influenced. Staff and fans ask for their two Scuddetto back when they're lucky it was only two they lost when surely the same circumstances that lead to their removal were going on for longer than just two years.

    Juventus are proven to have been the ring leaders of this - hence Moggi's life time ban and Juve getting the biggest sanctions.

    Do you fans simply believe Juve did nothing wrong and were framed? Or do you believe everyone in the league from Inter to Siena were doing it too so you shouldn't be punished?

    From the outside looking in it seems that everyone involved in Juve can't handle the fact they are a part of or supported a club that cheated to give themself the edge over other competitors, tarnishing a leagues reputation. Erecting Morratti as a figurehead of your innocence and claiming conspiracy when nothing happens.

    Believe me when I say this isn't a post meant to cause a fight. I simply want to hear a Juve fans side of the story. It might even be good for people on here to hear the views of a fan from another team on this big mess.

    For me personally, this one moment will sum up Juve's corruption - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBSLIgpi0c&feature=related

    One of many decisions Juve would always get. Clearly just outside the box but if a ref could get away with giving a decision in their favour they would.
    The players were great, and did their best to win and I am pretty sure they deserve the titles they won, their performances in Europe was a good example too! Juve didn't cheat, Moggi did! That's the difference, Moggi is not Juve and no one alone will represent the whole Juventus club and society. You are a fool if you believe Moggi did what he did for Juve, that mafioso mother fucker is a criminal, first thing criminals think is their pocket. And please don't tell me that Italian football is clean. All the blame went on Juventus, when we all know that a lot of directors and players get themselves into these dirty things (today you can still see them on media). I don't know which club fan are you (it doesn't matter, since you want a civilized discussion and not those childish "you are cheaters" arguments), but I am sure some of your club's directors involved in these too, proved or not, you see these dirty things every Sunday, all the refereeing favorism for "big" clubs..
     
    Nov 1, 2002
    2,482
    I have a question. I'm a non-Juve fan who simply came on this board to see your reactions to Vucinic's arrival. I stumbled onto this part of the page and felt this would be the best place to ask a question thats been bugging me for the last five years.

    How can Juve staff, players and fans ignore their part Calciopoli? Players claim that titles were won on the field when it's proven that referees were being influenced. Staff and fans ask for their two Scuddetto back when they're lucky it was only two they lost when surely the same circumstances that lead to their removal were going on for longer than just two years.

    Juventus are proven to have been the ring leaders of this - hence Moggi's life time ban and Juve getting the biggest sanctions.

    Do you fans simply believe Juve did nothing wrong and were framed? Or do you believe everyone in the league from Inter to Siena were doing it too so you shouldn't be punished?

    From the outside looking in it seems that everyone involved in Juve can't handle the fact they are a part of or supported a club that cheated to give themself the edge over other competitors, tarnishing a leagues reputation. Erecting Morratti as a figurehead of your innocence and claiming conspiracy when nothing happens.

    Believe me when I say this isn't a post meant to cause a fight. I simply want to hear a Juve fans side of the story. It might even be good for people on here to hear the views of a fan from another team on this big mess.

    For me personally, this one moment will sum up Juve's corruption - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBSLIgpi0c&feature=related

    One of many decisions Juve would always get. Clearly just outside the box but if a ref could get away with giving a decision in their favour they would.
    ur not very smart to take one video as evidence, read the previous pages of the whole story and come back to discuss again
     

    Hust

    Senior Member
    Hustini
    May 29, 2005
    93,358
    GSOL:

    So the EU courts is the only way to go. Perhaps FIFA may decide to step in if it starts getting ugly. I expect Moggi to take it as far as he can (needs) to clear his name, etc.
     

    B3N

    Floro Fckin' Flores
    May 16, 2010
    6,397
    I have a question. I'm a non-Juve fan who simply came on this board to see your reactions to Vucinic's arrival. I stumbled onto this part of the page and felt this would be the best place to ask a question thats been bugging me for the last five years.

    How can Juve staff, players and fans ignore their part Calciopoli? Players claim that titles were won on the field when it's proven that referees were being influenced. Staff and fans ask for their two Scuddetto back when they're lucky it was only two they lost when surely the same circumstances that lead to their removal were going on for longer than just two years.

    Juventus are proven to have been the ring leaders of this - hence Moggi's life time ban and Juve getting the biggest sanctions.

    Do you fans simply believe Juve did nothing wrong and were framed? Or do you believe everyone in the league from Inter to Siena were doing it too so you shouldn't be punished?

    From the outside looking in it seems that everyone involved in Juve can't handle the fact they are a part of or supported a club that cheated to give themself the edge over other competitors, tarnishing a leagues reputation. Erecting Morratti as a figurehead of your innocence and claiming conspiracy when nothing happens.

    Believe me when I say this isn't a post meant to cause a fight. I simply want to hear a Juve fans side of the story. It might even be good for people on here to hear the views of a fan from another team on this big mess.

    For me personally, this one moment will sum up Juve's corruption - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBSLIgpi0c&feature=related

    One of many decisions Juve would always get. Clearly just outside the box but if a ref could get away with giving a decision in their favour they would.
    Shut up Nicole!
     

    JuveJay

    Senior Signor
    Moderator
    Mar 6, 2007
    72,477
    How can Juve staff, players and fans ignore their part Calciopoli? Players claim that titles were won on the field when it's proven that referees were being influenced.
    'Proven' with next to no evidence, as admitted in the courts.

    Juventus are proven to have been the ring leaders of this - hence Moggi's life time ban and Juve getting the biggest sanctions.
    If the organisation who hands down the punishments is incompetent and biased, as has been proven over the last few years, then it doesn't deserve credit. Calciopoli was created to make an example of one group and club, it was filtered that way. If you read on...

    For me personally, this one moment will sum up Juve's corruption - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBSLIgpi0c&feature=related

    One of many decisions Juve would always get. Clearly just outside the box but if a ref could get away with giving a decision in their favour they would.
    If these incidents happened for Man Utd or Barcelona they would be classed as decisions that happen for a big club, just like those that benefited Milan and Inter, because that's what they are. Throw in a 'scandal' and they become match fixing. Now every decision looks suspicious.

    I made this highly condensed timeline of events for someone else who knew next to nothing about Calciopoli aside from the general media consensus, it's relevant up to October 2010 and I assume is correct based on information released:

    - 2002-2006: Telecom Italia (Inter sister company) made wiretaps on many people, Moggi and refs some of them, scandal broke based on those calls.

    - Spring 2006: Information on Juventus, Milan, Fiorentina and several others claimed, no wiretaps involving Inter personnel. Recent witnesses in court have said that the Rome police (who were dealing with evidence) would not accept any Inter-based evidence, they were only interested in Juve. They also actually used La Gazzetta dello Sport (Milan-based paper with ties to both Inter and Milan) as a source of evidence through their journalist's articles, even though on several occasions they were factually wrong. One instance is of a player who was supposedly suspended for the Juve game on purpose by a referee, who actually played against Juve. These were incredibly used in the sporting trial of 2006 which demoted Juventus.

    - Summer 2006: Juve found guilty in a trial that lasted a couple of weeks. Others found guilty and demoted also, but Milan funnily enough had theirs reduced to a measly -8 points so they finished in the CL places. Juve ended up as the only team demoted.
    The sentencing found there was no evidence of match fixing (an article 6 violation that equals demotion) in any Juventus or related game, only Lecce-Parma has some suspicion (not relevant to Juve). Juve were found guilty of 6 article 1 violations (unsportsmanship to a ref - points deduction). They added these together to equal an article 6 violation (match fixing) and deducted Juve 91 points, plus demotion down two divisions plus -30 in that division (Serie C1), so it would take them years to return. This was reduced to Serie B and -9 on appeal.
    Juve chairman Cobolli Gigli was under pressure from UEFA and the FIGC to accept the verdict as the Italian places in Europe needed to be finalised in a month, so the club didn't challenge it. One judge later said that if Juve had there was such a lack of evidence they would certainly have not been demoted.

    - Summer 2007: Juve back in Serie A

    - Feb 2008: Inter and Milan are acquitted of sporting fraud dating 2003-2007, as Berlusconi had previously passed laws that prevented backdating of cases. Smaller teams had been demoted for less.

    - Feb 2008: Phone tap evidence involving Inter officials and Telecom Italia employees is mentioned in La Stampa (Turin-based newspaper), but swiftly removed. It involves Inter wiretapping Christian Vieri's phone and their relationship with referees.

    - Mar 2008: Guido Rossi (Inter director who took over the FIGC in summer 2006 and gave Inter their cardboard scudetto) takes over as a consultant for FIAT, who are of course the owners of Juventus under the IFIL/Exor group.
    Moggi's appeal for his ban is rejected

    - Jan 2009: Moggi given a suspended prison sentence for illegal Swiss SIM cards, although no evidence was found on contacts. Only Moggi and his son were targeted, no one else at the GEA company who are football agents.
    The first batch of new evidence on 'Calciopoli 2' is due to be heard but was postponed.

    - Mar 2009: Franco Carraro, ex-ref chief, is cleared of all charges.

    - Nov 2009: Christian Vieri claims it was all a conspiracy to remove Juventus from the competition. He claims he has documents to prove it.

    - Dec 2009 - Mar 2010: First Calciopoli II hearings, referees give their version of events in court and indict Inter and Milan heavily in asking for favourable officials from referee designators. Many officials who were quick to blame Juve in 2006 are now backtracking.

    - Mar 2010 - wiretaps involving Milan and Inter officials have been found.

    - Apr 2010 - Vieri sues Inter and demands they be stripped of the 2005-06 scudetto. Moggi and Moratti agree to drop a defamation suit against each other.
    Wiretaps of Moratti speaking to Bergamo (ref designator) about referees are published. Meani (Milan referee concierge) speaking to him also, refusing certain officials.
    Wiretaps of Facchetti (Inter legend and president) talking to Bergamo are published. Bergamo says 'we will win together'. Many other articles involving Milan and Inter officials come out, some very damning. I can link to any of these. Facchetti actually spoke directly to a referee (De Santis - who was claimed as pro-Juve in the original sporting trial).
    Juventus officially take tentative legal action. FIGC chief Giancarlo Abete promises an official review.
    In total there are over 171,000 calls involving other teams that were not looked at in 2006, because they wanted a quick trial.
    New calls accepted as evidence by Judge Tasoria.
    Other teams consider legal action.
    John Elkann (Juve president 2006-2010) asks for the 05-06 title to be unassigned.

    - May 2010: It emerges Inter director Marco Branca also bought Swiss SIM cards from the same store as Moggi.
    Deputy Chief Prosecutor of Italian football is now the number 3 of Telecom Italia.
    More calls are transcribed.

    - Jun 2010: More court proceedings, referees say there was no pressure to favour Juventus.

    - Aug 2010: new Juventus president Andrea Agnelli requests revoked scudetti are returned to the club.

    - Oct 2010: Latest court proceedings. Collina claims he was never influenced, although his wiretaps have him strongly linked to Milan. Certainly not to Juve. Remember he is the ref who forced Juve to play a scudetto decider in a bog in Perugia.
    141 more calls put forward. More transcribed involving Facchetti and others.
    The Roman police chief Auricchio (who has been found guilty of corruption before), the guy who only wanted to accept anti-Juve evidence, says that the griglia (refs draw) was regular and not fixed.

    To be continued...

    Also read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SISMI-Telecom_scandal
    There is a fair amount to add, maybe I'll get around to it some time.

    I don't think anyone suggests that Moggi is a whiter than white character, but with the evidence available now there is no possible way in which the supposed Moggi system could be real. He was a leading figure at a leading club working his angle the same as everyone else. It's Italy, the game isn't clean, as if recent developments weren't testimony to that...
     

    enzodileto

    Junior Member
    Aug 30, 2009
    123
    I have a question. I'm a non-Juve fan who simply came on this board to see your reactions to Vucinic's arrival. I stumbled onto this part of the page and felt this would be the best place to ask a question thats been bugging me for the last five years.

    How can Juve staff, players and fans ignore their part Calciopoli? Players claim that titles were won on the field when it's proven that referees were being influenced. Staff and fans ask for their two Scuddetto back when they're lucky it was only two they lost when surely the same circumstances that lead to their removal were going on for longer than just two years.

    Juventus are proven to have been the ring leaders of this - hence Moggi's life time ban and Juve getting the biggest sanctions.

    Do you fans simply believe Juve did nothing wrong and were framed? Or do you believe everyone in the league from Inter to Siena were doing it too so you shouldn't be punished?

    From the outside looking in it seems that everyone involved in Juve can't handle the fact they are a part of or supported a club that cheated to give themself the edge over other competitors, tarnishing a leagues reputation. Erecting Morratti as a figurehead of your innocence and claiming conspiracy when nothing happens.

    Believe me when I say this isn't a post meant to cause a fight. I simply want to hear a Juve fans side of the story. It might even be good for people on here to hear the views of a fan from another team on this big mess.

    For me personally, this one moment will sum up Juve's corruption - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBSLIgpi0c&feature=related

    One of many decisions Juve would always get. Clearly just outside the box but if a ref could get away with giving a decision in their favour they would.
    Just like 95% of non Juve fans out there you only read the stories printed in the mainstream media which is controlled by 'you know who'...

    If you were that interested you would sift through the new evidence presented in the Naples trial and draw a new conclusion.

    By the way it is fucking obvious you are a fan of the scum... Interista...
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #11,157
    Hustini I have no faith in FIFA. Going the Civil route in my opinion would be better.

    Snoop, everyone has opinions. If you make a claim like "Moggi cheated" and accompany it with nothing factual than your statement loses any kind of clout. So far Civil Court after Civil Court has stated that he didn't cheat. That holds a different kind of credibility. Even the sporting tribunals admitted that he didn't cheat. In any case I am about through arguing with people that refute facts as they emerge because they prefer sitting on a fence and making friends with everyone (i.e. yes I am a Juve fan but I hate Moggi so don't hate me). I don't pretend to know everything but I know that he has not been found guilty by anyone of cheating and despite being put through the ringer for 5 years no one has managed to prove a single cheating charge against him. If you know something we don't, by all means head to Napoli and have him convicted lawfully for once. Until then accept that what you were sold 5 years ago had holes in it to say the least.

    Oh and I'm not paranoid, that slogan is a staple of the Fighters.
     

    Snoop

    Sabet is a nasty virgin
    Oct 2, 2001
    28,186
    Hustini I have no faith in FIFA. Going the Civil route in my opinion would be better.

    Snoop, everyone has opinions. If you make a claim like "Moggi cheated" and accompany it with nothing factual than your statement loses any kind of clout. So far Civil Court after Civil Court has stated that he didn't cheat. That holds a different kind of credibility. Even the sporting tribunals admitted that he didn't cheat. In any case I am about through arguing with people that refute facts as they emerge because they prefer sitting on a fence and making friends with everyone (i.e. yes I am a Juve fan but I hate Moggi so don't hate me). I don't pretend to know everything but I know that he has not been found guilty by anyone of cheating and despite being put through the ringer for 5 years no one has managed to prove a single cheating charge against him. If you know something we don't, by all means head to Napoli and have him convicted lawfully for once. Until then accept that what you were sold 5 years ago had holes in it to say the least.

    Oh and I'm not paranoid, that slogan is a staple of the Fighters.
    you call mine opinion and yours facts? actually mine is more close to fact and yours are opinions and are not valid, at least that's what court says, he isn't getting punished for nothing :)
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #11,160
    "- Jan 2009: Moggi given a suspended prison sentence for illegal Swiss SIM cards, although no evidence was found on contacts. Only Moggi and his son were targeted, no one else at the GEA company who are football agents."

    The suspended sentence wasn’t for the Cards. That amounted to nothing. It was for pushing two players (Bodyanski and Blasi) into accepting sale terms otherwise they would simply remain benched at Juventus. Blasi already admitted that he did not feel pressure to move and actually used it as an excuse to get rid of his agent who he felt bad firing. On appeal this will likely disappear as well and even if it stood…it’s isn’t cheating.
     

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