Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (23 Viewers)

[Hydde]

Dude you have to be realistic though. It's Italy, corruption taken to a new level. The president of FIGC openly says he'll consider giving back the titles if we drop the charges. He wants to save his skin and that kind of announcement is laughable from him. He either thinks we're guilty so we don't deserve anything or he thinks we're clean and then we should be given both.
At the end of the day he wants to negotiate to avoid the FIGC bankruptcy.

Before they were hiding behind SOL, now when they see $#@! got real they suddenly can ignore it and get back to the case.

My opinion is we should focus on getting the scudetti back which would clear our name. It's Italy after all and FIGC is a strong opponent to fight against. If we go all the way with our demands no judge in Italy will give us anything. Any judge in Italy would be afraid of the $#@!storm it would cause and I'm sure FIGC knows how to deal in this kind of situations. They are corrupted and operate that way on regular basis.

It would be nice if we got the SOL dropped so we'd get our titles back and maybe in the same process got inter punished
Also I think many people underrate the importance of clearing our name and the two scudetti. It would have a massively positive impact in rebuilding our brand. More supporters, more companies interested in cooperation, less pressure in Serie A every time some loser opens his mouth. After all we'd be the victims of the system, not 'creators' of it. It's all possible and up for our grabs.
FIGC know they can't do jack $#@! to us right now because we're the only Italian club capable of competing with the big boys in Europe (on sporting and financial level). They know this but we have to stay realistic or we'll be left empty handed in the end.

WHat changed after the Moggi trials that now Tavecchio is terrified?. What happeend to the SOL?

 

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[Seven]

Realistically, how the heck juventus can forcé FIGC to pay 400 friggin mils?

Thats an insane sum.

This is a fair point but do you think we are possibly just high-balling in order to get a good deal after the inevitable negotiation period?

Dude you have to be realistic though. It's Italy, corruption taken to a new level. The president of FIGC openly says he'll consider giving back the titles if we drop the charges. He wants to save his skin and that kind of announcement is laughable from him. He either thinks we're guilty so we don't deserve anything or he thinks we're clean and then we should be given both.

Obviously we are never going to see 400 million Euros. I don't know how they arrived at that number and frankly I think it's impossible to correctly estimate the damage done to us anyway.

However it's not a possibility to accept that we were wronged and agree to what is basically just a formal apology. Our club was as good as dead. And even if we survived we spent a year in B, lost a lot of good players and were set back years if not decades. There is no way you can let something like that slide.

Another important point is how this would come across. People would still be convinced we were guilty, because if you're wronged you are compensated, that's how the world works, right? If we get a hefty settlement everyone will have to admit that we clearly did nothing wrong.

 

[JCK]

I think we'd better call Saul.

 

[Azzurri7]

 

[JuveMkd]

WHat changed after the Moggi trials that now Tavecchio is terrified?. What happeend to the SOL?

Only one judge was found guilty that was connected to us and he's track record proves that he made bad call against us. So they fear we'll sue for damages and i think there are no SOL in that case. As for getting anything out of them is still a long shot.

 

[Scottish]

Obviously we are never going to see 400 million Euros. I don't know how they arrived at that number and frankly I think it's impossible to correctly estimate the damage done to us anyway.

However it's not a possibility to accept that we were wronged and agree to what is basically just a formal apology. Our club was as good as dead. And even if we survived we spent a year in B, lost a lot of good players and were set back years if not decades. There is no way you can let something like that slide.

Another important point is how this would come across. People would still be convinced we were guilty, because if you're wronged you are compensated, that's how the world works, right? If we get a hefty settlement everyone will have to admit that we clearly did nothing wrong.

How would you feel about us getting our titles back and Milan and Inter both being relegated as they should have been in 2006?

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With no cash settlement.

 

[JuveMkd]

How would you feel about us getting our titles back and Milan and Inter both being relegated as they should have been in 2006?

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With no cash settlement.

If we can blackmail the FICG into changing their law about the SOL to not be included in the case there are more than enough evidence that they'll be relegated and we would take our scudetti.

 

[Seven]

I think we'd better call Saul.

Frankly I suspect the sheer vastness of this case is more of a problem than the actual complexity. We need very boring lawyers I'm afraid .

How would you feel about us getting our titles back and Milan and Inter both being relegated as they should have been in 2006?

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With no cash settlement.

Not a possibility IMO. First of all I doubt there is enough evidence to prove Milan and Inter should have been relegated. Perhaps we could make a case that if Juventus were relegated, they should have been too. But that hardly means they should be relegated now.

Milan and Inter also have no real part in what goes on between the FIGC and Juve.

 

[Scottish]

If we can blackmail the FICG into changing their law about the SOL to not be included in the case there are more than enough evidence that they'll be relegated and we would take our scudetti.

That's what I'm thinking. I think we have a hell of a strong case for getting that huge sum of money in compensation - although the Italian justice system might make that difficult - so perhaps, instead of being crippled, the FIGC will agree to punish those two as was stated as just in the report by Palazzi. I'm wondering if Seven thinks that's acceptable since it will have the same kind of effect on our reputation as if we were given all dat green.

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Frankly I suspect the sheer vastness of this case is more of a problem than the actual complexity. We need very boring lawyers I'm afraid .



Not a possibility IMO. First of all I doubt there is enough evidence to prove Milan and Inter should have been relegated. Perhaps we could make a case that if Juventus were relegated, they should have been too. But that hardly means they should be relegated now.

Milan and Inter also have no real part in what goes on between the FIGC and Juve.

I'm referring to the report by Palazzi - posted by Jem a few pages ago - which was released the day after the SOL kicked in. It said that Livorno, Milan and Inter should have been relegated and we should not have been. He was the FIGC's chief prosecutor at the time.

 

[Seven]

I'm referring to the report by Palazzi - posted by Jem a few pages ago - which was released the day after the SOL kicked in. It said that Livorno, Milan and Inter should have been relegated and we should not have been. He was the FIGC's chief prosecutor at the time.

We can use that report to ask for compensation and our titles. But it is not for us to ask that Milan and Inter are relegated before a civil court. I mean, theoretically we could, but it'd be a long shot as there are other less damaging ways of compensating us. It will definitely not ever be part of a settlement, that much is clear.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Obviously we are never going to see 400 million Euros. I don't know how they arrived at that number and frankly I think it's impossible to correctly estimate the damage done to us anyway.

However it's not a possibility to accept that we were wronged and agree to what is basically just a formal apology. Our club was as good as dead. And even if we survived we spent a year in B, lost a lot of good players and were set back years if not decades. There is no way you can let something like that slide.

Another important point is how this would come across. People would still be convinced we were guilty, because if you're wronged you are compensated, that's how the world works, right? If we get a hefty settlement everyone will have to admit that we clearly did nothing wrong.

Yes that's correct they should give us back the scudetti AND pay the compensation but to achieve that you need a proper justice system which in Italy is simply nonexistent. We won't see a penny and I think it's safe to take it for granted. You could win something like this in US I guess but not in Italy.

Other than that you just answered yourself why it's impossible: no one can actually define properly the losses. I read about how they came to the 443m compensation and I'll tell you it still seems to be too low as to my liking.

 

[Raz]

Even if they tell them to pay us the 400 mil, where would that money come from? The league would go bankrupt.

 

[Seven]

Yes that's correct they should give us back the scudetti AND pay the compensation but to achieve that you need a proper justice system which in Italy is simply nonexistent. We won't see a penny and I think it's safe to take it for granted. You could win something like this in US I guess but not in Italy.

Other than that you just answered yourself why it's impossible: no one can actually define properly the losses. I read about how they came to the 443m compensation and I'll tell you it still seems to be too low as to my liking.

I don't know the Italian justice system. And neither do you. So far the actual rulings have been okay. It's the FIGC's actions and the Italian public officials that have been awful. The courts? Meh, could be worse.

Even if they tell them to pay us the 400 mil, where would that money come from? The league would go bankrupt.

They could come an agreement with periodic payments. But I think the sum would just go way down, if we are awarded anything in the first place. The money is not really important to me. It is important that we are awarded something however, just to make it clear to everyone that we did nothing wrong.

 

[Ocelot]

They could come an agreement with periodic payments. But I think the sum would just go way down, if we are awarded anything in the first place. The money is not really important to me. It is important that we are awarded something however, just to make it clear to everyone that we did nothing wrong.

The problem that I see is that with demands too high we might jeopardize our claim as a whole.

 

[Jem83]

The problem that I see is that with demands too high we might jeopardize our claim as a whole.

No need to worry about that. The demand isn't just taken out of the blue, out of thin air. In tort law, any damages claim must reflect the actual financial losses that have been suffered. In this case, this happens to be 400-something million euros.

Hypothetically, however, if we were to be awarded this sum, the court could enforce rules that bring the amount down to a more "reasonable" level. European legal systems typically have such "safety valves", preventing financial ruin on behalf of the malfeasor/wrongdoer/objectively liable party. (As opposed to the US, where you are on your own, and if you can't handle payments you crash and burn.)

But that is a question for the courts to decide upon, not us. All we have to do is step up with a claim for damages reflecting the exact financial losses that we've suffered, and evidence to prove that liability for such losses must be placed on the FIGC. The fact that this amount is very high is not our problem. Courts will handle the rest.

 

[only-juve]

How about taking the whole case to the European courts ?

If we're found innocent then for sure we can ask for our titles plus money. I know it's great that we can take our titles back but we've lost "a lot" from being thrown to Serie B and someone has to pay for this.

Seriously, even a fockin 3rd world country you won't shiits like that happens. The whole thing is beyond a joke.

 

[Jem83]

How about taking the whole case to the European courts ?

If we're found innocent then for sure we can ask for our titles plus money. I know it's great that we can take our titles back but we've lost "a lot" from being thrown to Serie B and someone has to pay for this.

Seriously, even a fockin 3rd world country you won't shiits like that happens. The whole thing is beyond a joke.

1. Can only be done once all national courts / venues have been exhausted. And even then there are some criteria that must be met. First we'd have to find an article in the European Convention on Human Rights that fits the case, and second; the European Court would have to decide whether or not a "legal person" (Juventus being a company) as opposed to a private person of flesh and blood (which the ECHR is mainly intended for) is protected under that article. Companies are protected under some articles of the convention, but not all.

2. The ECtHR doesn't award damages, it just rules whether or not the state party commited a human rights' violation or not. State parties who have been deemed to be in violation of the ECHR, though, typically will rectify whatever they did wrong.

I realize you may already know all of this, but well, I think it could be worth posting anyway, as I'm sure there are many here who wonder if we can go straight to the European Courts.

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My personal opinion on our potential lawsuit:

Outcome is pretty much open. Good attorneys could argue very well on behalf of Juve, but also on behalf of the FIGC. Impossible to predict an outcome. However, with the Palazzi report + the latest Moggi ruling, I believe we stand a decent chance.

A very important thing that should be pointed out is that in tort law or any kind of civil law for that matter, in order to prove something (we are trying to prove that FIGC are liable for our losses), the "burden of proof" is that you have to prove something by 50,01 % probability (an 'overweight of probability'). Unlike criminal law, where something (due to the tragedy of punishing an innocent person) must be proven 'beyond reasonable doubt', which is a lot higher.

Since the burden of proof is much lower in tort law, and since we have what appears to be a good case, I'd love to see us have a go for it.

 

[satfootball]

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2015/04/inter-volunteer-to-return-two-scudettos-to-juve/

 

[j0ker]

April's joke?

 

[satfootball]

yes