Can anyone get me a link for the FIGC report that announced Inter's guilt and Juve's innocence?
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Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter gsol
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Juve waiting for the TNAS decision about their competence to judge in Calciopoli, if the decision is negative. Juve are going to appeal to the administrative court.
Juve will ask for 250/300 in damages and the 2 scudettos.
In another news, Moggi said that he'll ask Moratti 30mil in damages but not now, he'll do it in the right time.
:xfinger:
Juve will ask for 250/300 in damages and the 2 scudettos.
In another news, Moggi said that he'll ask Moratti 30mil in damages but not now, he'll do it in the right time.
:xfinger:
Moggi resigned because he wanted to distance himself from Juventus’ legal team.
He wanted to fight, they didn’t. He couldn’t afford to have Zaccone defending him when Zaccone was being told to rollover by the Elkunts. He also understood that at the next general meeting he would be fired.
Moggi nearly going to Milan is not new. It was in his book which was released in 2008. That makes him less Juventino? What was he supposed to do? If you hear that your employers are trying to get rid of you and your partner (and we know he knew because he was recorded talking about it) then wouldn’t you seek employment elsewhere? Funny thing is he didn’t seek out Milan, they sought him out.
Remember that he was never Juventino to start with. He worked for Torino, Napoli and Roma (all rivals) and was an Interista as a kid (almost went there too). So what? No longer a Juve legend? Guess that means Lippi is out too. With Montezemolo and the Elkanns pushing him out the door he should have stayed unemployed? Gone back to work in train stations? For what? To not offend us?
He didn’t say enough in 2006? What didn’t he say? He said from day 1 he did nothing out of the norm and that dialoging with the designators was encouraged.
Clearly he couldn’t come out and say “Facchetti’s calls violate article 6” because those calls were only found in the last year or so. Bottom line no one has been more vocal and he’s been doing it since the thing erupted. TV, magazines, newspapers, radio, and a book release.
John Elkann being in on it is laughable? I’m not laughing. Letting Moggi go to Milan would have given a huge edge to their most dangerous rival at the time. They wanted him out of Juve along with Giraudo to take 100% financial control of the team but they couldn’t afford to have him work for someone else especially such a close rival. Besides, letting Moggi go required a vote amongst shareholders and Moggi had the majority thanks to the on field and marketplace performances…that is until calciopoli of course.
Not saying they were in on it because I don’t know for sure but they certainly did nothing to stop it. Serie B devalued the team in the stock market allowing the Elkanns to buy up another 33% of the company’s shares cheap. Now guess who controls the Juve cash cow. It was a temporary poison pill in order to make a lifetime of profit. The motive isn’t hard to find. Again, I don’t know that they were directly involved in the plot but when it unfolded, they could have defended him and the team but they seized another opportunity instead. By the way the huge losses lasted about a month. No one else noticed that in October of 2006
Telecom sponsored Ferrari for 300 million? I recall posting the article somewhere around here once. That was a direct cheque from Moratti and Tronchetti to Montezemolo and the Elkanns. Any losses at casa FIAT were reimbursed quickly.
I love it when I read “conspiracy theory” though. It wasn’t long ago that some people would say that about every word I wrote. Where are they now?
Finally Moggi wasn’t like Secco, Marotta etc. Moggi was a sporting director when the team was financially independent and ran its own ship. Their finances were actually being kept apart from the other branches of EXOR. Now that the Elkanns bought up the majority of the team’s shares, the club is dependent and subservient to EXOR. Firing Marotta would be a joke because the Elkanns are firmly in control now. They weren’t in such a position at Juve in 2006.
“Juve had lawyers back in 2006 and they surely must have had a good look at the case before deciding not to go down the path of appeal to the TAR/TNAS etc.”
You’re right. They prepared an appeal to the TAR courts as a result but Montezemolo had it retracted which fortifies the position many have that they stood to gain something from Juve wiping the slate clean and starting over.
“I shouldn't have used the word "debt". When it comes to economics, I'm most definitely a layman, hehe. But what I meant was a massive decrease in total revenue. The tamoil deal was one of the largest, if not the largest, sponsorship-deal in the history of football, and we also lost CL, TV revenue etc. And yes, we gained a lot of this back from player sales, having lesser wages to deal with etc. So good point. But I still don't see why John Elkann would want to go through all of that just to remove one man?”
I agree, Juve had massive revenue at the time but EXOR saw none of it. Giraudo and Moggi took a hard line on the matter saying that if EXOR isn’t investing that they should not reap the benefits. It wasn’t just about getting rid of one man. It was about getting rid of him as an employee and potential adversary (Milan) and assuming financial control. Now the earnings are theirs.
“I'm just trying to understand why people actually believe that John Elkann wanted to hurt Juventus so bad, just to remove Moggi, who was nothing more than an employee that could've been removed simply by not renewing his contract, AND, who today has publically stated that he was going to leave Juventus for Milan after all?”
Your answer might be in your question. Had he gone to Milan, Berlusconi would have had all the means to become Italy and Europe’s most dominant force. Moggi had to go but not from Juve…from football. That was way more convenient to the Ekanns.
“Agnelli Company always controlled more than 60% shares, so I think it never was an option”
No they had a third. Now they have over 60%.
He wanted to fight, they didn’t. He couldn’t afford to have Zaccone defending him when Zaccone was being told to rollover by the Elkunts. He also understood that at the next general meeting he would be fired.
Moggi nearly going to Milan is not new. It was in his book which was released in 2008. That makes him less Juventino? What was he supposed to do? If you hear that your employers are trying to get rid of you and your partner (and we know he knew because he was recorded talking about it) then wouldn’t you seek employment elsewhere? Funny thing is he didn’t seek out Milan, they sought him out.
Remember that he was never Juventino to start with. He worked for Torino, Napoli and Roma (all rivals) and was an Interista as a kid (almost went there too). So what? No longer a Juve legend? Guess that means Lippi is out too. With Montezemolo and the Elkanns pushing him out the door he should have stayed unemployed? Gone back to work in train stations? For what? To not offend us?
He didn’t say enough in 2006? What didn’t he say? He said from day 1 he did nothing out of the norm and that dialoging with the designators was encouraged.
Clearly he couldn’t come out and say “Facchetti’s calls violate article 6” because those calls were only found in the last year or so. Bottom line no one has been more vocal and he’s been doing it since the thing erupted. TV, magazines, newspapers, radio, and a book release.
John Elkann being in on it is laughable? I’m not laughing. Letting Moggi go to Milan would have given a huge edge to their most dangerous rival at the time. They wanted him out of Juve along with Giraudo to take 100% financial control of the team but they couldn’t afford to have him work for someone else especially such a close rival. Besides, letting Moggi go required a vote amongst shareholders and Moggi had the majority thanks to the on field and marketplace performances…that is until calciopoli of course.
Not saying they were in on it because I don’t know for sure but they certainly did nothing to stop it. Serie B devalued the team in the stock market allowing the Elkanns to buy up another 33% of the company’s shares cheap. Now guess who controls the Juve cash cow. It was a temporary poison pill in order to make a lifetime of profit. The motive isn’t hard to find. Again, I don’t know that they were directly involved in the plot but when it unfolded, they could have defended him and the team but they seized another opportunity instead. By the way the huge losses lasted about a month. No one else noticed that in October of 2006
Telecom sponsored Ferrari for 300 million? I recall posting the article somewhere around here once. That was a direct cheque from Moratti and Tronchetti to Montezemolo and the Elkanns. Any losses at casa FIAT were reimbursed quickly.
I love it when I read “conspiracy theory” though. It wasn’t long ago that some people would say that about every word I wrote. Where are they now?
Finally Moggi wasn’t like Secco, Marotta etc. Moggi was a sporting director when the team was financially independent and ran its own ship. Their finances were actually being kept apart from the other branches of EXOR. Now that the Elkanns bought up the majority of the team’s shares, the club is dependent and subservient to EXOR. Firing Marotta would be a joke because the Elkanns are firmly in control now. They weren’t in such a position at Juve in 2006.
“Juve had lawyers back in 2006 and they surely must have had a good look at the case before deciding not to go down the path of appeal to the TAR/TNAS etc.”
You’re right. They prepared an appeal to the TAR courts as a result but Montezemolo had it retracted which fortifies the position many have that they stood to gain something from Juve wiping the slate clean and starting over.
“I shouldn't have used the word "debt". When it comes to economics, I'm most definitely a layman, hehe. But what I meant was a massive decrease in total revenue. The tamoil deal was one of the largest, if not the largest, sponsorship-deal in the history of football, and we also lost CL, TV revenue etc. And yes, we gained a lot of this back from player sales, having lesser wages to deal with etc. So good point. But I still don't see why John Elkann would want to go through all of that just to remove one man?”
I agree, Juve had massive revenue at the time but EXOR saw none of it. Giraudo and Moggi took a hard line on the matter saying that if EXOR isn’t investing that they should not reap the benefits. It wasn’t just about getting rid of one man. It was about getting rid of him as an employee and potential adversary (Milan) and assuming financial control. Now the earnings are theirs.
“I'm just trying to understand why people actually believe that John Elkann wanted to hurt Juventus so bad, just to remove Moggi, who was nothing more than an employee that could've been removed simply by not renewing his contract, AND, who today has publically stated that he was going to leave Juventus for Milan after all?”
Your answer might be in your question. Had he gone to Milan, Berlusconi would have had all the means to become Italy and Europe’s most dominant force. Moggi had to go but not from Juve…from football. That was way more convenient to the Ekanns.
“Agnelli Company always controlled more than 60% shares, so I think it never was an option”
No they had a third. Now they have over 60%.
Brilliant post, gsol. Some of these things, though, simply can't be proven, but I must absolutely retract the comment I made that the "Elkann being in on it"-theory is laughable. It's really not, so I stand corrected on that one. Because there are aspects here, certain facts, which I haven't considered. Especially this part: "Serie B devalued the team in the stock market allowing the Elkanns to buy up another 33% of the company’s shares cheap."
It still doesn't prove anything, but I see how it can strengthen the theory that the Elkanns were in on it.
I'm not saying I'm buying the theory now, I'm just saying that I can no longer call it laughable.
I still find it too hard to believe.
It still doesn't prove anything, but I see how it can strengthen the theory that the Elkanns were in on it.
I'm not saying I'm buying the theory now, I'm just saying that I can no longer call it laughable.
I still find it too hard to believe.
Being hard to believe is one thing. I too won’t commit to one side or the other. It is possible and the motive for financial gain is definitely present but unless someone comes out and admits it, proof is damn near impossible which is why it is a theory.
Sticking to what we know is enough for me. They didn’t come to the team’s defense, they didn’t come to Moggi’s/Giraudo’s defense, they assumed control and made several mistakes both legal and tactical afterwards. That’s enough for me to resent them.
Sticking to what we know is enough for me. They didn’t come to the team’s defense, they didn’t come to Moggi’s/Giraudo’s defense, they assumed control and made several mistakes both legal and tactical afterwards. That’s enough for me to resent them.