Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (61 Viewers)

OP
gsol

gsol

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2007
1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #521
    The papers are conveniently quiet on this one. Plenty of people there are aware of it though. Read the banners at games and the amount of online material alone in Italian has plenty of people taking about "Intercetopoli" or "Spiopoli"
     

    Buy on AliExpress.com

    C4ISR

    Senior Member
    Dec 18, 2005
    2,362
    ßöмßäяdîëя;1489721 said:
    Then why are you arguing? The majority here don't really like you, and the majority of Juve fans in the world don't care or know about you, plus, 90% of Italy are probably informed to some extent and nothing happened or is going to happen. So.....I say to you sir, don't let the majority convince you they are the few.
    On this forum we have ppl who want the past to stay the past, despite knowing full well things werent fair.

    If were are going to make generalizations, 1 thing Ive noticed is Juve fans in Italy take gsol's view more so than the rest of us, probably because they had access to media we didn't, and werent told a million times over were cheaters as a proven fact, which alot of ppl believe despite no proof.
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    39,326
    Hmmm, if Italians like scandals so much, won't "Juventus were sentenced without a single proof and it was a conspiracy against them by this guy and that guy" be another scandal ?
    More "circenses" for the boring mornings and afternoons.
    I'm sure people will find another conspiracy yes. But in this case it won't be accepted by the public and thus I doubt there will happen anything.
     

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
    First of all make your list of favors. I guarantee I match it or better with games where Juve were held back by the same referees or where other teams benefitted from the same errors. Go ahead. Everybody is an expert so let's hear it.
    Don't say you are a fan of justice either. If you were you'd be outraged by Calciopoli. You call being convicted with no evidence justice? Look up justice.

    It is important that other clubs didn't pay because now Juve has to rebuild while they remained strong. That's a problem of the present not the past.

    i don't give a rats ass what you think of me. try proving me wrong before calling me an idiot though...good luck
    Come off it, Juventus is the most favoured club in Italy and thats not even open to debate.

    I notice that when someone says they are either Italian or live in Italy you become timid in your response and say things like you understand and all of that.

    Please quit saying its only here you find resistance and 2800 fans is not a lot as a matter of fact it is pitiful compared to the amount of fans we have so also lets not act that a lot of people are willing to go along with this futile crusade.

    But i will be most disappointed in you if you keep giving meek answers to people that say they live in Italy and know the Italian way of life as you then come accross as someone trying to recruit those that are not familiar with Italy and taking advantage of their emotions as they are bound to want to told Juventus are innocent and its all a bunch of conspirators.

    Keep up your defiance to anybody and believe in your convictions and stop back tracking because lets face it you have created an entertaining, amusing somewhat enlightening thread.

    Its like Oliver Stone directing an episode of X-Files
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #525
    "Come off it, Juventus is the most favoured club in Italy and thats not even open to debate."

    Adiconsum stated otherwise and they are a statistical research group. I trist their numbers more than yours. They analyze all 380 games every season for the FIGC in order to monitor their referee accuracy. The most referee errors in the history of Serie A stemmed from the 2003-2004 season that saw Milan win. That is up until last year when the referees beat the previous record. They also stated that the 2004-2005 season would have been won taking away all referee errors. I posted their articles here before but they were in Italian so once again I'm not surprised that you are confused.

    "I notice that when someone says they are either Italian or live in Italy you become timid in your response and say things like you understand and all of that."

    No Denco, those people just make more sense than you do and are less confrontational.

    "Please quit saying its only here you find resistance and 2800 fans is not a lot as a matter of fact it is pitiful compared to the amount of fans we have so also lets not act that a lot of people are willing to go along with this futile crusade."

    Learn italian and visit ju29roteam, j2897, vecchiasignora, read the drughi pages, read the banners all over the stadium. Against Inter they hung a big scudetto that said 28 and another that said 29. Go visit all the anti-inter web forums and tell me that they sound like you. I repeat...this resistance from uventini I only get here and others confirmed it. It's unfortunate that you don't have the means to inform yourself and refuse my translations. Who needs that though? You already know everything...
     

    Lucky Luke

    Senior Member
    Jul 23, 2007
    6,218
    :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
    I understand your point but there is something that you should be made aware of. This case was a sporting case of a team that is a publically traded company. The law requires that all information revealed in the case be made public as a result. Though the media in Italian is terrible and there is little to trust in the Italian system teh fact is that the trial documents in ther entirety needed to be made public and was not made public via the media. I have souced the FIGC website where the official trial documents are posted. Seeing as these were the documents used to sentence Juventus I find it senseless to call them into question. Media yes, definitely, but trial documents are official and public. Much of the truth lies in them.
    First of all make your list of favors. I guarantee I match it or better with games where Juve were held back by the same referees or where other teams benefitted from the same errors. Go ahead. Everybody is an expert so let's hear it.

    Don't say you are a fan of justice either. If you were you'd be outraged by Calciopoli. You call being convicted with no evidence justice? Look up justice.

    It is important that other clubs didn't pay because now Juve has to rebuild while they remained strong. That's a problem of the present not the past.

    i don't give a rats ass what you think of me. try proving me wrong before calling me an idiot though...good luck
    I'm brick headed? I present evidence that certain people refuse to accept and I'm brickheaded. This is like the pot calling the kettle black no?
    “I may not be in Italy but you don't have to be Italian to know you cannot bring down an empire on the basis of the evidence you have presented”

    They didn’t bring it down they caused it major problems and yes they did it with no evidence. Not up for debate. If you are hinting at hidden motives then we agree. There had to be people that wanted it. But there is no hidden proof because if there was it would be public. Why would they convict them and then hide why. That’s not common sense talking. That’s a last ditch effort to make a point Denco. Bottom line you don’t speak Italian, that was my point. You are in no position to pretend to know anything.

    “Would i take his word for it when I know he has been making millions for years but no idea how he has been making the millions?”
    You’re hinting that your “brother” would be guilty of something but Juve weren’t. Where were all of Juve’s benefits that were so obvious? And don’t say the refs were obviously favoring them because you are wasting your time. I already posted plenty of examples where the exact opposite occurred.
    By the way, no matter what I respond to you.
    I don't need to understand this. I agree totally with it and Judge Mario Serio confirmed it when he said that despite the lack of evidence Juventus were convicted based on the collective interests of the parties involved. Granted he was likely referring more to people like Tronchetti and Rossi than the public but I feel the public was a huge factor. I know Italy well. I lived there. The country is gossip hungry and love scandals and witch hunts. Up to that point I agree with you.
    That's already been taken into consideration. Here though people ask and I answer. Plenty have been informed here and appreciate it. Don't let a few people convince you that they are the majority.
    Don't speak for the majority. Most Juve fans were and are outraged and don't think nothing will happen. The cases and appeals aren't done and I receive more praise than criticism for what I write so a few people not liking me here means shit to me. I argue because people argue with me. Why should I let them think that they are right when I know they are not?
    The papers are conveniently quiet on this one. Plenty of people there are aware of it though. Read the banners at games and the amount of online material alone in Italian has plenty of people taking about "Intercetopoli" or "Spiopoli"
    "Come off it, Juventus is the most favoured club in Italy and thats not even open to debate."

    Adiconsum stated otherwise and they are a statistical research group. I trist their numbers more than yours. They analyze all 380 games every season for the FIGC in order to monitor their referee accuracy. The most referee errors in the history of Serie A stemmed from the 2003-2004 season that saw Milan win. That is up until last year when the referees beat the previous record. They also stated that the 2004-2005 season would have been won taking away all referee errors. I posted their articles here before but they were in Italian so once again I'm not surprised that you are confused.

    "I notice that when someone says they are either Italian or live in Italy you become timid in your response and say things like you understand and all of that."

    No Denco, those people just make more sense than you do and are less confrontational.

    "Please quit saying its only here you find resistance and 2800 fans is not a lot as a matter of fact it is pitiful compared to the amount of fans we have so also lets not act that a lot of people are willing to go along with this futile crusade."

    Learn italian and visit ju29roteam, j2897, vecchiasignora, read the drughi pages, read the banners all over the stadium. Against Inter they hung a big scudetto that said 28 and another that said 29. Go visit all the anti-inter web forums and tell me that they sound like you. I repeat...this resistance from uventini I only get here and others confirmed it. It's unfortunate that you don't have the means to inform yourself and refuse my translations. Who needs that though? You already know everything...
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #527
    Once again Denco you posted nothing though. Just personal attacks and claims you think aren't up for debate.
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #528
    Hey Lucky Luke you know who does something like that...a guy that has lost an argument. That's all I detect here are 4 or 5 guys who can't accept that I showed up and made all of you look like pre-schoolers in a topic you though you knew.
     

    Lucky Luke

    Senior Member
    Jul 23, 2007
    6,218
    Hey Lucky Luke you know who does something like that...a guy that has lost an argument. That's all I detect here are 4 or 5 guys who can't accept that I showed up and made all of you look like pre-schoolers in a topic you though you knew.
    you deserve a medal then:pint:









    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #533
    I have been painted here as some sort of fanatical conspiracy theorist which I want to call into question.

    First of all it should be noted that a conspiracy ceases to be a conspiracy the moment it is proven. When I say that Juve were found not guilty of Article 6 violations it is not a conspiracy because the sentence actually reads exactly that. When I say Moratti was behind the surveillance of all the phones in the trial it is not a conspiracy because he admitted that as Director of Telecom he infact sanctioned the surveillance on SKY TV.

    In any case I have a question for the guys here who seem to despise “conspiracies”.

    In 2004-2005

    Who was the President of AIA (Italian Referee Association)?
    - Tulio Lanese: Very close friend of Berlusconi and Galliani and admitted Milan fanatic to the point that he responds to “Mi-Lanese” on the phone taps
    Who was the President of the FIGC?
    - Franco Carraro: Ex-Milan President and a main chair on the Capitalia board of Directors which is the single biggest investor in both Roma and Lazio. He is also a friend to Berlusconi and petitioned to have Milan sold to Berlusconi in 1984. Silvio publically thanked him for his efforts in his first public press conference.
    Who was the President of the League?
    - Adriano Galliani: VP of Milan
    Who was the Prime Minister of Italy?
    - Silvio Berlusconi: Owner of Milan and owner of Mediaset where Galliani serves as President. Mediaset sells all TV rights to all teams in Italy and it should be noted that ad revenue from these games is every team’s primary source of revenue (more than jersey sponsorship and ticket sales)
    Who is the League’s biggest sponsor?
    - Tronchetti: Owner of Telecom/TIM (where Moratti and Guido Rossi sit on the Board of Directors). I’m sure you’ve all noticed Serie A TIM, Coppa Italia TIM etc.
    Who is Inter’sbiggest sponsor?
    - Tronchetti: Owner of Pirelli tires
    Who was the Commissioner of the FIGC’s Investigations Unit (Federcalcio): Guido Rossi

    We can clearly see how the Milan and Rome based teams were well protected here, so my question is this;

    HOW DID A FORMER NAPOLI TRAIN STATION CAPTAIN BECOME THE GODFATHER OF ITALIAN SOCCER WITH THIS SYSTEM IN PLACE?

    HOW DID YOU GUYS BUY INTO THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY IN ITALIAN SOCCER?

    WHERE THE FUCK IS MOGGI? WHERE IS JUVENTUS?

    You guys have to see the contradiction here. Moggi wasn’t even supported by the FIAT group which is why they gave the team no money for 7 years. To think that Moggi could control this system is preposterous! The revenue agency in Italy (Guardia Della Finanza) which is a feared investigation unit that has cracked the Mafia many times with offshore laundering etc. not only went through all of Moggi and juventus’ accounts in Italy but investigated family member accounts, player accounts, and monitored incoming international wires in all referee accounts. They concluded that no suspicious activity revolving Juventus or any other Juventus affiliates had taken place.

    I know some have already brought up GEA World and its alleged control through Moggi Jr. but in a prior post I showed its capital structure and proved that nearly 10 teams had more of a stake in GEA than Juventus.

    For a bunch of guys who don’t like conspiracies…you guys bought the biggest one. The notion that Moggi from his position could possibly become remotely influential in the world I described above.

    I’m not saying that the other clubs were cheating, I’m just posing the question of how Moggi possibly could even if he wanted to considering what he would be up against? Yet you all bought it hook line and sinker…congrats.

    Just a side note. The manner in which teams earn money does make them submissive to the Milan Clubs because IF Berlusconi sells you TV Rights then you will get a big ad revenue check from (who were the biggest sponsors of Italian soccer again?)…Tronchetti and TIM. Not to mention other notable Serie A sponsors like Gazzetta owned by Carlo Buare (Inter’s VP) and il Corriere which is owned by Inter Team Manager (Bartolozzi).
     
    Jul 24, 2006
    381
    It's an interesting debate on both sides (when it manages to stay one) and thanks to gsol for putting so much info in front of us non-italian speakers/readers.

    I don't know if I can quite go along with all of your assertions regarding Juve's responses in the trial but I for one certainly felt the club's defense was strangely muted. Interesting too to note that Deschamps publicly wanted to make much more of the appeal before of course being shown the door (after seemingly doing exactly what was asked of him) and certainly Lippi wanted none of it this year or last. We will see if the club is sold shortly as you predict.

    It is somewhat staggering that your argument finds quite such vehement opposition here but perhaps that is the crux of the matter for Juve supporters. Having been vilified for years as the cheaters and manipulators (and I myself admit to cringing at every poor decision going Juve's way simply imagining the backlash) we were quick to believe the accusations and perhaps enjoy our new, more righteous position and are therefore reluctant to re-shake the hornet's nest with quite such one-sidedness as you seem to.

    Either way your reports of these pending investigations/cases are encouraging and perhaps more light and subsequently guilt can be shed upon the key players in Calciopoli, who I think everyone must feel number far more than Moggi and Giraudo. It has always been incredible to me (even taking the idiosyncrasies of Italian politics into account, admittedly as a foreigner) that the seeming conflicts of interest embedded in calcio pass yearly without comment. If Manchester United were owned by Tony Blair or the New York Yankees by George Bush it would simply not be tolerated as the norm, and any cries of foul by such teams would only fall on deaf ears!

    To gsol: Good luck with the book although I would try harder to make a more balanced approach when discussing Moggi's guilt if you want to be taken entirely seriously. Claiming the verdicts were fixed and then using them as your primary evidence of Moggi's innocence is rather like building your house on quicksand.. But I repeat thanks for the effort I enjoyed reading (most of) the comments in this thread.
     

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
    Once again Denco you posted nothing though. Just personal attacks and claims you think aren't up for debate.
    You are beginning to annoy me now, do you know what a personal attack is?

    A personal attack is calling you names and I have not done it, but you keep insisting on bringing up that as a base for not acknowledging that i make sense.

    Conspiracy theories is not a personal attack as a lot of people do so not just you.

    When I personally attack you, you will be in no doubt that I am personally attacking you so stop with the crybaby shit.

    I read last week Galliani using the same stats company you quoted and he said they proved that Milan are the most victimed club in the land

    Now that to me is horseshit but people always use stats to their advantage as stats can be misinterpreted.

    The problem with you is that you always put yourself in a hole , lucky luke says you are full of bla bla bla and you say that when someone has conceded defeat thats when they do that.

    But Gsol you have done the same to me by saying I have not siad anything, does this man you too have conceded defeat?

    I wanna bring an analogy into this argument and pardon the controversial status of this

    Sadaam Hussein was said to be a tyrant, despot whatever, by the West. No matter how we look at it, the motives were financial(oil) and political similar to your arguments about Moggi and Juventus.

    Tony Blair and Bush said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and thats why they sent troops to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam, we later found out that Iraq had no such weapons just like you said Juventus amd Moggi were found to be clean.

    Sadaam was tried and executed, juve were demoted. Are we now saying because that because no weapons were found that Sadaam was totally innocent of any atrocities he was accused of? Can you prove that he was bad?

    But I bet you would find far more than 2800 of Sadaam supporters telling you that he is innocent.

    The poin is that the fact that no weapons were found does not mean he is innocent, the fact that America and Britain would benefit oil wise if he is removed does not mean he is innocent.

    The fact that there are other countries with weapons of mass destruction but do not benefit the politics involved does not mean Saddam is innocent.

    Now a Saddam supporter can quite easily bring out various documents and all sorts of things to prove that the Allied powers were very wrong to do what they did because there was nothing to prove that he had weapons of mass destruction.

    This is exactly what you are doing bringing up facts and documents that talk about a miniscule of Juventus's crime but does not delve into everything.

    Like the majority of Iraqi people, Juventus supporters in the main know we are a guilty club , it is just the manner that the powers that be went about punishing that leaves a sour taste in the mouths of both so lets stop with we are innocent garbage because we are not.

    For the record i have no idea if Saddam is guilty of anything from a personal level but I do have some Iraqi friends and they were not sad to see his demise and just like juventus, you could not have removed him from power just for political and financial gain if he was a good man as the world would have gone apeshit.

    There are a few rumblings but that is to be expected
     

    Pingo

    Senior Member
    Oct 31, 2007
    674
    @gsol You are THE MAN!..Don't let thoes :faq2: ers get u down...I believe you and I stand beside u...FORZA JUVE...Keep posting:tup:


    Like the majority of Iraqi people, Juventus supporters in the main know we are a guilty club , it is just the manner that the powers that be went about punishing that leaves a sour taste in the mouths of both so lets stop with we are innocent garbage because we are not.

    For the record i have no idea if Saddam is guilty of anything from a personal level but I do have some Iraqi friends and they were not sad to see his demise and just like juventus, you could not have removed him from power just for political and financial gain if he was a good man as the world would have gone apeshit.

    There are a few rumblings but that is to be expected
    Dude you are going off the charts and off topic...Sadam and Moggi (Juventus), yeah the same thing...:rofl:
     
    OP
    gsol

    gsol

    Senior Member
    Oct 14, 2007
    1,448
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #538
    For starters I want to say that the eventual sale of Juventus isn't my theory. Many seem to think that it is a probable thing and I happen to see the logic in it but only time will tell.

    To Denco, when I say personal attacks I don;t mean you insulting me because whether you do or not means nothing to me. I mean picking apart my arguments with arguments that stem from nothing more than a personal goal that you seem to have against me personally. If you contested my arguments with some other fact or evidence it would be an adequate debate. Instead you continue to post personal ideas and opinions to go against me personally rather than the evidence I have provided.

    Galliani was right. On October 16 Adiconsum posted a periodic report and Milan were (among) the most penalized. I posted the article I believe. If not and people want to see it I'll post it but it should be noted that it was a periodic report regarding this season...not 2005.

    The Saddam analogy is far fetched for one reason. He had no weapons of mass destruction (which we all know was a smoke screan) but that's not why he was executed was it? He was executed for crimes against humanity based on very well documented mass executions primarily of the Kurds. Let's avoid politics though. I understand it was just an analogy but this shouldn't take that direction.

    Again Denco you said the majority of Juventus fans know we are guilty and again I have to correct you. A handful of posters here might think it but I've encountered far more arguments opposing that theory. Few Juventini in Italy would agree with you and online forums the world over are spilling over with people who do not believe they were guilty. I urge you to explore the web to see for yourself. I have already posted a few websites. Check them out.
     

    Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 50)