Burqa (34 Viewers)

[Lo-Pan]

What bother me most about muslims, is the manner in which they have a habit of demanding of their children an acceptance and adherence to rules and customs which make them horridly, palpably restrained, when compared to the non muslims around them. Religion bothers me in general, other than buddhism, but that doesn't suit me...as I could never smile, peacefully, in the face of pure hate. A shame they don't have a militant wing.

I have come across and heard of the situation in England, many times, in which muslim daughters are not allowed to date non muslim men. To the ignorant, despotic point of threatening to disown them, if they break this rule. When the non muslim in question is a Cunt, then its better to say 'you arent having anything to do with that man, because he is a cunt'. But when he is a non muslim, respectable, decent heart and soul, and the parents still deny them any hint of romantic involvement, solely because they are non muslim, in that case, if I was King of England, I would be deporting or shooting the parents in question...

One of the sickest jokes of Islam is the more than rare occurence of 'honour killings'. These people are so ignorant that they are simply too dangerous to be allowed to live...there is never anything honourable about cutting your sister's throat because she has fucked a white man. Its evil. And those who commit such atrocities should be dissolved slowly in acid, to show an example, a deterrant.

the way women are treated in islamic states, is generally disgraceful, when compared to how women are treated in secular states.
it IS a 'mans world', but in islamic states its much more of a 'mans world in which women are no more than breeding machines'.

I have several muslim friends. The iranians amongst them especially, are adorable people. I love the extreme hospitality of their families. Extreme...but not lacking Reason. So if you go against them, in the same way I would see someone going against me or my family, they cut you out their loop.

 

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[HelterSkelter]

I have come across and heard of the situation in England, many times, in which muslim daughters are not allowed to date non muslim men. To the ignorant, despotic point of threatening to disown them, if they break this rule. When the non muslim in question is a Cunt, then its better to say 'you arent having anything to do with that man, because he is a cunt'. But when he is a non muslim, respectable, decent heart and soul, and the parents still deny them any hint of romantic involvement, solely because they are non muslim, in that case, if I was King of England, I would be deporting or shooting the parents in question...

Not an Islamic tradition.It is more like the south asian mindset,and something that is not down to Islam.Sikh families are equally strict,if not more,when it comes to these things.And that is down to the conservative cultural mindset of people from South Asia.It has nothing to do with religion.

One of the sickest jokes of Islam is the more than rare occurence of 'honour killings'. These people are so ignorant that they are simply too dangerous to be allowed to live...there is never anything honourable about cutting your sister's throat because she has fucked a white man. Its evil. And those who commit such atrocities should be dissolved slowly in acid, to show an example, a deterrant.

Again,Honor killings are not supported by Islam.It is not an Islamic tradition by any means.It is something that is engraved in a particular culture.Honor killing were part of Arab even before Islam.Honor Killing were part of South Asia regardless of what religion you belong to.It is a pathetic practice,and it has nothing to do with Islam,and nor does Islam support it.

the way women are treated in islamic states, is generally disgraceful, when compared to how women are treated in secular states.
it IS a 'mans world', but in islamic states its much more of a 'mans world in which women are no more than breeding machines'.

How many Islamic States have you lived in?

 

[Lo-Pan]

None, thankfully...but I read enough stories, from amnesty international, and other organizations which highlight the plight of the suffering globally, to have at least a small idea of how not just customs, but laws, are horrifically vicious to women, and very mild to men.

 

[Lo-Pan]

Not an Islamic tradition.It is more like the south asian mindset,and something that is not down to Islam.Sikh families are equally strict,if not more,when it comes to these things.And that is down to the conservative cultural mindset of people from South Asia.It has nothing to do with religion.



Again,Honor killings are not supported by Islam.It is not an Islamic tradition by any means.It is something that is engraved in a particular culture.Honor killing were part of Arab even before Islam.Honor Killing were part of South Asia regardless of what religion you belong to.It is a pathetic practice,and it has nothing to do with Islam,and nor does Islam support it.



How many Islamic States have you lived in?

that makes no sense whatsoever...
if a father says:
'if you date a non muslim man, you will be disowned by your family' then its hugely to do with religion. You can argue, rightfully, that that would be the father's misinterpretation of religion, but blatantly...its a religious issue.

"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.
(national geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html)

your stance is completely bereft of an acceptance that the interpretation of Islam, often leads to vicious treatement of women. If there was not that relgion to misinterpret, then the vicious would need another root...

 

[HelterSkelter]

that makes no sense whatsoever...
if a father says:
'if you date a non muslim man, you will be disowned by your family' then its hugely to do with religion. You can argue, rightfully, that that would be the father's misinterpretation of religion, but blatantly...its a religious issue.

"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.
(national geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html)

your stance is completely bereft of an acceptance that the interpretation of Islam, often leads to vicious treatement of women. If there was not that relgion to misinterpret, then the vicious would need another root...

The wrong interpretation of anything can make it look bad.You cant blame the thing itself bad.The blame lies with the people who interpret it.That doesn't apply to religion alone,but everything else that can be interpreted in a false manner. Stairway To Heaven was interpreted as a satanic song.Does that make Led Zeppelin a satanic band?.False interpretations are very common,some have small effects,some have huge effects,but nevertheless,that does that make the thing itself bad,regardless of whether it is religion,a song,a political statement or anything else under the sun.

If a supposed religious expert makes a hideous statement,and people follow it,then it's not the religions fault.Religion has been used as a tool to manipulate people for centuries,and that is down to the fake preachers which so very common now.I won't talk of other areas,i'll just talk of Pakistan.The literacy rate is very low here.It's very easy for people to be manipulated by anyone who makes big promises,whether it's a politician,a preacher,or any other public figure.Have you ever looked at the fact that honor killing are common in non-literate countries?But obviously,the blame will come down to the fact it's a Muslim nation,and not the fact that people there are illiterate and easy to manipulate.

Honor-killings are embedded in culture.Not religion.But Islamophobia will obviously cloud your mind.

 

[Lo-Pan]

I am not an islamophobic. I just hate scum. whatever their relgious justification for their evil...

I understand everything you wrote, and agree, to a degree...but its ridiculous to suggest that a muslim who causes evil because HIS interpretation of Islam is fucked up, has nothing to do with religion. Its has much to do with religion. I am not talking of isolated incidents...I am talking of widespread horror exacted onto women, with ALL of those fiends, justifying their actions through religion, in this case...Islam.

I do not hate all muslims. Nor do I fear them. If anything I pity them, as I pity the christians, for needing a crutch of belief in something altered, created, disseminated, by men, for reasons far removed from enlightenment. But No, i do not hate religious types...

There is nothing in the Koran, the book of basic Islamic teachings, that permits or sanctions honor killings. However, the view of women as property with no rights of their own is deeply rooted in Islamic culture, Tahira Shahid Khan, a professor specializing in women's issues at the Aga Khan University in Pakistan, wrote in Chained to Custom, a review of honor killings published in 1999.

"Women are considered the property of the males in their family irrespective of their class, ethnic, or religious group. The owner of the property has the right to decide its fate. The concept of ownership has turned women into a commodity which can be exchanged, bought and sold."
(from the same national geographic article cited in my previous post)

 

[Ford Prefect]

How many Islamic States have you lived in?

I couldn't be bothered to read all of what he said, but im assuming he made a sweaping generalisation about islam. From what i have studied on womens rights in islam, shit has changed a lot in the past 50 years, but in comparison to western democratic ideals of womens rights the islamic idea of womens rights is extremely devolved!

 

[Lo-Pan]

it wasn't a sweeping generalisation, on my part, or Salman's part...just a locking of horns over the inability to accept that regardless of the level of misinterpretation, if woman are being viciously maltreated, by men who justify their actions through Islam, then religion is a massive part of the problem...

 

[Ahmed]

they aren't being 'viciously' maltreated, what do you think, all women in the Muslim world are held captive in dungeons? we have our share of retards just like everyone else...they simply use religion to (wrongly) justify their heinous actions.

 

[Lo-Pan]

Your 'share' is HUGE when compared to Western secular societies, Ahmed.
And yes, 'viciously' is putting it wrongly mildly.

and if you do not find:
"Women are considered the property of the males in their family irrespective of their class, ethnic, or religious group. The owner of the property has the right to decide its fate. The concept of ownership has turned women into a commodity which can be exchanged, bought and sold."
vicious, then you need to look up the word in the dictionary...

 

[Ahmed]

sure, I'll accept that...but there are a lot more people here too, and like Salman also pointed out, lack of education is a big factor as well.

 

[Lo-Pan]

lack of education is a Reason, not an excuse...nort does it prove that this is nothing to do with religion. but you said you agreed, so I need not attempt to create more conflict, Ahmed, and will thank you, for seeing my point of view reasonably...

 

[Ford Prefect]

Gutter, take a look at how Turkey treat women and then compare it to somewhere like Afghanistan and you can see the multitude of difference between islamic countries, i can send you a lecture i had a few weeks back on womens rights if you want!

 

[Lo-Pan]

The way turks treat women, the turks I have met and known, is appalling...but turkey is a strange place to focus on, or at least, an interesting place, as its the border of the crossover between Islamic and European states. I know little of the laws there, but the Turks have a reputation for seeing woman as something to use and abuse as they please. And whilst that is generalizing, it has some roots in reality, in regards to the turkish men i have met...

I am aware that its secular, but when a massive % of the population are muslim, it may as well be classed as islamic...

 

[Zé Tahir]

Gutter, thanks for your concern of Muslim women but I would fix things at "home" before becoming such a concerned humanitarian for women abroad. Women forced into stripping to meet ends meet, sexual objectification, rapid increase in infidelity, teen pregnancy, little girls dressed like whores, 10 year olds raping 9 year olds....oh boy all of a sudden a few women forced to wear a burqa seems so trivial.

 

[Febrina]

You are the Febrina I have on Facebook? Nice to meet you finally

yes, it's me. nice to meet you too, Asif

 

[JBF]

The way turks treat women, the turks I have met and known, is appalling...but turkey is a strange place to focus on, or at least, an interesting place, as its the border of the crossover between Islamic and European states. I know little of the laws there, but the Turks have a reputation for seeing woman as something to use and abuse as they please. And whilst that is generalizing, it has some roots in reality, in regards to the turkish men i have met...

I am aware that its secular, but when a massive % of the population are muslim, it may as well be classed as islamic...

And that's exactly what all your posts have been eagerly mentioning every freakin time. And that's exactly why I think there's no point arguing with you otherwise, you just keep on generalizing muslims, turks, Arabs,.. At this moment Im worried to ask for your opinion regarding Chinese, Russians and even Animals. Im sure you believe every group of those are a copy/paste version of each other. Afterall, you know better than all YOU'VE MET THEM!

 

[Febrina]

sometimes when you're not really get into one of the religion (in this case, Islam), you wouldn't really understand about it at all. no matter how hard you try,.. as simple as that

 

[Azzurri7]

None, thankfully...

Thankfully? How lame.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

The way turks treat women, the turks I have met and known, is appalling...but turkey is a strange place to focus on, or at least, an interesting place, as its the border of the crossover between Islamic and European states. I know little of the laws there, but the Turks have a reputation for seeing woman as something to use and abuse as they please. And whilst that is generalizing, it has some roots in reality, in regards to the turkish men i have met...

I am aware that its secular, but when a massive % of the population are muslim, it may as well be classed as islamic...

Laws here are no different than europe. This is a country with muslim majority and anti-islamic regime. as for women, i can guarantee that Turks are not seeing them as something to use. excluding exceptions..