But you can't say that Germany has got just one team at international standing. Is Italy really different in that regard? Many talented German players join clubs like Dortmund, Leverkusen or Hoffenheim.
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Bundesliga 2018/19 (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Azzurri7
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Reputation wise, Italy has got loads of clubs with 'international standing' ... Juve, Milan, Inter, Napoli, Roma. Even Fiorentina and Sampdoria to an extent. Spain has Barca, Real, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia etc. England has its 'top 6' and currently rubbish big clubs like Newcastle and Leeds.
Germany has Bayern and Dortmund. And the difference between the resources of those two is huge.
We'll have some idea of the strength of Bundesliga after the next round of CL games. But I'm seeing that La Liga / PL > Serie A > Bundesliga > Ligue 1. That's not to say that Juve and Bayern aren't amongst the best teams out there (because they are) but the strength of the Bundesliga isn't that strong overall ... in my opinion.
Hoffenheim and Leverkusen are probably as attractive an option as Glasgow Celtic.
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Germany has Bayern and Dortmund. And the difference between the resources of those two is huge.
We'll have some idea of the strength of Bundesliga after the next round of CL games. But I'm seeing that La Liga / PL > Serie A > Bundesliga > Ligue 1. That's not to say that Juve and Bayern aren't amongst the best teams out there (because they are) but the strength of the Bundesliga isn't that strong overall ... in my opinion.
Hoffenheim and Leverkusen are probably as attractive an option as Glasgow Celtic.
Shoot me!
Bayern as a name is known much better worldwide compared with Inter. Milan was very well known especially because of their succes in the CL/European cup, but they been quite unknown to many young/new football fans as they don’t play international these days/stay in the top.
To be well known for all generations of football fans, especially the younger ones, you have to stay relevant. Can’t say it’s the case for Inter and Milan, doesn’t mean they’re not clubs with a big name though
In Germany you have Bayern as a giant name, then Dortmund as a big one , could possibly but Schalke up there as well. Gladbach and Leverkusen are okay known as well, the rest not much.
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No way does Napoli, Fiorentina and Sampdoria have more international appeal than Schalke and Dortmund. Schalke is very well known. The others I agree with, apart from Roma where Dortmund have the edge
Except for Bayern, Inter and Milan of course have the bigger name compared with rest of the german clubs, also agreed there - and the appeal for the overall player is also bigger playing for Milan and Inter, compared to other german clubs, expect for Bayern
To be well known for all generations of football fans, especially the younger ones, you have to stay relevant. Can’t say it’s the case for Inter and Milan, doesn’t mean they’re not clubs with a big name though
In Germany you have Bayern as a giant name, then Dortmund as a big one , could possibly but Schalke up there as well. Gladbach and Leverkusen are okay known as well, the rest not much.
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No way does Napoli, Fiorentina and Sampdoria have more international appeal than Schalke and Dortmund. Schalke is very well known. The others I agree with, apart from Roma where Dortmund have the edge
Except for Bayern, Inter and Milan of course have the bigger name compared with rest of the german clubs, also agreed there - and the appeal for the overall player is also bigger playing for Milan and Inter, compared to other german clubs, expect for Bayern
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The point is the Bundesliga's equivalents to Inter and Milan are Dortmund and Schalke, and there's quite a distance between the two sets in international standing. Napoli, Fiorentina, Lazio, Torino, etc. compare with the likes of Leverkusen and co. The former are more storied clubs despite not winning in recent years, they have great culture and history for their size.
How do Hamburg compare in terms of standing now, all things considered?
I'm not too sure about saying Fiorentina, Sampdoria or Lazio (never really won all that much ever), or Torino (won lots 60 years ago) compare to the likes of Schalke, Hoffenheim, Leverkusen etc, but Milan or Inter compared to Dortmund or Schalke for example is a big difference, and that is with respect especially for Dortmund.
In Italy you'd have people flipping a coin to say who was bigger between Juve or Milan (domestic vs continental success) over 100, 50, 25 or 10 years. You'd also have some people (I like to call these people 'idiots') who would say Inter are the same tier. Just isn't the case in Germany, it's Bayern and then a big gap.
I'm not too sure about saying Fiorentina, Sampdoria or Lazio (never really won all that much ever), or Torino (won lots 60 years ago) compare to the likes of Schalke, Hoffenheim, Leverkusen etc, but Milan or Inter compared to Dortmund or Schalke for example is a big difference, and that is with respect especially for Dortmund.
In Italy you'd have people flipping a coin to say who was bigger between Juve or Milan (domestic vs continental success) over 100, 50, 25 or 10 years. You'd also have some people (I like to call these people 'idiots') who would say Inter are the same tier. Just isn't the case in Germany, it's Bayern and then a big gap.
I'd say the American audience is a good barometer of club appeal.
Unlike in England, Italy, Spain and Portugal where we've had club football since the 19th Century and generations of fans inheriting ties from parents and grandparents etc.
The USA are coming to this party quite late on, and are looking at all of this with fresh eyes. America is also a country bombarded by rampant consumerism, and the populace know how to read through the hype. They're a savvy market.
Unlike in England, Italy, Spain and Portugal where we've had club football since the 19th Century and generations of fans inheriting ties from parents and grandparents etc.
The USA are coming to this party quite late on, and are looking at all of this with fresh eyes. America is also a country bombarded by rampant consumerism, and the populace know how to read through the hype. They're a savvy market.
It's also the biggest fad culture on the planet.
Besides, what am I being sold here? Because America has decided to like soccer it can now dictate that their 5-15 year window of interest is most relevant and Dortmund are the same as Milan or Inter? That's like me saying that the Cavs are as big as the Bulls or Celtics.
Guess who also likes soccer? Pretty much every country in the world, those who don't have super high standards of living and endless infrastructure.
Besides, what am I being sold here? Because America has decided to like soccer it can now dictate that their 5-15 year window of interest is most relevant and Dortmund are the same as Milan or Inter? That's like me saying that the Cavs are as big as the Bulls or Celtics.
Guess who also likes soccer? Pretty much every country in the world, those who don't have super high standards of living and endless infrastructure.
I'm not selling you anything. There's no hidden message. I tend to think American fans do get football, irrespective of how some snobby some of us are (esp. in England) about our perception of their football knowledge.
And no, Dortmund are nowhere near Milan and Inter. I don't think anyone believes that.
P.S. I have no idea who the Cavs, Bulls or Celtics are.
And no, Dortmund are nowhere near Milan and Inter. I don't think anyone believes that.
P.S. I have no idea who the Cavs, Bulls or Celtics are.
Damn. You took my example way too far to heart. I used a personal example to but my thinking was the world over. It seemed the discussion was international recognition not recognition within Europe or the host country.
It seems to me. The best way to see who has the most international recognition would be to ask an American or an Asian.
It seems to me. The best way to see who has the most international recognition would be to ask an American or an Asian.
I'm not looking to belittle any audience, just think it's a bizarre time frame and reasoning for the standing of a team.
I think if you look anywhere around the world at any period of time the teams rated biggest would correlate strongly with those currently best, it's just not something I agree with.
I think if you look anywhere around the world at any period of time the teams rated biggest would correlate strongly with those currently best, it's just not something I agree with.
You certainly have US centric issues to work through.
But I’d generally agree. Except for marketing. It’s changed the world. Look at the EPL vs everyone else. The best marketed are generally the most internationally recognized. And those do correlate with with being the best in their league.
And to risk another rant. I think Milan and to some extent, Inter have done a decent job of that.
But I’d generally agree. Except for marketing. It’s changed the world. Look at the EPL vs everyone else. The best marketed are generally the most internationally recognized. And those do correlate with with being the best in their league.
And to risk another rant. I think Milan and to some extent, Inter have done a decent job of that.
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