Bench Discussion (8 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

At the beginning of the season I pointed out that in actuality our bench is not much stronger than last year's, especially in midfield where we lost Kapo and do not have capable replacements for Camoranesi, Nedved, Vieira, and Emerson. Giannichedda thus far has proved to be quite an average player (nothing short of expectations) and apart from him we basically have no other options in midfield. Capello does not even bring Olivera with him to matches and we have to resort to using Chiellini in midfield...yet people laughed off the notion saying that our bench is world class.

IMO our bench is just as inadequate as last year, apart from the forwards of course. We have already witnessed how we cope without Vieira, and I can't say we have been very successful...what happens when the knockout stages of the Champions League come around and Vieira is out of action again? How about Camoranesi or Emerson? Seriously...I do not think our options off the bench in midfield are decent enough, and same goes with the creativity factor.

 

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[swag]

Two major flaws of this squad this season, as I see it:

#1: Creative midfield
#2: Bench depth

 

[Erkka]

oh FFS, don't always make yourself a righteous martyr Andy, you've also been wrong in many occasions just like the others. I have been very disappointed with you lately, specially when I saw "point" about Capello, Milan and Ajax in CL-final. Get yourself ass back to the quality posts!!

But now back to business, I firmly believe that the bench offers much more width than last year. You didn't mention Kovac, who is more than capable back-up for Thuram or even Cannavaro on his good day. Last year we lacked everything on that department, Montero wasn't any good. As for midfield, VERSATILITY is the key. I can't believe that you are honestly claiming that Juve doesn't have back-ups for Nedved and Camoranesi. Mutu can easily handle the left wing and Zambrotta could replace Camoranesi on the right flank if necessary. As for Émerson and Vieira, one of them can be out without the quality of play suffering that much. As for Olivera, he isn't around because he is currently injured.

Besides, WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? You just can't have world class players as subs everywhere!!

 

[JCK]

++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++


Besides, WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? You just can't have world class players as subs everywhere!!

Chelsea is increasing the level.

 

[Holygr4le]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
Two major flaws of this squad this season, as I see it:

#1: Creative midfield

Nope. Can not agree.
I all depends on how you play it. Look at Ac Milan for example where Pirlo is supposed to be a playmaker. When the paste lowers he is worth nothing. Why? Because it is all about movement.

Our problem is that we don’t involve enough players from behind in attacking. Yeah, I know, they have to work harder and cover greater ground.

For example a 3-5-2 lineup can easily be switched between that and 5-4-1 depending on the needs. 4-4-2 can (and should IMO) be 2-5-3 in attacking mode. That requires wings in the defense with stamina as Blasi and Zambo. An example:

Defensive mode:
Blasi--------Kovac---------Canna----------Zambo
------------------------Viera--------------------------
-----Cammo-------------------------Nedved--------
-------------------------Mutu-------------------------
---------------Trez-----------------DP----------------

Offensive mode:
--------------Kovac--------Canna--------------------
------------------------Viera---------------------------
Blasi-------------------------------------------Zambo
---------Cammo--------------------Nedved----------
-----------------------Mutu-----------------------------
---------------------------------DP---------------------
----------------Trez-------------------------------------

In this scenario our team is longer and therefore harder to defend against.
It also allows Viera to work over a larger space and to have more options in the field.
But above all it makes us stronger in midfield and allows us to attack with more power.
Our midfield can at this point be tremendous creative IF we have the movement and switching between players!

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
#2: Bench depth

You are supposed to change your system with your subs and in that way our bench is great.
Crespo/Drogba, Gilardino/Vieri and so on…

 

[Erkka]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++

Chelsea is increasing the level.

So what, not a single team in a world has resources like Chelsea. Besides, Chelsea is beatable too. I'm so fvcking sick and tired with all this complaining. 9 victories from 10 games! Yes, mostly the opponents were below par but so what, scudetti are won against the small teams. As for CL, Bayern München isn't a village club and the match wasn't even that important, Juve is through from the group phase anyway. Why can't people get satisfaction but seek for perfection that isn't even possible? Why are so many here over-reacting, spoiled crybabies? And no, this isn't directed to any individual, but rather to whole community including myself. Surely criticism is necessary, but on cases like this? Hell no!

 

[Holygr4le]

++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++
So what, not a single team in a world has resources like Chelsea. Besides, Chelsea is beatable too. I'm so fvcking sick and tired with all this complaining. 9 victories from 10 games! Yes, mostly the opponents were below par but so what, scudetti are won against the small teams. As for CL, Bayern München isn't a village club and the match wasn't even that important, Juve is through from the group phase anyway. Why can't people get satisfaction but seek for perfection that isn't even possible? Why are so many here over-reacting, spoiled crybabies? And no, this isn't directed to any individual, but rather to whole community including myself. Surely criticism is necessary, but on cases like this? Hell no!

It just makes me feel good when you burst like this.
Thanks mate. :LOL:

 

[JCK]

Erkka I am with you. One is allowed to complain on the team, we heard lots of complaining last year but the title gave a smile on the faces of those who complained.

You asked, Why can't people get satisfaction but seek for perfection that isn't even possible?

The answer is, Chelsea is increasing the level.

 

[Erkka]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
Erkka I am with you. One is allowed to complain on the team, we heard lots of complaining last year but the title gave a smile on the faces of those who complained.

Well still many claim that it was won by half-assed football, by luck etc. etc.

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
You asked, Why can't people get satisfaction but seek for perfection that isn't even possible?

The answer is, Chelsea is increasing the level.

Nope, I don't really think so. Chelsea too plays more of a "Italian football" (by which I mean wrongly made assumption that Italians always just defend) and they are being critisized harshly by 'pool, gunners and even their own fans! I could easily imagine if Juve had resources like Chelsea they would be critisized by the same guys that critisize Juve now because of something pretty much irrelevant. They'd just change the reason to something else, in this case they'd probably want more attacking football. People seem to critisize just for the sake of critisizing and that it seems cool and make them look wiser. When my team plays, the only thing I care about is result and thank God Juve have brought excellent results so far.

 

[Dan]

jesus Erkka, since when did you become so wise?

And why arent you posting more regularly?

 

[Snoop]

++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++


So what, not a single team in a world has resources like Chelsea. Besides, Chelsea is beatable too. I'm so fvcking sick and tired with all this complaining. 9 victories from 10 games! Yes, mostly the opponents were below par but so what, scudetti are won against the small teams. As for CL, Bayern München isn't a village club and the match wasn't even that important, Juve is through from the group phase anyway. Why can't people get satisfaction but seek for perfection that isn't even possible? Why are so many here over-reacting, spoiled crybabies? And no, this isn't directed to any individual, but rather to whole community including myself. Surely criticism is necessary, but on cases like this? Hell no!

Hell yeah,this is what I am trying to explain for centuries.. same persons still criticise the team even if we won,now when we lose,suddenly they are right. ofcourse we can lose against the likes of Bayern munich away,that's normal.

and there are other who hate Capello without any reason,maybe because of his huge crime,which we lost to the champion of CL.

we are ok in every area of the team,you keep asking what If Vieira injured,or Emerson..the answer is,ofcourse that will affect the team,because they are key players,Every team in the world will suffer if their best players injured. ofcourse there are some teams like Chelsea or Real don't have those problems,simply because they are filty fucckin rich bastards.So stop blaming Capellos and Moggis..

 

[Juve_Kosova]

Erkka and Snoop Great post's... Totally Agree !

 

[Holygr4le]

Why does not anyone agree with me????

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

didnt your mama tell you ? you dumb man

 

[Holygr4le]

++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
didnt your mama tell you ? you dumb man

 

[Mr. Gol]

Kovac is clearly an improvement over Montero/Tudor/Legrottaglie. Giannichiedda is an improvement over Tacchinardi/Appiah, although not much. We finally have an adequate sub for Zambrotta (Chiellini), and for Nedved (Mutu). If we hadn't loaned Abbiati we'd be in 20th place by now.

So no, I can't really say that our squad depth is as poor as last year.

 

[ZhiXin]

The bench role this season isn't as depleted as last season. Our players r pretty good. Nedved can be replaced by Mutu (by right Mutu should already be playing and Nedved should be on the bench), if Camo is out, replace him with Zambro and put Chiellini/Balzeretti to the left. On the RB position, put Pessotto and Blasi in there if Zebina is out. For our midfield duo, if 1 of them is out Gianni can fill that gap. IMO he didn't do Really badly as most stated. Last season we didn't have decent partner for Emerson but for this season we have Emerson + Vieira, 1 of the world's best midfield duo, if 1 of them is injured, it weighs a heavier responsibility for the other player. For the Gianni-Emerson partnership, Emerson has to move forward, while Gianni stays guard. Last of all Robert Kovac, a world class football player, if we brought back Tudor, then the team is complete IMO.

So to conclude, our situation isn't as serious as staed, juz enjoy our football.

 

[/usr/bin]

++ [ originally posted by Mr. Gol ] ++
Kovac is clearly an improvement over Montero/Tudor/Legrottaglie. Giannichiedda is an improvement over Tacchinardi/Appiah, although not much. We finally have an adequate sub for Zambrotta (Chiellini), and for Nedved (Mutu). If we hadn't loaned Abbiati we'd be in 20th place by now.

So no, I can't really say that our squad depth is as poor as last year.

You have a point.. but I don't believe Gianni is better than Appiah, tbh..

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

true he isnt but is appiah, tacchi better than viera and gianni ?

of course not.

dont forget juve is a healthy bussness and some tough deccisions must be made in order for our finances to stay green.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++
But now back to business, I firmly believe that the bench offers much more width than last year. You didn't mention Kovac, who is more than capable back-up for Thuram or even Cannavaro on his good day. Last year we lacked everything on that department, Montero wasn't any good. As for midfield, VERSATILITY is the key. I can't believe that you are honestly claiming that Juve doesn't have back-ups for Nedved and Camoranesi. Mutu can easily handle the left wing and Zambrotta could replace Camoranesi on the right flank if necessary. As for Émerson and Vieira, one of them can be out without the quality of play suffering that much. As for Olivera, he isn't around because he is currently injured.

This discussion is mostly about the options in midfield, as Kovac is indeed a good player. Now I don't buy this versatility argument you have going here...especially when Capello will always use the same players. Giannichedda is IMO not good enough for Juventus and apart from that we have no other options off the bench strictly for midfield, besides Blasi of course. Lack of creativity off the bench in midfield is another thing, however I will not go into that again.

Again, what happens when Vieira is missing? You say Emerson can cope without him in the big matches...are you sure about that cuz I'm not. Then if Camoranesi is out Capello will move Nedved to the right flank where he continues to fail miserably when given that role. Only bright spot is the prospect of giving Mutu a role on the left flank, which should be happening already.

And just because you do not concur with me in this matter does not mean my posts are lacking. I just have different feelings in this respect and it will be interesting to see how our team will cope in the latter stages of the CL without some key players...hopefully something we won't have to see. That said, I'm not convinced.

oh FFS, don't always make yourself a righteous martyr Andy, you've also been wrong in many occasions just like the others. I have been very disappointed with you lately, specially when I saw "point" about Capello, Milan and Ajax in CL-final. Get yourself ass back to the quality posts!!

What are you on about here, Erkka? Again, just because you see the team one way doesn't mean everybody concurs with you. Righteous martyr?