Azzurri Thread (64 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

Yea, there are some spots for NL but its too convoluted to know at the moment. We have to win against Israel and win every game by as many goals as possible, that's the target.

This lineup worked perfectly for Estonia and it's right for Moldova too. I'm curious if Gattuso will keep against Israel or if he will think it's too attacking.

Kean-Retegui wamorking so well was the best thing about the lineup. Maybe a 4312 against norway.

 

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[Alen]

Do Italy have a pathway through their NL performance if they actually manage to fuck up and come third in the group? Lol

I think no. I don't know if I understand it well, but the group winners in NL have an advantage for the qualifiers, so teams like North Macedonia, Northern Ireland, Moldova and even San Marino are ahead of Italy in the pecking order.
It's top 2 or nothing for the Italians. If they lose to Israel on Monday, it's 99 percent game over. Good for them that the match will be played in Hungary, so Israel is losing home advantage.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

I think no. I don't know if I understand it well, but the group winners in NL have an advantage for the qualifiers, so teams like North Macedonia, Northern Ireland, Moldova and even San Marino are ahead of Italy in the pecking order.
It's top 2 or nothing for the Italians. If they lose to Israel on Monday, it's 99 percent game over. Good for them that the match will be played in Hungary, so Israel is losing home advantage.

Just saw this post on X

https://x.com/fmeetsdata/status/1964233850764071102?s=46&t=3d4cEioiUii9AC3sdqFApQ

 

[Siamak]

Could have been 8-0 really. Complete one way traffic but bit slow to get going and all they could do was defend.

The lack of real quality up front is an obvious problem but it's never been easier to qualify for a WC so no excuses. The next game is obviously massive.

To be honest, I didn't expect this result, the Azzurri got the best result from this match because they need a goal average after losing to Norway. What I've always liked about Gattuso is his fighting spirit, which he has instilled in the team marvelously(based what I saw this match). Technically, given Gattuso's lack of experience, we still can't clearly comment on how much the team has improved, because Estonia is not a strong team and lower-ranked teams in Europe. Nevertheless, last night Italy played much better than they did under Spalletti.

 

[JuveJay]

To be honest, I didn't expect this result, the Azzurri got the best result from this match because they need a goal average after losing to Norway. What I've always liked about Gattuso is his fighting spirit, which he has instilled in the team marvelously(based what I saw this match). Technically, given Gattuso's lack of experience, we still can't clearly comment on how much the team has improved, because Estonia is not a strong team and lower-ranked teams in Europe. Nevertheless, last night Italy played much better than they did under Spalletti.

I don't think you necessarily need a great coach for a national team. It's a different thing than being a club coach. You need a guy that the players buy into mentally. Spalletti obviously wasn't the guy, he can't inspire anyone. Gattuso will probably fall short at some point tactically but he might turn out to be a decent choice if he can bring together a group of players.

Italy meed a guy who can raise the level of the players he has. The team isn't young but it's not super experienced either, most of the players are 25-28 kind of age. Other countries like France or England or Germany often have lots of very good players but choose a pretty average coach (for club level) and their job is different, it's more a task of controlling a group of egos and keeping players happy whilst making key decisions to go far. Italy's players need to go back to that 2012 humility and realise that yeah, they have a few top players, but mostly they need to work very hard to get where they need to be.

 

[Siamak]

I don't think you necessarily need a great coach for a national team. It's a different thing than being a club coach. You need a guy that the players buy into mentally. Spalletti obviously wasn't the guy, he can't inspire anyone. Gattuso will probably fall short at some point tactically but he might turn out to be a decent choice if he can bring together a group of players.

Italy meed a guy who can raise the level of the players he has. The team isn't young but it's not super experienced either, most of the players are 25-28 kind of age. Other countries like France or England or Germany often have lots of very good players but choose a pretty average coach (for club level) and their job is different, it's more a task of controlling a group of egos and keeping players happy whilst making key decisions to go far. Italy's players need to go back to that 2012 humility and realise that yeah, they have a few top players, but mostly they need to work very hard to get where they need to be.

FIGC took a huge risk by appointing Gattuso , I think there was no better option and they settled for an Italian option. But really, even a well-known coach wouldn't have done better with this generation of Italian players. Italy is literally dead to produce real talent.

 

[Alen]

Just saw this post on X

https://x.com/fmeetsdata/status/1964233850764071102?s=46&t=3d4cEioiUii9AC3sdqFApQ

1% chance is about right. There are more than one scenarios for Italy to make the knockouts via NL (each less likely than the other - for example... San Marino to finish top 2 in their group), but the most likely one is Northern Ireland, Sweden, Romania and Czech Republic to finish top 2 in their groups. Possible for some of them, but less likely for Northern Ireland.

Imo, Italy will have to play the knockouts. They won't win their group (Norway will). They'll finish 2nd, and that will mean two knockout matches en route to the WC. The first one will be a home match against one of North Macedonia (LOL), Northern Ireland, Moldova or San Marino, but the second one can be an away match against a trickier team (Sweden, Turkey, Hungary etc).

Btw, never in history has a WC winning team missed three consecutive tournaments. Italy has a chance to do that.

 

[JuveJay]

FIGC took a huge risk by appointing Gattuso , I think there was no better option and they settled for an Italian option. But really, even a well-known coach wouldn't have done better with this generation of Italian players. Italy is literally dead to produce real talent.

In attacking areas for sure, and depth of players. It's never been worse. Ironically, you might end up with overseas teams developing future Italy players, which started some years ago. Leoni, Coppola and Savona following on from Calafiori and Udogie.

They still have players good enough to qualify for a WC - Donnarumma, Bastoni, Calafiori, Cambiaso, Tonali, Barella are the core. There will be teams with worse players who make the WC, I'll guarantee it.

But Norway who are in their group have great attacking players, and that will probably be the difference.

 

[Ventus]

Except for France and England, I would say most international teams are weak compared to what they used to be.

 

[HelterSkelter]

Except for France and England, I would say most international teams are weak compared to what they used to be.

This is probably true.

Spain are still crazy good, but obviously don’t have the same quality they did during the 2010 era.

Portugal and Argentina have some great players too. Everything considered, Italy’s decline has just been ridiculously shambolic compared to the declines of other major European nations.

If you told someone who doesn’t know history that Italy have won 4 WCs, 2 Euros and had arguably the strongest league in history at one point, they’d probably laugh at you.


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[MrMonkey]

@Ventus @HelterSkelter good points for me meaning that parity has grown in sports both domestically and international. US dominated B-ball forever but other nations getting closer. LOL old man me the Ryder Cup was once players from only England and US. Tennis was all Down Under players being dominate.

Now for Italian soccer, all the superior technique in the world doesn't make up for lacking athleticism. No racist but let's get real, they could use more Black-Italian players. Will France national team ever get close to looking like US b-ball club? Ironic that token black is thrown around plenty, but token white appropriate for our b-ball team roster.

 

[JuveJay]

@Ventus @HelterSkelter good points for me meaning that parity has grown in sports both domestically and international. US dominated B-ball forever but other nations getting closer. LOL old man me the Ryder Cup was once players from only England and US. Tennis was all Down Under players being dominate.

Now for Italian soccer, all the superior technique in the world doesn't make up for lacking athleticism. No racist but let's get real, they could use more Black-Italian players. Will France national team ever get close to looking like US b-ball club? Ironic that token black is thrown around plenty, but token white appropriate for our b-ball team roster.

Quite an American take on things. Spain were one of the most dominant teams in international history and full of purely technical midgets. Football is not a sport where athleticism is king, but obviously if you align it with technique and skill it's formidable.

 

[MrMonkey]

Quite an American take on things. Spain were one of the most dominant teams in international history and full of purely technical midgets. Football is not a sport where athleticism is king, but obviously if you align it with technique and skill it's formidable.

Yes they were and still high quality Spain are, but IMO getting the best athletes >>> best technique players is gaining traction for all sports.

 

[s4tch]

depends on the team, but @Ventus has a point. many big teams look weaker because of the lack of characters, remarkable personalities, stars or whatever. not even their mothers will remember players like raspadori, zubimendi or madueke, even if they play sometimes happen to play key roles for their respective nt's. but this is modern football: athleticism over creativity, xg over a screamer from 35 meters, running over dribbling.

a few of today's world class players are truly excellent. yamal or mbappe would have been standout stars 20 years ago. the amount of true personalities though, that's appalling, at least for my boomer taste. in 2005, the world football was full of characters like ronaldinho, drogba, gerrard, kaká, eto'o, nesta, totti, original ronaldo, henry, sheva, and the whole juventus, even yanited starting 11 lol. italy might and probably will win world cups in the future, but odds are they will never have another team with players of buffon, totti, cannavaro, pirlo, del piero, gattuso or camoranesi caliber. now saka is probably considered a top10 player in the world lol.

but teams overall aren't much worse, if at all. average players are quicker, better in duels, more physical, and tactics also improved a lot. current dutch nt would beat the shit out of cruyff's legendary team - and i couldn't tell 3 current dutch players who'll surely be remembered in 20 years.

it is what it is, football changed a lot.

 

[JuveJay]

Yes they were and still high quality Spain are, but IMO getting the best athletes >>> best technique players is gaining traction for all sports.

To the detriment of the sport in the case of football. But I see what you're saying and I think it is a problem for Italy, thought this a while ago in comparison to England and France, for example. It's a smaller talent pool in terms of variation of skills. Who would have thought having better empires would have an affect on sport 150 years later.

When you think of the majority of the best footballers of all time you think of the highly technical players - Maradona, Pele, Messi, Cruijff, Platini, Zidane and so on. Athleticism obviously helps but it shouldn't be the deciding factor over fundamentals and skill. The NBA suffers this problem too but the opposite way around as Euro players are coming into the league with more skill. American players will largely dominate numbers for obvious reasons, and still have many great players, bit they have different skill sets and are more reliant on athleticism.

Italy's problems don't simply sit with talent pool though, they simply refuse to work for the better of the sport. Youth teams are sometimes taking to the field with 11 foreign players. Nothing is done about stadiums. They're a joke.

 

[Alex-444]

 

[Siamak]

Except for France and England, I would say most international teams are weak compared to what they used to be.

England has never appeared as a champion, just look at the number of titles in WC and EURO that they have won.
Portugal has a solid squad, they playing dynamically and their recent results have been impressive. I predict the winner of WC comes from South America, either Brazil or Argentina would hoist the cup above their heads.
I'd like to see a surprise and the final between Brazil and Japan.

 

[s4tch]

i just want to see gattuso slap barella

almost

https://football-italia.net/raspadori-gattuso-slaps-genuine-back-of-neck/
https://football-italia.net/bastoni-gattuso-gave-italy-some-slaps-wake-up/

no bad translations here, both said on camera that gattuso literally slapped them at halftime

 

[Alen]

@Ventus @HelterSkelter good points for me meaning that parity has grown in sports both domestically and international. US dominated B-ball forever but other nations getting closer. LOL old man me the Ryder Cup was once players from only England and US. Tennis was all Down Under players being dominate.

Now for Italian soccer, all the superior technique in the world doesn't make up for lacking athleticism. No racist but let's get real, they could use more Black-Italian players. Will France national team ever get close to looking like US b-ball club? Ironic that token black is thrown around plenty, but token white appropriate for our b-ball team roster.

EURO 2020 - winners Italy (0 black players)
Coppa America 2020 - winners Argentina (0 black players)
World Cup 2022 - winners Argentina (0 black players)
EURO 2024 - winners Spain (1 and a half black players)
Coppa America 2024 - winners Argentina (0 black players)


Talentless black players are the problem with today's football, not the solution.
Just like you, "no racist but let's get real".

 

[Ventus]

This is probably true.

Spain are still crazy good, but obviously don’t have the same quality they did during the 2010 era.

Portugal and Argentina have some great players too. Everything considered, Italy’s decline has just been ridiculously shambolic compared to the declines of other major European nations.

If you told someone who doesn’t know history that Italy have won 4 WCs, 2 Euros and had arguably the strongest league in history at one point, they’d probably laugh at you.


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The biggest decline for me is Brazil.

Miss the days of Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Romario, Ronaldinho etc.

Still have good players but they just don't excite me.

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England has never appeared as a champion, just look at the number of titles in WC and EURO that they have won.
Portugal has a solid squad, they playing dynamically and their recent results have been impressive. I predict the winner of WC comes from South America, either Brazil or Argentina would hoist the cup above their heads.
I'd like to see a surprise and the final between Brazil and Japan.

England have a much better team on paper than what they usually have though.