i think this player is underrated. needs more time to prove himself. he's barely started for the team
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Arthur (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mandzukic17
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He has shown nothing to warrant a starting place at Juve.Hell of a lot better passer than all our other mids.
You can at least trust that of everyone in the team Arthur will likely not be the one giving the ball away in dangerous positions.
Many posts trivialize the fact that he protects the ball and spins around looking for a pass, but we need that. He is our most press resistant player. When teams try to choke our midfielder and first ball from the back Arthur is the one able to release that pressure and it shows. Bentancur, Rabiot, Ramsey, and McKennie are too often forced into making mistakes because of a good press.
His fitness is the issue, otherwise he is head and shoulders our best mid to play in front of the defense. He isn't a complete player but at least he can offer better in his position than our other options.
You can at least trust that of everyone in the team Arthur will likely not be the one giving the ball away in dangerous positions.
Many posts trivialize the fact that he protects the ball and spins around looking for a pass, but we need that. He is our most press resistant player. When teams try to choke our midfielder and first ball from the back Arthur is the one able to release that pressure and it shows. Bentancur, Rabiot, Ramsey, and McKennie are too often forced into making mistakes because of a good press.
His fitness is the issue, otherwise he is head and shoulders our best mid to play in front of the defense. He isn't a complete player but at least he can offer better in his position than our other options.
Nonsense that he is a far better passer than our other mids. In his last match he passed the ball to the opposition about 3 times in the space of 30 seconds and lost it on multiple other occasions. If his pass does find the target it is usually at slow speed or to someone standing next to him. Not that our other mids are good passers. He also has no vision to spot a pass.
I completely agree he is the best at receiving the ball under pressure. He is very good at that. Issue is that not every team presses in such a way that it is necessary. Inter were largely happy to stand off. He also holds onto the ball too long when pressed, it keeps possession but it is not as though he is doing anything to beat the press. It just slows us down and gives the opposition time to get set.
He has no defensive awareness, slow, unfit, not a good tackler. Nothing that would make him a good holding midfielder other than he can keep the ball when pressed.
For me he is a luxury player. If the rest of the team was performing at a high level then maybe it would be good to have someone to hold onto the ball like him in a 3 man mid. But we aren't and his weaknesses outweigh this one excellent skill he has.
The fact that he hasn't shown enough to earn a starting place given how bad our midfield is and that he was our big signing is a disappointment.
I completely agree he is the best at receiving the ball under pressure. He is very good at that. Issue is that not every team presses in such a way that it is necessary. Inter were largely happy to stand off. He also holds onto the ball too long when pressed, it keeps possession but it is not as though he is doing anything to beat the press. It just slows us down and gives the opposition time to get set.
He has no defensive awareness, slow, unfit, not a good tackler. Nothing that would make him a good holding midfielder other than he can keep the ball when pressed.
For me he is a luxury player. If the rest of the team was performing at a high level then maybe it would be good to have someone to hold onto the ball like him in a 3 man mid. But we aren't and his weaknesses outweigh this one excellent skill he has.
The fact that he hasn't shown enough to earn a starting place given how bad our midfield is and that he was our big signing is a disappointment.
I definitely agree that he is a player for a 3 man midfield. For a 2 man midfield normally you need less specialist, more complete players.
Disagree that he isn't a better passer or has no vision for making a pass compared to our other players. The fact that he more often finds a target is evidence of having vision. It's not trivial to always keep the ball flowing, if it was then Barca's style would be ordinary.
Against Milan it was very clear. Bentancur missed 12 passes in 75 minutes. Arthur came on and missed 0 passes in that position, 100% accuracy.
Against Barca, Arthur with the highest passing accuracy of our midfielder, 90%. Ramsey 80%, Bentancur in 15 minutes 67%.
Not that Bentancur or Rabiot can't do great, but they are less consistent in this. Arthur on average has the most passes and the highest passing accuracy of our midfielders.
He needs to get better stamina and improve all around, but he is useful and his set of skills is not common.
Disagree that he isn't a better passer or has no vision for making a pass compared to our other players. The fact that he more often finds a target is evidence of having vision. It's not trivial to always keep the ball flowing, if it was then Barca's style would be ordinary.
Against Milan it was very clear. Bentancur missed 12 passes in 75 minutes. Arthur came on and missed 0 passes in that position, 100% accuracy.
Against Barca, Arthur with the highest passing accuracy of our midfielder, 90%. Ramsey 80%, Bentancur in 15 minutes 67%.
Not that Bentancur or Rabiot can't do great, but they are less consistent in this. Arthur on average has the most passes and the highest passing accuracy of our midfielders.
He needs to get better stamina and improve all around, but he is useful and his set of skills is not common.
It is easy to have 100% pass success when you pass it 5 yards to the guy standing next to you. It is the same reason guys like Demiral and Rugani have decent pass % despite not being good with the ball. People get far too hung up on stats. They don't show you the passes he chooses not to make, the speed of his passing, the distance, how long he has held the ball before making the pass.
He does not regularly find his target when it is not to the guy next to him. I clearly remember in his last game numerous give aways.
Having a good pass % is not a benchmark for good vision. He often does not see passes which are available that are better options that what he chooses. A few seasons ago Leon Britton of Swansea had the highest pass % in Europe, it didn't make him a top mid with good vision.
I like mids who get on the ball and keep the ball moving and don't have anything against short passing if it is quick and effective. Arthur is far too often the opposite of that. He gets the ball dallies on it and makes a slow pass that doesn't really achieve much.
He did well against Barca, as everyone did. However, I would expect him to have a higher % than Ramsey given their roles and Bentancur given the stage of the game that he played.
He does not regularly find his target when it is not to the guy next to him. I clearly remember in his last game numerous give aways.
Having a good pass % is not a benchmark for good vision. He often does not see passes which are available that are better options that what he chooses. A few seasons ago Leon Britton of Swansea had the highest pass % in Europe, it didn't make him a top mid with good vision.
I like mids who get on the ball and keep the ball moving and don't have anything against short passing if it is quick and effective. Arthur is far too often the opposite of that. He gets the ball dallies on it and makes a slow pass that doesn't really achieve much.
He did well against Barca, as everyone did. However, I would expect him to have a higher % than Ramsey given their roles and Bentancur given the stage of the game that he played.
It isn't though, clearly, because the rest aren't able to do it. When an opposite player is on you, you don't need to make a hollywood pass. Usually you need to find an outlet around you, and Arthur can do that better. CBs have a high passing percent because much more of their passes are with no opposition player close to them. See how most CBs react to pressure to make it clear how its not a trivial thing to do: often CBs just kick up the field, or out, or make mistakes.
The higher up the field you are, the more pressure you will be on, so we should compare how players do in similar areas. How do Rabiot or Bentancur do in this aspect? worse than Arthur.
The higher up the field you are, the more pressure you will be on, so we should compare how players do in similar areas. How do Rabiot or Bentancur do in this aspect? worse than Arthur.
The issue is that Arthur will play the short 5 yard pass regardless of whether there is an opposition player on him, even if there is no pressure and an opportunity to pass forward. I'm not expecting him to make Hollywood passes. This is why his % is so high and why looking at stats to compare players of different style doesn't tell us much. When he tries longer passes they are often poor.
Bentancur has had a poor season but he attempts far more longer passes than Arthur, with varying success rate. Of course he will have a lower pass %. It is a pointless stat when you don't look at all other factors.
For me Arthur has shown no passing ability other than slow, short passing. He holds the ball too long, doesn't defend well, doesn't spot passing opportunities, has abysmal stamina. Nothing gives me confidence that he would be a successful holding mid. He is excellent at holding the ball under pressure. Is he worth starting for that one quality despite the weaknesses? Not for me.
Bentancur has had a poor season but he attempts far more longer passes than Arthur, with varying success rate. Of course he will have a lower pass %. It is a pointless stat when you don't look at all other factors.
For me Arthur has shown no passing ability other than slow, short passing. He holds the ball too long, doesn't defend well, doesn't spot passing opportunities, has abysmal stamina. Nothing gives me confidence that he would be a successful holding mid. He is excellent at holding the ball under pressure. Is he worth starting for that one quality despite the weaknesses? Not for me.
it's not his fault pirlo barely plays him.
he def has real issues like not being able to play full matches consistently, but he's been barely given a chance to show his talents. of our last 6 or 7 games, he has only started 1. he is asked to pass the ball around but the team's shape doesn't make sense. no organization. thats on the coach.
in allegri's or even conte's team. arthur would be a a valuable playmaker.
he def has real issues like not being able to play full matches consistently, but he's been barely given a chance to show his talents. of our last 6 or 7 games, he has only started 1. he is asked to pass the ball around but the team's shape doesn't make sense. no organization. thats on the coach.
in allegri's or even conte's team. arthur would be a a valuable playmaker.
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