Andrea Pirlo (87 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

Their ages isn't really my concern. Their level of performance is. Xavi's is arguably better than ever at the moment. Pirlo's has been steadily getting worse for the last 4 years or so. I accept your point about the standard of the teams around them to an extent though.

You can't just say it's useless to compare two players. That's nonsense.
It's useless to compare two very different players. Say, Pazzini and Krasic.
It's perfectly valid to compare two similar players though. Like Pirlo and Xavi or Inzaghi and Trezeguet.

Exactly. There's no doubt Pirlo's performance level has dropped over the years. Xavi's has not. That's quite clear.

Maybe he needs a change of seriously*, but that is a difficult trend to break at his age.

EDIT: Scenery*

 

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[acmilan]

Their ages isn't really my concern. Their level of performance is. Xavi's is arguably better than ever at the moment. Pirlo's has been steadily getting worse for the last 4 years or so. I accept your point about the standard of the teams around them to an extent though.

You can't just say it's useless to compare two players. That's nonsense.
It's useless to compare two very different players. Say, Pazzini and Krasic.
It's perfectly valid to compare two similar players though. Like Pirlo and Xavi or Inzaghi and Trezeguet.

the overall quality of the team surrounding a player influences the performance of that player as well, that's what I tried to explain - it is not Pirlo that has been getting worse over the past 4 years, it was Milan as a team overall ... similarly, it wasn't Xavi that has been getting better over this same period, it was Barca.
Look at Milan during the 1996-98 period, for instance, the team was abysmal back then and back then even players like Costacurta, Maldini, Baresi and many others looked pathetic ... does that mean they just forgot to play football for those 2 years or that they were simply dragged down by the overall quality of their teams?

And of course one cannot and should not compare players - different teams, different circumstances, different leagues, different just about everything ... if you still believe this sets up a good basis for comparison, be my guest

That has been worrying me.

and it should worry you but that's not Pirlo's fault after all

 

[The Curr]

the overall quality of the team surrounding a player influences the performance of that player as well, that's what I tried to explain - it is not Pirlo that has been getting worse over the past 4 years, it was Milan as a team overall ... similarly, it wasn't Xavi that has been getting better over this same period, it was Barca.
Look at Milan during the 1996-98 period, for instance, the team was abysmal back then and back then even players like Costacurta, Maldini, Baresi and many others looked pathetic ... does that mean they just forgot to play football for those 2 years or that they were simply dragged down by the overall quality of their teams?

And of course one cannot and should not compare players - different teams, different circumstances, different leagues, different just about everything ... if you still believe this sets up a good basis for comparison, be my guest

This thing about not being able to compare players baffles me. There's very little left to discuss about football if you stop comparing any players. So you've no opinion on who the best player in the world is because players play in different teams so you can't compare them?

Say Milan are linked to two players who play the same position. Surely you would prefer Milan to sign one instead of the other, because you think he's a better player? That's comparing players.

and it should worry you but that's not Pirlo's fault after all

I didn't say it was.

 

[Bjerknes]

I've been following Pirlo for a long time. He's not one of my favorite midfielders, but I still do enjoy watching him.

To me, his form has taken a hit, not because Milan has sucked over the years. He isn't as active as he once was in roaming the pitch and he isn't putting in the same sort of balls as much as he used to. That's not because the rest of his team sucked, because even though it did, he still had capable players around him, including Beckham and Ronaldinho.

 

[acmilan]

This thing about not being able to compare players baffles me. There's very little left to discuss about football if you stop comparing any players. So you've no opinion on who the best player in the world is because players play in different teams so you can't compare them?

Say Milan are linked to two players who play the same position. Surely you would prefer Milan to sign one instead of the other, because you think he's a better player? That's comparing players.

discussing about football by comparing players is something fans love doing, it's what keeps forum life on it feet ... that however has little to no value as to how true and relevant those discussions/comparisons are.

when you look at a new player for your team, you should not look at how that player performs in his current team but make projections as realistic as possible for how he would perform in YOUR team and system. That explains the "miracle" of a given star player failing to live up to expectations or a lesser known player all of a sudden becoming a miracle worker in his new team - it's all about figuring out which player fits best in a given system or set of circumstances.

Obviously, comparing players in this sense, as part of the aforementioned process, is all you can go on but it is still a guessing game in the end, hence why so many transfers turn out to be a bust. But this goes as far as comparing players based on who will be more suitable for your team's system - this does not give you a basis to declare one of them better than the other altogether, just a better fit for a given system.

As far as comparing players like people do in football forums - basically from the point of view of a source of universal truth by placing all players under the same denominator, even if they have little in common in terms of circumstances (in what team, league they play etc.) - that's just for the shear fun of forum life and a fun way of killing time ... as fun as it may be, however, that doesn't make it relevant to real life.

 

[acmilan]

I've been following Pirlo for a long time. He's not one of my favorite midfielders, but I still do enjoy watching him.

To me, his form has taken a hit, not because Milan has sucked over the years. He isn't as active as he once was in roaming the pitch and he isn't putting in the same sort of balls as much as he used to. That's not because the rest of his team sucked, because even though it did, he still had capable players around him, including Beckham and Ronaldinho.

well, as Milan fan, I think I can be relatively fair in saying that there is hardly a living soul on this forum who has followed Pirlo more closely than I have or is more familiar with the reasons for his decline over the past 3-4 years

Pirlo decline in form started when he was still 27-28 yo, immediately after that CL win in 2007. Obviously, age had nothing to do with it. The problem for that "decline" of his had the same source as the overall decline of Milan as a team - lack of motivation, which later on was re-enforced by the realization that Milan would not be making financial efforts to stay at the top of European football for some time.
This literary killed the team spirit, as players who had already won everything at club level, had nothing to play for and realized their time at the top of European football was over - you could actually see the lack of motivation on their faces and their listless performance on the field resulting in Milan not even making the CL for the 2008-2009 season. Once this period for Milan set in, Pirlo was merely engulfed by the overall mediocrity and lack of motivation in the "behavior" of the team, as a whole.

To top it all, Kaka was sold for the pure need to make a profit and cover the clubs financial losses - that was the first such transfer in the Brelusconi era - a top player to be sold for purely financial reasons (the Sheva transfer does not count) ... imagine the message this sent to the team.

As mentioned, the players' lack of determination was also the result of the management not being willing to make further financial sacrifices to improve the team. This can have a much stronger effect than people realize - for instance, the signing of Ibra and Robinho last summer made players like Seedorf,Nesta,Gattuso,Ambro and other perform at levels they had not enjoyed for several years ... basically, knowing that the management cares (by making a big signing) brings enthusiasm to all the rest ... Ibra and Binho would not have won Milan the title alone without all other key players getting back to the level they had till 2007.

Similarly, an example of the opposite effect, is Samdoria - once Garrone sold their 2 best players, that killed the motivation of Samp as team and we know how that ended.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Very well said mate

 

[ReBeL]

 

[JuveJay]

Agent Pirlo is tracking him well.

 

[Ahmed]

Problem is, who's going to be running while Pirlo makes all those passes?

Quag, Matri, Milos, Marchi, LW...

 

[Bianconero81]

..... And herein lies the problem.

 

[Bjerknes]

I love it how Marchisio is included by Ahmed as someone who makes threatening runs, mentioned in the same sentence and Krasic and Quag.

No offense, Ahmed, but you overrate Marchisio more than anyone on this forum.

 

[acmilan]

The "Andrea and Pippo" duet will be sorely missed - those two sneaky bastards




anyone still thinks it was just coincidence?

 

[Dostoevsky]

That's crazy

 

[acmilan]

That's crazy

crazy? ... no, that's just two men with a plan

 

[Fake Melo]

Sick bastards

 

[Salvatore]

crazy? ... no, that's just two men with a plan

I've grown to never question whether Inzaghi intends to do something brilliant.

 

[Ahmed]

I love it how Marchisio is included by Ahmed as someone who makes threatening runs, mentioned in the same sentence and Krasic and Quag.

No offense, Ahmed, but you overrate Marchisio more than anyone on this forum.

well he does make forays into the box, does he not?

 

[acmilan]

I've grown to never question whether Inzaghi intends to do something brilliant.

me too ... doing that stuff in Serie A game is one thing but doing it in a CL final when it became obvious it was gonna be a tight game with few chances to score, that was pure genius

 

[Bjerknes]

well he does make forays into the box, does he not?

He doesn't do it better than all sorts of attacking midfielders and box to boxers. You're trying to see something that isn't there.