Aids medics heading home (8 Viewers)

[Rami]

Aids medics heading home
24/07/2007 07:04 - (SA)

Sofia - The Bulgarian nurses given life sentences in Libya departed on Tuesday morning from Tripoli, according to relatives waiting at the airport in Sofia.
They were informed by the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry of the news.
Hopes were raised for the return of the five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor after talks on Monday in Libya with the European Union, backed by France's first lady Cecilia Sarkozy.
Bulgarian radio reported that the six medics were expected to leave Libya for Sofia accompanied by EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner.
The medics, who have been in prison since 1999, were found guilty of deliberately infecting 400 Libyan children with HIV/Aids in a Benghazi hospital.
They were sentenced to death, but last week Libya's Supreme Judicial Council commuted their death sentences to life in prison.
Bulgaria has initiated the necessary legal proceedings to have the five nurses and a Palestinian doctor, who has been granted Bulgarian citizenship, extradited to their homeland to serve out their sentences.
Bulgaria, along with Romania, joined the EU at the start of this year.
More than 400 parents of the Aids-infected Libyan children were awarded $1m each in compensation on Tuesday. Independent experts said the infections were caused by bad hygiene.




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What can I say about this? How can such a thing happen? I wonder what would have happened if the roles were switched, victims European and perpetrators Arab/Muslim/third world? 1 Million a head? What are they cattle? This is a disgrace for Europe!



Oh and about the last line, gimme a break...how can AIDS infect 400 children by "bad hygiene"

 

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[.zero]

This is really sickening, IMHO nothing is worse than harming children. Its not attributed to carelessness, its people just not caring.

 

[mikhail]

What can I say about this? How can such a thing happen? I wonder what would have happened if the roles were switched, victims European and perpetrators Arab/Muslim/third world? 1 Million a head? What are they cattle? This is a disgrace for Europe!

Oh and about the last line, gimme a break...how can AIDS infect 400 children by "bad hygiene"

Hey, why is this about "Europe"? That kind of nonsensical generalisation is typical of you Arabs.

Anyone know who the independent experts mentioned in the article are? I'd like to know a bit more information before I condemn either side.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I have bad hygiene and I don't have AIDS.

 

[Rami]

Hey, why is this about "Europe"? That kind of nonsensical generalisation is typical of you Arabs.

Hopes were raised for the return of the five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor after talks on Monday in Libya with the European Union, backed by France's first lady Cecilia Sarkozy.
Bulgarian radio reported that the six medics were expected to leave Libya for Sofia accompanied by EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldne.

See why?

And I didn't generalize, I merely wondered what would be the worlds reaction to the same incident but switched roles.

For one, the hypothetical Libyan perpetrators would have been probably labeled terrorists, the whole thing would have been described as a terrorist attack. While the Bulgarian aids were received with roses, hugs, and kisses, the Libyans would probably rot in jail up to year 2030.

Oh and don't get me started on the 1 M per head issue!

 

[Rami]

I have bad hygiene and I don't have AIDS.

You know that when your AIDS test results comes out and it says "positive", that isn't a good thing?

 

[mikhail]

See why?

I was kidding, though I admit, I skipped that paragraph anyway.

And I didn't generalize, I merely wondered what would be the worlds reaction to the same incident but switched roles.

I wish I could claim there'd have been a careful examination and a reasonable response, but I doubt that would have been the whole of it - the media, particularly the tabloid media from the Sun to SKY, would likely have reacted as you say.

Problem: one of two things happened, and we don't know which. Possibilities:
1) These people deliberately infected those children,
2) These people accidentally infected those children,
3) These people were not at fault.

I haven't seen enough detail anywhere to make an assumption about which of these is true (and I've grown ever more cynical of the media's ability to disseminate such information if they had it - see the link above). Anyway, roles reversed, I reckon such people in Europe wouldn't have gotten off in cases 1 or 2, and would have been subject to a media witch hunt in 3.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

You know that when your AIDS test results comes out and it says "positive", that isn't a good thing?

I've never been tested...so as far as I know, I'm not positive. I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[.zero]

Ya it’s the only test that I would prefer failing

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

And the gay test.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

hey rami, tough luck man

 

[.zero]

And the gay test.

Didn’t even show up for it

 

[Rami]

I was kidding, though I admit, I skipped that paragraph anyway.


I wish I could claim there'd have been a careful examination and a reasonable response, but I doubt that would have been the whole of it - the media, particularly the tabloid media from the Sun to SKY, would likely have reacted as you say.

Problem: one of two things happened, and we don't know which. Possibilities:
1) These people deliberately infected those children,
2) These people accidentally infected those children,
3) These people were not at fault.

I haven't seen enough detail anywhere to make an assumption about which of these is true (and I've grown ever more cynical of the media's ability to disseminate such information if they had it - see the link above). Anyway, roles reversed, I reckon such people in Europe wouldn't have gotten off in cases 1 or 2, and would have been subject to a media witch hunt in 3.

It's not like I build up my opinions on the issue as I type on this forum Mik. These exact three options came up to mind while thinking about the whole issue, people around me were enraged about it, I challenged them using those three possibilities. Just to play devil's advocate so to speak. But in reality here is what I think:

1-Possibility 1: They shouldn't be killed, but tortured then killed!

2-Possibility 2: Then it was an accident? Then why pay? I don't think that 400 Libyan couples would agree on that, and take it silently, these are their kids! To me it would more like shush money, and if you open your mouth the Libyan government would see to it that nobody hears a peep from them ever again.

3-A frame up? So why did "Europe" stay silent for 8 years?

Other possibility that was not raised is that it was an experiment went wrong, which is also atrocious!

 

[Rami]

hey rami, tough luck man

On what? This? TBH, the older I become the more desensitized I become. The world is fucked up. I would say there is 90% brain in this and 10% emotion from my part.

 

[Snoop]

What can I say about this? How can such a thing happen? I wonder what would have happened if the roles were switched, victims European and perpetrators Arab/Muslim/third world? 1 Million a head? What are they cattle? This is a disgrace for Europe!



Oh and about the last line, gimme a break...how can AIDS infect 400 children by "bad hygiene"

why are you that sensitive about this case? because they are Arabs? seriously there are lots of things going on in the world which are much worse than these, and no one cares about it. I really don't understand why you brought Europe and Terrorists to this. Terrorists do their job "for" their own people, Europeans do their job for their own. No Biggie!

 

[mikhail]

It's not like I build up my opinions on the issue as I type on this forum Mik. These exact three options came up to mind while thinking about the whole issue, people around me were enraged about it, I challenged them using those three possibilities. Just to play devil's advocate so to speak. But in reality here is what I think:

1-Possibility 1: They shouldn't be killed, but tortured then killed!

2-Possibility 2: Then it was an accident? Then why pay? I don't think that 400 Libyan couples would agree on that, and take it silently, these are their kids! To me it would more like shush money, and if you open your mouth the Libyan government would see to it that nobody hears a peep from them ever again.

3-A frame up? So why did "Europe" stay silent for 8 years?

Other possibility that was not raised is that it was an experiment went wrong, which is also atrocious!

I was thinking more 1) as you say, 2) is negligence, and inexcusable on this scale from trained medical staff, and 3) is probably accident. The possibility of them being framed didn't occur to me.

It's not clear to me why the money was paid, nor by whom. Too much of the detail is unclear.

 

[Rami]

why are you that sensitive about this case? because they are Arabs? seriously there are lots of things going on in the world which are much worse than these, and no one cares about it. I really don't understand why you brought Europe and Terrorists to this. Terrorists do their job "for" their own people, Europeans do their job for their own. No Biggie!

Well perhaps more awful things are happening to other people around the world, but its not like everyday a group of people systematically inject HIV into 400 children!

And also perhaps because they are Arabs I brought this up, it's only normal that one feels more sympathy towards people he/she could relate to. Had it happened to Peruvian children, I might not have brought it up, but that doesn't make it any less revolting.

Stick for their own? If the reports are true, these 6 are COLD BLOODED murderers! Not only that they are MASS MURDERERS, and perhaps committed genocide! Heads of states, first ladies, special envoys all intervened to extradite these murderers. Had these nurses did their crime in say, the Netherlands, would Europe leave the punishment go its normal course, or would some prime minister intervened? Would they have been condemned or extradited and then released in Bulgaria?

And me bringing up terrorist is just an answer to my own question if roles were switched. I don't think anybody would disagree on that, but this is not the issue, the issue here is how is the watching silently at this heinous crime (along many others)?

While terrorist in most cases represent nobody but themselves, high officials from European countries who represent the people intervened in this one. A crime committed by a terrorist does not represent the people of the terrorist's country, perhaps the government, but not the people. In this case these high officials who represent their people intervened to save some murderers in broad day light and in front of everybody with no shame! I am sure most Europeans condemn the Bulgarian's act, but these officials nonetheless represent them.

 

[Rami]

I was thinking more 1) as you say, 2) is negligence, and inexcusable on this scale from trained medical staff, and 3) is probably accident. The possibility of them being framed didn't occur to me.

It's not clear to me why the money was paid, nor by whom. Too much of the detail is unclear.

While Ghaddafi has been ostracized by the West for 20 years, this is just a political ploy from this guys demented mind to get closer to Europe, 20 years ago he would have executed them without even blinking. It's not only Europe at fault, Muamar is even more at fault. IMO.

 

[Snoop]

Well perhaps more awful things are happening to other people around the world, but its not like everyday a group of people systematically inject HIV into 400 children!

And also perhaps because they are Arabs I brought this up, it's only normal that one feels more sympathy towards people he/she could relate to. Had it happened to Peruvian children, I might not have brought it up, but that doesn't make it any less revolting.

Stick for their own? If the reports are true, these 6 are COLD BLOODED murderers! Not only that they are MASS MURDERERS, and perhaps committed genocide! Heads of states, first ladies, special envoys all intervened to extradite these murderers. Had these nurses did their crime in say, the Netherlands, would Europe leave the punishment go its normal course, or would some prime minister intervened? Would they have been condemned or extradited and then released in Bulgaria?

And me bringing up terrorist is just an answer to my own question if roles were switched. I don't think anybody would disagree on that, but this is not the issue, the issue here is how is the watching silently at this heinous crime (along many others)?

While terrorist in most cases represent nobody but themselves, high officials from European countries who represent the people intervened in this one. A crime committed by a terrorist does not represent the people of the terrorist's country, perhaps the government, but not the people. In this case these high officials who represent their people intervened to save some murderers in broad day light and in front of everybody with no shame! I am sure most Europeans condemn the Bulgarian's act, but these officials nonetheless represent them.

I know what you are talking about, I am not defending these "6 murderers", I am telling you that EU or the Europeans will defend these guys, because they are their own people. If the case was happened in Netherlands, they would give them at least the same punishment, I know people's reaction would differ If they were Arabs committed these in Europe . But I can Imagine how the Libians will feel against any easter European girls these days.

EU's reaction is very natural, they will "protect" their citizen's rights, and nothing is wrong with that. Just like most of Arab or Islamic Governments don't interfere to punish their citizens, or go after them If they are Terrorists and committed their Terror works outside of their lands. Welcome to the world of hypocrisy, none of them is different than other.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Didn’t even show up for it

I got a hard on....I FAILED!