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You will when/if they win.

I care about Chiesa.

Loved Chiellini's cameo.

Maybe. I have my doubts.

I am willing to concede that some legends might qualify to 1st tier even without a CL (very very few, larger than life legends like Buffon and R9), but Chiellini isn't one of them IMO.

We all are, some are in denial :D 1652891255 No, you have to win it as a starter/protagonist during the season.

WC and Euro happens every 4 years, shit happens and one can fail to win them. But CL is played every season, one cannot be claimed to be 1st tier legend without a CL. Yes, including R9, Buffon and others. This applies to post-1990 period, when CL became the most prestigious club tournament.

Exactly. Every time I wanna praise one of our players others immidiatly say "but no CL", and shut me up :D We have a saying: "Evdə xoruz, çöldə fərə", which means "a rooster at home, but a chick outside of home". It is said every time Juve is mentioned lol

Neutrals dont give a shit about domestic trophies guys. Just accept it. I know it's hard for a Juve fan to admit.

yep, he is not.

No CL = no 1st tier. It's my opinion and I think most neutrals see it that way. If you have a 20-25 season career and don't win a CL in that span (don't care how or thanks to whom), you are not a 1st tier legend in my opinion. ESPECIALLY for players after 1990.

Scirea, Maldini, Ramos, Nesta, Beckenbauer, Puyol etc.

for sure, but my theory of legendary-ness tiers is based on all time, not generation.

Indeed. But that's how it is. There are tiers to everything, including legendary-ness.

Chiello is definitely a Juve and Azzurri legend; but a second tier legend (below Scirea for example) for both, because of the missing CL and WC titles. Just fact.

Ibrahimovic is most definitely a CL choker and so is R9, and so is Nedved yes (you don't get booked there, I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't bad luck, that was dumb). I already clarified that there are general chokers and then there are a CL chokers. You guys are thinking like Juve...

I clarified in my edit. You can't call Buffon and Chiellini chokers in general either, because they've won a lot, but you CAN call them CL chokers. Simple really.

yep, you can say he choked right then and there, but you can't call him a choker in general.

I said it a million times: winning it just once absolves one of any choker claims, no matter what happens/happened before or since. Chiellini and Buffon and every other Juve player since 1996 are CL chokers. Brutal truth.

Dude this whole debate started with his mistake together with Chiellini that resulted in the Ronaldo bycicle. And you missed it :lol: