Will it be a problem if Juve doesn't win the CL this season? (1 Viewer)

[Dj Juve]

++ [ originally posted by nowhereman ] ++
I see many poeple in the world of football fancy about things that called "creativity". What is "creativity"? Does it help to solve all the problem???

If you say that the team with high creativity will win then it would be Juve who would have win the Scudetto in the CL 2000, 2001. Yes, that team had Zidane, the most creative playmaker in the World. But what were the results? Juve lost 2 CL final and 2 Scudetto in 5 seasons. Why?

Let's take a look back at the team that won Scudetto in the year 1995 and CL in 1996. Was it the team who had a super creative midfielder? Was it the team that is creative enough? I don't think so. I don't think Ravanelli, Deschamps, Di Livio.... and even Vialli are creative players. Instead, they are very competitive players. And Juve at that time had all the powerful players at every positions and most of all, that is because their playstyle. They played extremely effectively, consistently and most of all the Italian style. Never makes a mistake and then wait for their opponents' mistake to punish them. Remember how tremendous the team vs Juve in the CL final 96 was. Oh, the current Real, MU are just children compared with them. Juve won because of their extremely effectively players.
And I don't understand why poeple see the problem with the current Juve. You are not sastified with Nedved, Davids, Zambrotta , Tacchinardi , .... It's unjust. Nedved is the most coveted player in Serie A. His qualities are always very good for any team. Davids, defensive midfield as someone thinks. No, absurd. Davids is not only a DM. He is both an AM and DM. And his playstyle scatters the scare to other team.

No, I don't think we have problem with creativity. With ZZ, I've many times seen that Juve had deadlock on scoring against weaker team. And I don't think that Real's squad is more perfect than Juve. Their defend always has problem and because they play offensively so much, they leave many hole behind and I don't think they will win Juve if they face them.

For me, the problem is the form of the players. This season we will see another Juve because new players has adapted to Juve and because the schedule this season won't make many discomfortable to Juve. Last season, remember we had many matches posponed and rescheduled.

1. the reason we lost to straight Scudettos was because of the wrong mentality.
2. Are u saying that we dont need creative players. have u notice that valencia have become major contenders in the past seasons because of players like Mendieta, Aimar, Gonzalez, Vicente, Baraja etc....not because of Carew or some other big-sized powerful players. im not saying that we dont need powerful players like Davids...im just saying that with flairful and creative midfielders, there are more chances of scoring, and even entertaining.
3. are you satisfied with the way we played last season. i was delighted Juve won the Scudetto, but i cant hide my dissapointment that juve won it because Inter slipped up. and we lost to Parma in the COPPA. I want to win the Serie A, tha way MU wins the EPL. Convincingly

 

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[jaansu]

I'm with you on this one DJ, we need someone who will create goalscoring chances out of nothing, someone who will run at defenses fill defenders with fear.

It is great to see Juve win the scudetto last year but I think Inter lost it more than us winning it. We need to progress, to be more convincing in Serie a and actually challenging for the CL.

Why are people satisfied to see us winning 1-0, ok its a win but quite a few times in the last couple of seasons we have been winning 1-0 and in the end a goal is scored (eg against Brescia in 00-01 and against Parma in 99-00) and 2 points are dropped which could lead to winning or losing the Scudetto. Scoring a goal and sitting back to defend is no way to play football, you will just get caught out.

 

[denco]

Its always so baffling to me when football being an entertainment is turned into something else. " we don't need creative players" " we lost the scudetto with the most creative player in the world in Zz". " I don't care if juve win 1-0 as long as we do win"
This side is superior to Real madrid , Please how?

We did not win the league with Zz because we had Ancelotti as manager, when Lippi was there we won the league as the best in the league and one of the if not the best in the world.

You cannot win Cl without creativity, and you cannot every year be hoping your main rivals slip up so that you can sneak and win the league.

It seems the wc has taught us nothing, the Arsenals, Masnchester uniteds and Real madrids of this world will always do well because they have creativity and in Cl they will always be ther or there abouts

The team of 95/96, did have creativity in Sousa and Dp, but maybe not enough but they did win on penalties so thats another reason you need creative players

 

[nowhereman]

This is a really fancinating subject.

Obviously, every people here like creativity. I, actually, also like it. Yes, my favourite players are always Del Piero, Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff. However, I also couldn't stand to see poeple keep crying about "the lack of a creative player". I don't agree with it. Del Piero is not enough???? If you think so then for sure you don't believe in Del Piero. It couldn't aslo be blamed. Del Piero doesn't still get back his wonderfulnness.

I'm with you on this one DJ, we need someone who will create goalscoring chances out of nothing, someone who will run at defenses fill defenders with fear.

If so, jaansu then we have Del Piero and even Salas.

You cannot win Cl without creativity, and you cannot every year be hoping your main rivals slip up so that you can sneak and win the league.
...
The team of 95/96, did have creativity in Sousa and Dp, but maybe not enough but they did win on penalties so thats another reason you need creative players

Why can't we win CL without creativity, denco? You think that Dortmund 97, Real 98, MU 99, Bayern 2001 are teams with high creativity??? I don't believe it. And I don't think Sousa is a creative player. The team of 95/96 had only Del Piero and now we also have him.

Yes, last season was disappointed if we mention about how we played. To win when the rivals slipped up was not what we can be sastified with. But we must take a look at all the events happening around the team to see that the win is still a deserved one. Obviously, the first thing is that we had many injuries. We had many injuries in very important moments of the season. Second, if we don't mention about injuries then we must accept that there is also about the problem of Davids, Tacchinardi and Nedved. Was it the Davids at the 3/4 of season the Davids of last 1/4 of the season? Was it the real Davids? Nedved, could he adjust immediately to the team? And Tacchinardi, where was he? And last, when we take a look at the team at the end of the season, we will have the hope for future. How did they play? No words could describe it.

So, if you said that we just waited for the opponents slipping up to win, I must say I totally disagree with it. And you must admit with me that this season we will actually see the real Juventus. Now we have many advantages in the preparation process, we don't have to qualify for the CL and we have a strong, not affected much by injuries and quality modified squad. That is really good condition for a team and if they don't win it will be a huge disappoint.

The thing we must have to accept is that we must be sastified with our squad now. Actually we don't need a creative player. You don't think that to find a creative player now is very difficult, do you??? We can still play well and entertain with players like Del Piero, Salas, Nedved, Davids.... You don't think that the world always have to be jealous to see Davids play when he is at his top form and Nedved with his powerful strike and his sprint and his work rate. That 's not to say Del Piero. And remember this squad can win with the score 3-0, 4-0 easily.... And to say, they are not inferior to Real. I hope Real will face us to see the result.

 

[Reza]

i feel this time juve have everything in control ,,but anyway it's a disaster to see juve without cl trophy...
i don't know how much i've to live to see juve will have won 10th
CL cup .
i want it guys ,i want.

 

[nowhereman]

Destiny is so strange. Real can win the CL even when they are not the strongest. And Juve cannot even when they are the strongest. Juve always win the Scudetto but hardly ever dominate the Europe. They seems to run out of energy for just a tournament.

 

[Desmond]

++ [ originally posted by nowhereman ] ++
Destiny is so strange. Real can win the CL even when they are not the strongest. And Juve cannot even when they are the strongest. Juve always win the Scudetto but hardly ever dominate the Europe. They seems to run out of energy for just a tournament.

juve the strongest?
real not the srongest?

 

[Dj Juve]

++ [ originally posted by nowhereman ] ++
This is a really fancinating subject.

Obviously, every people here like creativity. I, actually, also like it. Yes, my favourite players are always Del Piero, Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff. However, I also couldn't stand to see poeple keep crying about "the lack of a creative player". I don't agree with it. Del Piero is not enough???? If you think so then for sure you don't believe in Del Piero. It couldn't aslo be blamed. Del Piero doesn't still get back his wonderfulnness.

it's isnt because i dont have enough believe in DP, it's just that what if he gets injured..what will we do then huh? and even if he isnt injured, being the only creative player(out of 10 outfield player) can be a bit stressful

example: Zidane, endless creativity with thhe ball, and France relied on him too much. the didnt bring more flairful players along, that why the lost(along with bad bad luck)

If so, jaansu then we have Del Piero and even Salas.

salas is a striker. he's mainly suppose to take chances, not make for other...

Why can't we win CL without creativity, denco? You think that Dortmund 97, Real 98, MU 99, Bayern 2001 are teams with high creativity??? I don't believe it. And I don't think Sousa is a creative player. The team of 95/96 had only Del Piero and now we also have him.

i'll give u an example....when we lost to Arsenal, many said it was because of the injury problem, which is true. but we also lacked the ability to tear up the opponent's defence.

Yes, last season was disappointed if we mention about how we played. To win when the rivals slipped up was not what we can be sastified with. But we must take a look at all the events happening around the team to see that the win is still a deserved one. Obviously, the first thing is that we had many injuries. We had many injuries in very important moments of the season.

injuries are injuries. If Inter had Ronaldo and Vieri, two star players) out for so long, how come they almost won the Scudetto?
we should be able to have a bench of players who are capable of making chances and making a difference(like real's)

Second, if we don't mention about injuries then we must accept that there is also about the problem of Davids, Tacchinardi and Nedved. Was it the Davids at the 3/4 of season the Davids of last 1/4 of the season? Was it the real Davids? Nedved, could he adjust immediately to the team? And Tacchinardi, where was he? And last, when we take a look at the team at the end of the season, we will have the hope for future. How did they play? No words could describe it.

yes there were injuries, but like i said, a club with the stature like Juve shouldnt use excuses like that...we're one of the most richest clubs in the world, im sure we can afford to bring some flair here

So, if you said that we just waited for the opponents slipping up to win, I must say I totally disagree with it. And you must admit with me that this season we will actually see the real Juventus. Now we have many advantages in the preparation process, we don't have to qualify for the CL and we have a strong, not affected much by injuries and quality modified squad. That is really good condition for a team and if they don't win it will be a huge disappoint.

at the beginning of last season, we also had hardly or no injuries at all, injuries occur during the season, when we play games
last season we were rated as one of the highest seeds in the CL, and we failed to make it to the final round for the second straight time

The thing we must have to accept is that we must be sastified with our squad now. Actually we don't need a creative player. You don't think that to find a creative player now is very difficult, do you??? We can still play well and entertain with players like Del Piero, Salas, Nedved, Davids.... You don't think that the world always have to be jealous to see Davids play when he is at his top form and Nedved with his powerful strike and his sprint and his work rate. That 's not to say Del Piero. And remember this squad can win with the score 3-0, 4-0 easily.... And to say, they are not inferior to Real. I hope Real will face us to see the result.

yes we have a impressive force. but look we dont even have a natural playmaker. we dont have a proper experienced replacement for pessotto. we have only four striker...four striker..4..IMO,our squad is far from being complete

 

[denco]

Nowhere man, you will disappointed if we don't win the cl will you? What i never understand from ppl is how a team can perform badly in a competition in 1 season and the next season wihtout actually improving the squad to a great extent will win it. You think its coincidence that Italian teams have underperformed of late in Europe and please spare me the pathetic excuse that its because they are concentrating on serieA, and Seria is so intense.

If you don't think that Real Madrid and Man united have creative players then whats the point in having a discussion, what are the likes of zz, figo, raul, Beckham, Giggs and Veron?

We all love Dp but he cannot do it by himself, besides he is not the old cocky, confident, fast Dp of old, its a more mature, controlled less exciting Dp we have now.

Injuries is something i won't discuss for a club who pays £33m on a goalkeeper shpuld never ever use injuries as an excuse

A team which has not won an away match in Europe for 4 years, the juve of old would never have gone thru that patch

And what do u mena we don't have to qualify for cl proper, did we do that last year no we did not

 

[nowhereman]

Maybe, the more we talk the more we go far from the subject.

1. DJ Juve, we can't say that we need a creative player because of Del Piero's injury. Actually, I think the problem is that most of you prefer the team to play with a playmaker with high creativity. As for me, I don't think a team must have one. Before MU bought Veron, they didn't have a real playmaker and they still succeeded in all the competition. That is because of the quality of their players.

2. Inter bought tons of players and if Ronaldo or Vieri were injured then they still had Recoba, Kallon, Ventola.... You underate these players????

3. Yes, Juve is one of the most richest in the world. But... If I were Moggi, i also wouldn't spend money to bought too much players and then waste them. Moggi is a business man and I think he understand more clearly about the money matter than us. A club couldn't spend season over season big sums of money. They have to pay the players especially the best players a lot of money. Don't you think so? Live football is not like the CM 2001-2002 games.

4. The ability to tear up opponent's defence, I saw it in the match against Arsenal. I still remember the heel-touching of Del Piero to put Nedved in the position to score goal. If he scored then maybe the situation would be different. Anyway, if is always if.

5.

at the beginning of last season, we also had hardly or no injuries at all, injuries occur during the season, when we play games
last season we were rated as one of the highest seeds in the CL, and we failed to make it to the final round for the second straight time

You forgot that we've just bought 4 new players and let two most important go. How could the team get into gear?

6. Four strikers are enough, I think, plus we have young players to cover. Anyway, I think you underrate Zalayeta. That would be wrong! Why does Moggi chase any other striker? Because he has belief in Zalay, i think. And I believe he is an excellent player even in this season.

Denco
1. Being a Juve fan, obviously I want to see Juve win the CL. Scudetto is too familiar with them. And because winning the CL will bring much more fame and support all over the world for a team. And let's me ask you why you think we have to extent the current squad then we can have chance to win the CL. As for me, this squad is too enough. The problem remained is just tactic, playstyle and the coach's brain.

2. I pointed out the specific MU, Real, Bayern. Those teams didn't have ZZ, Figo, Veron... at that time. As for Raul, Giggs, and Beckham, if you said that they were creative players then it must be wrong. Ask the forum, how many will consider them as creative players. If they were then Ronaldo would be too.

3. In my opinion, Moggi is an realistic. Spending £33 on a goalkeeper is his investment. And any team could be marred by injuries not only rich clubs or small club. Let's see MU last season, and Milan, the real contenders of last season

 

[Dj Juve]

is it so wrong to buy oen or two creative players huh? whats wrong with that?

 

[kristian1199]

It´s stupid to spend money to player´s that we don´t need!!!!!!!!!!! Moggi is a great business man, but I still think that spending £33M for Gigi was plain stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! van der Sar was good enough for us!!!!!!!! I think we should loan a third keeper, because I think we need 3 good keepers, last year we had this year we only have 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We shouldn´t have bought Fresi, Baccin or Moretti!!!!!!! we should have bought a player who can play in the defence at left, right and centre and in midfield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We too didn´t need Camoranesi or Baiocco!!!!!!! And we need a striker!!!!!

 

[denco]

Nowhereman i hate to say this but after reading your posts, i don't think you know what a creative player is, if you can ask if giggs, Beckham and Raul are creative.

You don't have to wear number 10 or play behind the strikers to be termed creative.

Maybe you have not seen enough of Raul to ask if he is creative, he is not like Ronaldo who is an out and out striker.

There are not that many palyers with Beckham's vision of passing and he may not know how to dribble but he is creative while Giggs there are few better going at ppl wiht pace taking them on and creating openings.

Anyway you say teams like manu united , real madrid did not have creative players which i totally disagree but they have other qualities which we lack e.g pace

Noone is saying underrating of Zalayeta but tell me which striker in Milan, Inter, Man united, Real Madrid, Roma is he better than

Our bench is still the same lack of true quality as it was last season and its no coincidence that any small injury worries we look a very average squad indeed

 

[delpi25]

juve have the class to win the champions league final, i think it would be respectible to get to the semi finals atleast

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by kristian1199 ] ++
It´s stupid to spend money to player´s that we don´t need!!!!!!!!!!! Moggi is a great business man, but I still think that spending £33M for Gigi was plain stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! van der Sar was good enough for us!!!!!!!! I think we should loan a third keeper, because I think we need 3 good keepers, last year we had this year we only have 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We shouldn´t have bought Fresi, Baccin or Moretti!!!!!!! we should have bought a player who can play in the defence at left, right and centre and in midfield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We too didn´t need Camoranesi or Baiocco!!!!!!! And we need a striker!!!!!

I agree with all of those points.

 

[nowhereman]

++ [ originally posted by [DJ Juve] ] ++
is it so wrong to buy oen or two creative players huh? whats wrong with that?

DJ_Juve, the problem is that Moggi think we don't need one and I also agree with him. Lippi has been constructing a different playstyle and the players are getting familiar with it. Why do we have to buy one and build the play around him? It takes a lot of time and risks. Why do we exploit all the excellent players we have at our disposal? The problem, I think, is that all of us want to see an entertaining player to play for our team.

Nowhereman i hate to say this but after reading your posts, i don't think you know what a creative player is, if you can ask if giggs, Beckham and Raul are creative.

Denco, I don't want to argue about this. We should have a thread to discuss about this problem with all other people in the forum. However, pesonally, I don't think Raul, Giggs and even Beckham are creative players. His vision and passing skill are not enough for a creative player. Can he do upto the standard of Veron? Ferguson has tried him as a playmaker many times but unsuccessfully. Giggs, he's wonderful pace and dribbling skill and tricks, and personally I also don't think he's a creative player. He is a swinger by all its mean. Raul, thing is worse. You can call them high skilled players but can't assign them creative. They aren't players who keep and control the play. And i've never read any article which said that they are creative players, too.

Zalayeta, time will show us that he's a true champion and a talent. Remember his age. He is not inferior to any other strikers of any big team in the world. His goal against Arsenal and his thunderstorm perform in the Italian Cup against Parma show us how good he is.

 

[denco]

I am just beginning to understand what you regard as a creative player, a player which every play goes through, not necessarily so like in Real madrid ,zz is creative but there are others as well.

Ferguson has never played Beckham as a playmaker as he doesn't play that kind of system.

Zalayeta is slow, ball control poor, and because he played very well in 2 games, one meaningless, the other ultimately fruitless does not make him a true champion

Btw if Raul is not creative is Del piero creative? and if you think he is please tell me why

 

[Slagathor]

Raul not creative? I'm not even taking part in that discussion!

I agree with denco on Zalayeta as well - I'm not convinced by him at all!

 

[Dj Juve]

i wouldnt put raul in the same creativity class as ZZ, but he is quite creative....but he's a striker and strikers dont exactly have to be creative.

creative, me thinks, means being able to set up killer passes and pull out something unexpected and incredible, something players like figo and ZZ and rivaldo are reknowned for.....

players like raul are creative in their own sense....creative in making that extra space for a shot and stuff like that....

 

[Ian]

Raul is creative if Del Piero is creative. They are both winger/forwards, and play almost the same game. I thinkthat both are creative, but niether is a 'playmaker'.