"Was Georgie the Best?" (2 Viewers)

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
#1


Perhaps the best pointer to where George Best sits among the footballing gods comes from the man generally reckoned to be the best.

Pele himself once dubbed Best "the greatest footballer in the world".

Whether that was an honest, realistic assessment or a diplomatic platitude can be argued long into the night.

But does Best deserve to be up there with Pele and Diego Maradona?

Rating the greats is always something of an empty exercise, and if you are dealing in the currency of cold hard facts and statistics, then the Belfast Boy doesn't measure up.

Pele's avalanche of 1,280 goals in a career that stretched over 20 years dwarfs just about any other player.

And it could be argued that Maradona won the World Cup almost single-handedly for Argentina in 1986.

There will be those who argue that Best never proved himself on the biggest stage, but it is grossly unfair to pit Best's international career for Northern Ireland against World Cup winners Pele and Maradona.

Fifa's Player of the Century award was a masterclass in fence-sitting as Pele and Maradona carried off the spoils, with Best not in the frame.

But is greatness purely to be measured in terms of silverware and numbers? Best won his share of honours, but his greatness was something that could not be quantified.

People might have stared awe-struck at Pele's magnificence and rejoiced in Maradona's devilry and dash.

But they were transfixed, bewitched and delighted by the impish, cheeky skills of Best that invariably brought a smile to all except the defenders who had to face him.

Pele devotees will recall the 1970 World Cup as his finest hour - the sublime chest control that allowed him to lash in a goal against Czechoslovakia, the attempt from his own half against the same country, the outrageous dummy that left Uruguay keeper Ladislao Masurkiewicz looking haplessly for man or ball.

Fans of Maradona will point to perhaps the greatest World Cup goal ever, the mesmerising run from the half-way line against England.

But no-one will forget Best's goal against Benfica in the 1968 European Cup final where he broke clear, kept the coolest of heads and left the keeper groping with a body swerve that would have dislocated the hips of a mere mortal.

A common denominator shared by the three was the early start to their careers at an age when most kids are sitting school exams.

By 18, Pele had won a World Cup, which mapped out the rest of a career, that until he was tempted out of retirement by the American dollar, was spent in Brazil.

Having been declared a National Treasure by the Brazilian government, Pele was never given the chance to test himself in European club football.

Unfortunately, both Maradona and Best were possessed by a self-destructive spirit, which left everyone unfulfilled and wanting more.

Maradona had already scaled the footballing summit in winning the 1986 World Cup when he hit the slippery slope in 1994, testing positive for drugs.

Best walked out at the top of his game when he was 28, but the early start to his career still meant he had played 11 seasons for Manchester United in arguably the toughest league in the world.

However, when he left, he may have had his best years to come and for that reason, many will argue that Best gave up his right to be considered the best that ever was.

All three also refused to go quietly once in the twilight of their careers.

Pele paraded his fading skills for New York Cosmos in the cause of boosting soccer in the States, while Maradona tried to coax his unwilling body to one last hurrah with the likes of Newell's Old Boys.

Best's farewell tour included Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham (alongside Bobby Moore), Hibernian, Bournemouth and Brisbane Lions, and also took in a Stateside leg.

But the ridicule they risked in playing past their sell-by date should be excused given their services to the game as a whole.

So with all factors taken into consideration, is there a definitive answer to the question 'who was the best'?

Probably not.

But what is sure is that George Best earned his right to be mentioned in the same breath as Pele, Maradona and other greats too.

And Pele certainly had his idea of who the Best man was.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4309502.stm

PHP:
 PELE
Career goals: 1,280
92 caps, 77 goals for Brazil
Played in 3 World Cup winning squads
2 World Club Cups with Santos
Declared a National Treasure by Brazil govt.
Also played for New York Cosmos
PHP:
DIEGO MARADONA
91 caps, 34 goals for Argentina
1 WC winners medal, 1 runners-up
International debut at 16 v Hungary
South American player of the year 1979, 1980
Unlike Pele, played in Europe
Won league title with Barcelona, Napoli
Fifa Internet player of the century
PHP:
 GEORGE BEST
37 caps, 9 goals for NI
European Cup winner 1968
Won 2 League titles with Man Utd
Man Utd debut at 17yrs, 4mths
Effectively retired from top class football at 28
Still managed 11 seasons in the top flight
Other clubs: Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham, Hibernian, Bournemouth, Brisbane Lions
Played in NASL with LA Aztecs, Fort Lauderdale, and San Jose
 

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Hambon

Lion of the Desert
Apr 22, 2005
8,073
#4
i guess he is the only legendary football player the brits can hold on to and cherish....as for me he was never comparable to the likes of Pele,mardona,zico,Cruyff,platini...the list is endless
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#6
hambon78 said:
i guess he is the only legendary football player the brits can hold on to and cherish....as for me he was never comparable to the likes of Pele,mardona,zico,Cruyff,platini...the list is endless

The first bit is jus plain bollocks as there are many that are ever presents in lists of this ilk... the likes of moore, charlton, mathews etc...

As for your list (3 of which themselves have said that best is the finest footballer they have ever seen), obviously that is your opinion and as such unquestionable... but the inclusion of cruyff as a better player than best is laughable... a man who played with no heart, a man who best made to look a fool with every touch of the ball when holland played N.I...

A game which after continual questions asking george if he was better than cruyff... Best didnt answer the question but said with a little smile that he would nutmeg cruyff today.... A matter of moments into the game he took the ball to cruyff... slid it through his legs, then turned and took it passed him again for good measure... He continued to play with cruyff all night...

Cruyff was a great player but he wasnt in the bracket of the likes of best , zico, maradona et al
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#7
To me; Cruyff is a better player for the plain reason that anyone who squanders their talent the way Best did doesn't deserve a mention in a list of 'greatest players of all time'
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#9
Erik said:
To me; Cruyff is a better player for the plain reason that anyone who squanders their talent the way Best did doesn't deserve a mention in a list of 'greatest players of all time'
Dont see the relevance of the rest of his life... Its about his ability with a ball...

Also thats somewhat contradictory when you disclude best for those reasons, yet you choose maradona who did worse and was actually banned from the game for drug offences...
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
#10
Erik said:
To me; Cruyff is a better player for the plain reason that anyone who squanders their talent the way Best did doesn't deserve a mention in a list of 'greatest players of all time'
The scary thing was just how much he had to squander. :depressed
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#11
Shadowfax said:
Dont see the relevance of the rest of his life... Its about his ability with a ball...
To me; it's about making the most of your ability with a ball. Which Best failed to do imo

Also thats somewhat contradictory when you disclude best for those reasons, yet you choose maradona who did worse and was actually banned from the game for drug offences...
I never brought Maradona into this argument. I only compared Best to Cruyff
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#12
Erik said:
To me; it's about making the most of your ability with a ball. Which Best failed to do imo
How do you know whether he made the most of his ability on the field... Did we see the best of best... who knows... the only thing we can say is he retired from top flight football early... but we dont know whether we would have seen better from him or not...

You cant say whethre we saw the best of any footballer... we may have, we may not... we jus dont know

Did we indeed see the best of cruyff ?... Personally i dont think so... in my view he was the most dispasionate player i have ever seen... absolutely no heart and as such in my view we couldnt of seen the best of him... though that takes nothing from the great things he did show us...



I never brought Maradona into this argument. I only compared Best to Cruyff
Forget that bit... i read the wrong post... apologies
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,355
#13
Best could have been a lot better than he effectively was. Perhaps the question should be "could Best have been better than Maradona?", because he obviously wasn't.

As for Cruijff: Holland have always overrated Cruijff IMO. I don't see what's so special about him at all, except for what he did what Barcelona that is.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,355
#14
Anyway, Best is responsible for the best football quote ever and that alone must be seen as a great achievement.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,355
#15
I don't care about his death though. I can't be bothered to mourn about someone who drank himself to death. Not that I judge his way of life though, if that's what he wanted I'm not in the position to say it's wrong.
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#16
Seven said:
Best could have been a lot better than he effectively was. Perhaps the question should be "could Best have been better than Maradona?", because he obviously wasn't.
Who says he could have been better? No one knows the answer to that...

As for comparing him to maradona, thats purely opinion, lots would agree and lots would disagree... Personally i see them pretty equal, though i edge it to george as he was more complete, he could do anything, even a good defender... plus he played the game in the right spirit

And no i dont stand up for george because hes british, he actually doesnt make my top 3 of all time

As for Cruijff: Holland have always overrated Cruijff IMO. I don't see what's so special about him at all, except for what he did what Barcelona that is.
I think cruyff was a great player, up there amongst the best, my only thing with him is that he was completely souless... Not too mention his trademark cruyff turn has been improved upon and executed better by zidane for many years now... His repertoire in that area was limited to say the least...
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#17
Shadowfax said:
How do you know whether he made the most of his ability on the field... Did we see the best of best... who knows... the only thing we can say is he retired from top flight football early... but we dont know whether we would have seen better from him or not...
But the manner in which he retired just doesn't feel right to me

You cant say whethre we saw the best of any footballer... we may have, we may not... we jus dont know
I realise that and perhaps this is the perfect time to express that my sentiments in this are completely subjective and based on my own values in life. Part of how I see Best is envy, part of it is surrogate regret; all for having a talent and quitting so early, hence not trying to make the most of it. Or in other words: see how far his talent could really take him.

It's just such a bloody shame

Did we indeed see the best of cruyff ?... Personally i dont think so... in my view he was the most dispasionate player i have ever seen... absolutely no heart and as such in my view we couldnt of seen the best of him... though that takes nothing from the great things he did show us...
I never really saw that dispassionate side of Cruyff. If I had, I would've obviously felt differently about him. He goes through life with a typical Dutch coldness over him but that's as much as I've seen

Forget that bit... i read the wrong post... apologies
Aye, that's alright. I'm not exactly known for never making mistakes myself
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#18
Erik said:
But the manner in which he retired just doesn't feel right to me



I realise that and perhaps this is the perfect time to express that my sentiments in this are completely subjective and based on my own values in life. Part of how I see Best is envy, part of it is surrogate regret; all for having a talent and quitting so early, hence not trying to make the most of it. Or in other words: see how far his talent could really take him.

It's just such a bloody shame
It is a shame he retired early, but thats his choice, he wasnt forced into retirement he chose it... Everyone has that right... He wasnt here jus to entertain us... He had his own life too... Who are we to judge how he chose to live it ?

I really dont see how the fact he retired early lessens his quality as a player...

Is cantona less of a player cause he quit early ?

Is the way best went out not better than the drugs shame of maradona ?
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#19
Erik said:
all for having a talent and quitting so early, hence not trying to make the most of it. Or in other words: see how far his talent could really take him.
Maybe he felt he'd seen how far he could go... he won everything there is to win, barring of course international silverware,( but then it wasnt his fault he was born in N.I)... he had all the fame and adulation, international recognition for his talent etc etc... screwed several Miss World winners... What more could he want...
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#20
Shadowfax said:
It is a shame he retired early, but thats his choice, he wasnt forced into retirement he chose it... Everyone has that right... He wasnt here jus to entertain us... He had his own life too... Who are we to judge how he chose to live it ?

I really dont see how the fact he retired early lessens his quality as a player...

Is cantona less of a player cause he quit early ?

Is the way best went out not better than the drugs shame of maradona ?
Oh I agree with most of that, especially that Maradona's drug shame is far worse.

But what makes a great player, to me, is a combination of factors along the lines of winning mentality, never-ending thirst for glory, fighting spirit and more. Talent, to me, is merely a basic requirement that is needed like breathing is necessary for living (OK that's downgrading it a bit but I'm sure you understand).

Which is why I personally rate Edgar Davids to be a 'greater player' than Ronaldo, for example.

Which is hardly a broadly adopted way of thinking, I know...
 

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