The History Thread (16 Viewers)

[Trequartista]

Alright, RUS. Enough with the USSR bullshit. Let's move on to the next subject, which is...


The Renaissance period.

The term renaissance is increasingly being phased out, historians are now stretching continuity between the Middle Ages and the Early Modern period.

 

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[R.A.B.]

Guy loving Stalin tells truth is crap. Myth about syberia, millions died in gulags and still some calls that myth

Gulag for three pounds of rye ? do you really believe in such a crap? Of course we had prisoners of war, dissidents etc. sentenced to prison but woman for stolen rice and of course you will never tell me about Guantanamo, about prisons in Iraq and Afghan under american control and what happened there, about aircrafts turned into air prison by CIA, about the fact that prisons in USA are full with many innocent people who were sentenced there because of little dose of cannabis? right? there is a death penalty, but it's nothing you even will say that KGB were following our citizens which is truth and which is bad but NSA is good organisation of course typical western minds, double standart bull$#@!

another russian habbit. Post something about Russia -> Russian butthurt will post about west

 

[Fr3sh]

Alright, RUS. Enough with the USSR bullshit. Let's move on to the next subject, which is...


The Renaissance period.

Ah The Renaissance, the time where some of the biggest frauds of all times reclaim shit as their own. Beautiful times indeed.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Guy loving Stalin tells truth is crap. Myth about syberia, millions died in gulags and still some calls that myth




another russian habbit. Post something about Russia -> Russian butthurt will post about west

[video=dailymotion;x182igr]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x182igr_the-gulag-myth_school[/video]

There are hundred of documents about the fact that gulag camps is a myth, yet you telling me the opposite, the guys who have never been in Russia

Number of prisoners of GULAG's according to different authors:
15 million 1940-42 Mora & Zwiernag 1945
2.3 million December 1937 Timasheff 1948 Calculation of disenfranchised population
Up to 3.5 million 1941 Jasny 1951 Analysis of the output of the Soviet enterprises run by NKVD
50 million total number of persons passed through GULAG Solzhenitsyn 1975 Analysis of various indirect data, including own experience and testimonies of numerous witnesses
16 million 1938 Antonov-Ovseenko 1980 This author confused monthly average with annual figures thereby producing estimates 12 times too high.[99]
4-5 million 1939 Wheatcroft 1981 Analysis of demographic data.a
10.6 million 1941 Rosefielde 1981 Based on data of Mora & Zwiernak and annual mortality.a
5.5-9.5 million late 1938 Conquest 1991 1937 Census figures, arrest and deaths
estimates, variety of personal and literary sources.a
4-5 million every single year Volkogonov 1990s

50 millions Solzhenitsyn what a dirty pig it's even more funny that every descendant of rapists, gang members, maniacs, double agents, betrayers etc. are acting now that they were prisoners because they were not agree with soviet system not because they were criminals

 

[Raz]

The term renaissance is increasingly being phased out, historians are now stretching continuity between the Middle Ages and the Early Modern period.

What do you mean?

And what about the middle ages? IIRC you study history or something similar? What do academic people now think of middle ages, still the "dark ages" with nothing of importance happened in that period? Or people start shedding some light into those times?

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Rus, you should be studied as a seperate specimen.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

What do you mean?

And what about the middle ages? IIRC you study history or something similar? What do academic people now think of middle ages, still the "dark ages" with nothing of importance happened in that period? Or people start shedding some light into those times?

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Rus, you should be studied as a seperate specimen.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...e-u.s.-2012/persons-arrested/persons-arrested
"Nationwide, law enforcement made an estimated 12,196,959 arrests in 2012."
Gulag you say

 

[Nzoric]

Gulag for three pounds of rye ? do you really believe in such a crap? Of course we had prisoners of war, dissidents etc. sentenced to prison but woman for stolen rice and of course you will never tell me about Guantanamo, about prisons in Iraq and Afghan under american control and what happened there, about aircrafts turned into air prison by CIA, about the fact that prisons in USA are full with many innocent people who were sentenced there because of little dose of cannabis? right? there is a death penalty, but it's nothing you even will say that KGB were following our citizens which is truth and which is bad but NSA is good organisation of course typical western minds, double standart bullshit

http://unism.narod.ru/msc/gme.htm

thank mother nature he wrote everything that i wanted to say

This is the curse of the uneducated. The only way you can respond to a post about Gulag or some other Soviet bullshit (of which there was plenty) is by having a go at the American bullshit (of which there is plenty) . Idiot.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

This is the curse of the uneducated. The only way you can respond to a post about Gulag or some other Soviet bullshit (of which there was plenty) is by having a go at the American bullshit (of which there is plenty) . Idiot.

we knew it, you don't have to inroduce yourself day after day

 

[Raz]

What dies this have to do with gulags?

Your logic is what? if you prove that westerners do bad things that means soviets didn't do any of the things they are accused of?

 

[Trequartista]

What do you mean?

And what about the middle ages? IIRC you study history or something similar? What do academic people now think of middle ages, still the "dark ages" with nothing of importance happened in that period? Or people start shedding some light into those times?
.

Academics are increasingly seeing the term Renaissance as obsolete, stretching intellectual continuity between the Middle Ages and the Modern period. The whole concept of the 'Renaissance' is being phased out. The concept of the 'dark ages' is an old one, barely any respectable historian regard the Middle Ages as a dark age nowadays. Things of the utmost importance took place during that period.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

What dies this have to do with gulags?

Your logic is what? if you prove that westerners do bad things that means soviets didn't do any of the things they are accused of?

Gulags is a myth, we had normal number of prisoners you don't understand simple things, of course we had innocent people in prisons, who doesn't? which country never had innocent people in prison? but these were isolated cases

Sources of data on crime in the first decade of Soviet power are statistical surveys, data on the work of the judiciary, and other works of CSB, collections of the Ministry of Justice of the USSR and the RSFSR, including those of a private nature, of E. N. Tarnow, M . N. Gernet, AA Gertsenzon and a number of other authors.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Преступность_в_РСФСР
look at the tables, what more can i say, average 1-1.5 million of prisoners

 

[Nzoric]

Academics are increasingly seeing the term Renaissance as obsolete, stretching intellectual continuity between the Middle Ages and the Modern period. The whole concept of the 'Renaissance' is being phased out. The concept of the 'dark ages' is an old one, barely any respectable historian regard the Middle Ages as a dark age nowadays. Things of the utmost importance took place during that period.

The issue is that we hardly have any written sources from the second sack of Rome until Charlemagne.


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Gulags is a myth, we had normal number of prisoners you don't understand simple things, of course we had innocent people in prisons, who doesn't? which country never had innocent people in prison? but these were isolated cases

Sources of data on crime in the first decade of Soviet power are statistical surveys, data on the work of the judiciary, and other works of CSB, collections of the Ministry of Justice of the USSR and the RSFSR, including those of a private nature, of E. N. Tarnow, M . N. Gernet, AA Gertsenzon and a number of other authors.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Преступность_в_РСФСР
look at the tables, what more can i say, average 1-1.5 million of prisoners

My god


Btw, @Trequartista

Have you read "Historia Arcana" by Procopius? I had a semester about emperor Justinian and reading this nearly made me piss myself from laughter . Must be the most badass source we have as Historians - Wars which is relatively objective, Buildings of Justinian which was an ordered work from the emperor himself and then Secret History which he wrote for himself, completely taking the piss out of the ruling couple

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

The issue is that we hardly have any written sources from the second sack of Rome until Charlemagne.

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My god

yep, they brainwashed you with western look on USSR and Stalin for many years, it's almost impossible to kick this trash from your heads, instead of listening to me, my arguments, information that i giving you, all of you act only in anti-soviet way which is very stupid cause you should learn about both sides of story before you can make any statements but you just don't care cause you don't want to change ur mind

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Gulags is a myth, we had normal number of prisoners you don't understand simple things, of course we had innocent people in prisons, who doesn't? which country never had innocent people in prison? but these were isolated cases

Sources of data on crime in the first decade of Soviet power are statistical surveys, data on the work of the judiciary, and other works of CSB, collections of the Ministry of Justice of the USSR and the RSFSR, including those of a private nature, of E. N. Tarnow, M . N. Gernet, AA Gertsenzon and a number of other authors.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Преступность_в_РСФСР
look at the tables, what more can i say, average 1-1.5 million of prisoners

Are there people who talk good about communists in Russia other than you? I don't even ask about other countries as answer is obivous. Though communists were like %0,0something of total population of Türkiye, they have their share of murder, robbery and violence of many kinds which they call revolutionist violence and it is justified because ''you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs''.

Also, the guy in your avatar openly asked for control of bosphorus and some cities of eastern of the country which made Turkiye to join nato. Such a strategic genius he was.

 

[Nzoric]

yep, they brainwashed you with western look on USSR and Stalin for many years, it's almost impossible to kick this trash from your heads, instead of listening to me, my arguments, information that i giving you, all of you act only in anti-soviet way which is very stupid cause you should learn about both sides of story before you can make any statements but you just don't care cause you don't want to change ur mind

I'm not anti Soviet by any imaginable stretch. I'm just not a blithering idiot.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Are there people who talk good about communists in Russia other than you? I don't even ask about other countries as answer is obivous. Though communists were like %0,0something of total population of Türkiye, they have their share of murder, robbery and violence of many kinds which they call revolutionist violence and it is justified because ''you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs''.

Also, the guy in your avatar openly asked for control of bosphorus and some cities of eastern of the country which made Turkiye to join nato. Such a strategic genius he was.

“The main purpose for establishing NATO was to counter the threat of USSR / Communist expansion after World War II,” said Dr. Dilshod Achilov of the Department of Political Science, International Affairs And Public Administration East Tennessee State University. “The roots of accepting non-North Atlantic nations into NATO, mainly Greece and Turkey to begin with, lies at the heart of the Truman Doctrine -- extending military and economic aid to states vulnerable to Soviet threat / expansion.”

So this professor is wrong too?

Plus look at the communists of China - after all they have best economy in the world nowadays

 

[Nzoric]

“The main purpose for establishing NATO was to counter the threat of USSR / Communist expansion after World War II,” said Dr. Dilshod Achilov of the Department of Political Science, International Affairs And Public Administration East Tennessee State University. “The roots of accepting non-North Atlantic nations into NATO, mainly Greece and Turkey to begin with, lies at the heart of the Truman Doctrine -- extending military and economic aid to states vulnerable to Soviet threat / expansion.”

the US could do whatever they wanted until MAD was achieved. Which is why Stalin looked like a little girl during the blockade of Berlin.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I'm not anti Soviet by any imaginable stretch. I'm just not a blithering idiot.

i doubt it

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the US could do whatever they wanted until MAD was achieved. Which is why Stalin looked like a little girl during the blockade of Berlin.

Never

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

“The main purpose for establishing NATO was to counter the threat of USSR / Communist expansion after World War II,” said Dr. Dilshod Achilov of the Department of Political Science, International Affairs And Public Administration East Tennessee State University. “The roots of accepting non-North Atlantic nations into NATO, mainly Greece and Turkey to begin with, lies at the heart of the Truman Doctrine -- extending military and economic aid to states vulnerable to Soviet threat / expansion.”

So this professor is wrong too?

and if he wasn't a strategic genius and gave an ultimatum like ''accept or we'll attack'' to a neutral country of that time, this wouldn't happen. He forced Turkiye to join nato.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

and if he wasn't a strategic genius and gave an ultimatum like ''accept or we'll attack'' to a neutral country of that time, this wouldn't happen. He forced Turkiye to join nato.

Nope, the communists of Greece tried to become leaders there and soviet gorvernment said that they will support them, then Truman learned about it and asked congress to "help" to greece government, so US congress agreed to send $400 million in military and economic aid to support the government of Greece, and after it Greece and Turkey became members of NATO, it was signal from Truman that if communits will try to do revolution there then 3rd world war could begin, but of course nobody wanted it from the both sides of the world, get your facts straight before you talk