[Serie A] nipples soccer 2-0 JUVENTUS (March 30th 2014) (6 Viewers)

DUKAC

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
11,943
Thats BS, but because i honestly dont know if you really believe what you are saying, i will explain why:
-Yes Pogba is of great value, BUT Marotta has systematically failed to make decent profit of the players he is trying to sell.
And its a very well known market rule, that usually the finishers are the most expensive players. If Napoli, heck even Udine had to sell a player like Pogba, yes, they would make a ns profit out of him, but NOT Marotta.
He just cant, he overpays and sell for peanuts...
It is only an assumption that MArotta could make a decent profit out of Pogba, whilst its a fact that Napoli already made great profit from Cavani and Lavezzi
-We were trying to sign a young prolific finisher like Higuain, ever since MArotta has joined us, we did not preferred Tevez, we have signed Tevez because Galata beaten to Drogba and Napoli to Higuain...
each and every year since he joined us, we have been trying and failing and always getting a cheaper alternative, despite the fact that we have bigger earnings, as the Napoli coach and president are pointing out.
MArotta would rather share tha cash to more mediocre players, rather than buy top ones.
-15mil is still too much for a young and unproven defender that has not and may not reached his estimated potential. 15mil is quite a huge ammount for defenders and Bonucci and Ogbonna have never done and proboably never will do enough to justify it. The only reasons we have spent so much, was because of MArotta's extremely poor negotiating skills and our nationalistic criteria.
The more money we lose because of that, the less it becomes available for other crucial transfers.
-The fact that we wont pay 20mil for Osvaldo is only an assumption, his transfer clause that we have signed says 19mil.
-And Higuain, Inler and Hamsik has chosen, still it doesnt matter, on theory we woulld and should be a much more attractive destination for top players, as we can offer more title promises, better salaries etc
its a disgrace to for us to be beaten by teams like Napoli and Galata...
-Apart from some good transfers we have completed, we have also been spending big cash right and left on players we shouldnt.
No other serie A club would have spent so much cash on players like MArtinez and Matri like we did and shows when we cant find anyone to sell them, not even remotely close to the ammount we have given for them.
No other club is spending huge for mediocre players, that are so limited, that are bound to be replaced soon and as a result lose almost the full ammount of investement in the process.
And on the top of that, we are the club that made out of the return of Giovinco, (a player we owned 100%) the biggest transfer made in that transfer window.

We lose money, when we sell because, we sell off.
We lose money when we buy, because we overpay (most of the times at least)
And we also lose money when we loan out some of the most talented players in the Italian pensinsula.

On the other hand Napoli are efficient, they took their limited chances and budget and are closing the gap between us, using our managerial deficiency against us.
We should take some lessons from them, instead of keep being that arrogant!
Do you know how much Napoli payed for Higuain? Something betveen 35-38 mil!!!!!!! Do you also know that Higuain is the first Real player from whom Real profit????? Do you know that we offer something between 22-25 mil.which is a very reasonable price for Higuain.Real smells that they can get 35 mil for him and they did.We bought Tevez for 10.5 and up to now he is way better than Gonzalo.Whats wrong with that move.And from which player we should cash before this season????? Iaquinta,Amauri,Melo????And particular that Napoli raised our bid for Ogbonna for at least 2-2.5 mil because they wanted him badly.So our transfer policy is very okay.
 

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Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,358
True



I dont want to sound offensive now, and i'm sure this is the language barrier, but usually when people say stuff like that, they arent very intelligent, OR/and they dont really know anything about stamina, recovery etc


Most guys i know that lift seriously for a few years now, who arent neccecarely intelligent, understand this concept much better cause they experience it.


I'll explain the two examples, to give you a good idea.

A powerlifter trains relatively low reps, of pretty high weights, for quite some volume, or SERIOUSLY high weights for a bit less volume. It puts a huge strain on muscles, tendons joints. The body has to deal with acidity, tissue recovery glycogene replenishment, hormonal boosts, etc.

There are however many factors. Some days you didnt sleep wel, or eat well, or had less hormonal production meaning less recovery. perhaps you are switching things around, are close to a deload or are doing controlled overtraining.

Cause of this some days you come at the weights, and just feel jaded. or you busted your hip and squats are not going as they should etc. Recovery is a big deal.


For football players, a simular story occurs. Many people think its just a long sprint and jog, but its so much more.
Remember when you were in university and had 4 weeks of exams, think how you felt at the end. That gives an idea what "feeling jaded" is about. Its something that also happens to creative players when they are getting overplayed. Dont forget, they must load themselves up to give everything , each time.

Then, there is like the above example, muscular recovery. During the game, a player can take a big amount of knocks. And we are juventus, everyone hates us and everyone plays 200% versus us. We receive so much crushing tackles. this gives muscular trauma, just like a powerlifter feels when he is dropping below 3rep range. Recovering from muscular trauma is nice when you have a weeks time. But when there are 3 games every 7 days, that doesnt happen.
ANd because of this trauma, the muscle as a whole doesnt recover nearly as good. That is what we are currently seeing.
Ever wonder why vidal has these games where he "runs less" and "less often" ? Well, thats basically what happened.
Each and every player has different resistance against this. Tevez for example, is one of those carved out of a granite stone, that can keep getting knocks, and allways be recovered for the next game.
...

He doesnt lift. Nor does he take part in a competitive sport.
So he has no clue about recovery, trauma and the impact on the muscle

so he should keep his peasant face shut

The irony.
 

frick

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2010
4,931
Buffon: 3677 minutes----------Reina: 3282 minutes
Caceres: 1990 minutes--------Ghoulam: 2826 minutes
Bonucci: 3257 minutes--------Albiol: 3874 minutes
Chiellini: 3047 minutes--------Fernandez: 2978 minutes
Licht: 2103 minutes----------Henrique: 693 minutes
Vidal: 3674 minutes----------Jorginho: 2635 minutes
Pirlo: 2993 minutes-----------Inler: 3375 minutes
Pogba: 3618 minutes---------Insigne: 2716 minutes
Asamoah: 3006 minutes-------Hamsik: 2624 minutes
Llorente: 2640 minutes--------Callejon: 3478 minutes
Marchisio: 2394 minutes-------Higuain: 3379 minutes
Isla: 1559 minutes -----------Pandev: 1730 minutes
Vucinic: 597 minutes----------Mertens: 2417 minutes

why the fuck does our team look so tired when our players haven't played way more minutes than Napoli have? They have played the same amount of CL matches... the same amount of serie a matches and are in the final of the Coppa italia...

- - - Updated - - -

PS: Osvaldo had 9 touches in 70 minutes.... seriously? what the actual fuck?
A bit oversimplification don't you think? The total minutes played only tell half of the story. Take the midfielders from both teams with highest minutes played, for example. Vidal played 3 full previous matches while Inler only played 2 (moreover he had a week rest). And we played with same starting lineup except for Tevez while Napoli had four of their players rested (subs are ignored) in the previous match.
 

DUKAC

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
11,943
Its actually a very accurate comparasion.Does not matter that Vidal plays last three matches and Inler not.In the calculation it shows who played what time,so one game in a row more-less is not important,especcially not to have excuses that we are tired so thats why we play last two months bad.
 

ravipiero

Junior Member
Mar 2, 2014
133
Thats BS, but because i honestly dont know if you really believe what you are saying, i will explain why:
-Yes Pogba is of great value, BUT Marotta has systematically failed to make decent profit of the players he is trying to sell.
And its a very well known market rule, that usually the finishers are the most expensive players. If Napoli, heck even Udine had to sell a player like Pogba, yes, they would make a ns profit out of him, but NOT Marotta.
He just cant, he overpays and sell for peanuts...
It is only an assumption that MArotta could make a decent profit out of Pogba, whilst its a fact that Napoli already made great profit from Cavani and Lavezzi
-We were trying to sign a young prolific finisher like Higuain, ever since MArotta has joined us, we did not preferred Tevez, we have signed Tevez because Galata beaten to Drogba and Napoli to Higuain...
each and every year since he joined us, we have been trying and failing and always getting a cheaper alternative, despite the fact that we have bigger earnings, as the Napoli coach and president are pointing out.
MArotta would rather share tha cash to more mediocre players, rather than buy top ones.
-15mil is still too much for a young and unproven defender that has not and may not reached his estimated potential. 15mil is quite a huge ammount for defenders and Bonucci and Ogbonna have never done and proboably never will do enough to justify it. The only reasons we have spent so much, was because of MArotta's extremely poor negotiating skills and our nationalistic criteria.
The more money we lose because of that, the less it becomes available for other crucial transfers.
-The fact that we wont pay 20mil for Osvaldo is only an assumption, his transfer clause that we have signed says 19mil.
-And Higuain, Inler and Hamsik has chosen, still it doesnt matter, on theory we woulld and should be a much more attractive destination for top players, as we can offer more title promises, better salaries etc
its a disgrace to for us to be beaten by teams like Napoli and Galata...
-Apart from some good transfers we have completed, we have also been spending big cash right and left on players we shouldnt.
No other serie A club would have spent so much cash on players like MArtinez and Matri like we did and shows when we cant find anyone to sell them, not even remotely close to the ammount we have given for them.
No other club is spending huge for mediocre players, that are so limited, that are bound to be replaced soon and as a result lose almost the full ammount of investement in the process.
And on the top of that, we are the club that made out of the return of Giovinco, (a player we owned 100%) the biggest transfer made in that transfer window.

We lose money, when we sell because, we sell off.
We lose money when we buy, because we overpay (most of the times at least)
And we also lose money when we loan out some of the most talented players in the Italian pensinsula.

On the other hand Napoli are efficient, they took their limited chances and budget and are closing the gap between us, using our managerial deficiency against us.
We should take some lessons from them, instead of keep being that arrogant!
You are forgetting pirlo, pogba, llorente, barzagli, and tevez which all were a good deal. Sure there are some bad judgments but that applies to every team, not just us.

Our recent performance showed that we lack of motivation. We've won the scudetto twice and its not as appealing as roma's condition now where they want it really bad.

7 games left, 4 in home. We need to maximize points from home games and at least snatch a draw from 3 away games to win the tittle. And that with the assumption roma win all of their remaining games, which I doubt.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
It was pointless even having forwards last night. I'm actually getting sick & tired of watching our slow approach to games.
Same :agree:

Buffon: 3677 minutes----------Reina: 3282 minutes
Caceres: 1990 minutes--------Ghoulam: 2826 minutes
Bonucci: 3257 minutes--------Albiol: 3874 minutes
Chiellini: 3047 minutes--------Fernandez: 2978 minutes
Licht: 2103 minutes----------Henrique: 693 minutes
Vidal: 3674 minutes----------Jorginho: 2635 minutes
Pirlo: 2993 minutes-----------Inler: 3375 minutes
Pogba: 3618 minutes---------Insigne: 2716 minutes
Asamoah: 3006 minutes-------Hamsik: 2624 minutes
Llorente: 2640 minutes--------Callejon: 3478 minutes
Marchisio: 2394 minutes-------Higuain: 3379 minutes
Isla: 1559 minutes -----------Pandev: 1730 minutes
Vucinic: 597 minutes----------Mertens: 2417 minutes

why the $#@! does our team look so tired when our players haven't played way more minutes than Napoli have? They have played the same amount of CL matches... the same amount of serie a matches and are in the final of the Coppa italia...

- - - Updated - - -

PS: Osvaldo had 9 touches in 70 minutes.... seriously? what the actual $#@!?
Benitez rotated way more throughout the season. Mainly in the midfield and wingers area. It cost them a lot in Serie A but imo their formation allows rotation in an easier way than ours. Their formation has a much different share of duties and I'd say it's more balanced. For Juve it's enough to have one of Tevez Vidal or Pogba out and there's so big drop in quality because these are the players that do the most in this formation. Attacking, defending and also a lot of running. In 433 Marchisio was good enough, in 352 he's suddenly not good enough because he's not that good going forward which is very important in 352. In our 352 B2Bs are responsible for attacking along with SS. It's also about many players like Ogbonna, Caceres, Peluso and even Giovinco.

That's one of many other reasons I'd like 352 to go. It's formation that requires a lot of running from the whole team (even CBs). I also don't buy the tiredness argument because in EPL they play way more matches and don't have winter break and they don't crawl on the pitch as well, but notice teams like Napoli, or some others can control the game in a much better way. They're able to keep possession for a long periods of time, don't fall back very deep and aren't forced to run so much (which is the case for Juve even against small teams like Catania, or 10 man Parma at home).
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
You are forgetting pirlo, pogba, llorente, barzagli, and tevez which all were a good deal. Sure there are some bad judgments but that applies to every team, not just us.

Our recent performance showed that we lack of motivation. We've won the scudetto twice and its not as appealing as roma's condition now where they want it really bad.

7 games left, 4 in home. We need to maximize points from home games and at least snatch a draw from 3 away games to win the tittle. And that with the assumption roma win all of their remaining games, which I doubt.
I am not forgetting, i meant them when i said that he also had some good moments, but when we speak about efficiency, we must refer to the overall ratio.
Marottta has wasted for too much cash on failures and lost a lot of money by failing to sell and the co own/loan deals.
We are bleeding cash, whilst they are taking their chances.
This is what allows them to close the gap, despite the fact that they have less income.

I dont think that the discussion goes around just one performance, ever since we were in serie B, Napoli have had inferior revenue and ability to buy players, so its norml for us to have beter performance than them.
The fact that they managed to beat us in serie B, with serie B players, whilst we still had some world champions and they can keep up with our growth, rape us in the cup last year and in this game yesterday, is not the final criteria.
It just means that they have found an efficient way to have similar performances, with much inferior financial resources.

And thats our fault and ours alone. We allowed this by not making an optimal use of resources, as they did.
Lucky us Conte has helped overperfom, but our managerial decision are far more optimal.
While Napoli has done a fanatastic job on that department!

We still have the upperhand, but if we keep bleeding cash and they keep grow at optimal rates, time will come that they will be able to compete with us for real and only because we let it happen...
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,722
We are playing maybe our worst footie in the Conte era, and thats alarming. We have maintained this level of underperforming for months now. And like JCK said...we can get out with a win against Catanias and Genoas...but in no way against napoli or higher quality opposition.

If we dont sign quality in the mercato, and Conte keeps the same plan for the next season... ill fear for the worst, and that would be roma and napoli smelling blood and taking the scudetto from us.
 

DUKAC

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
11,943
I dont understand that part how does Napoli does a fantastic job in the transfer department.By spending nearly 100 milion euro and are behind us 17 points!!!!! Thats a great job?Then I would rather have a bad job done like Marotta did.Yes they beat us in Coppa but also we beat them is Supercoppa .And at the end of the day,Yes we were ultra bad yesterday they play better but nevertheless how much money they spend THEY WILL NEVER BE OUR REAL RIVALS AND WILL STAY A SMALLTOWN CLUB LIKE THEY ARE.PERIOD.
 

Badass J Elkann

It's time to go!!
Feb 12, 2006
65,858
Funny thing napoli is everything some of the members here want to see at Juve. Such as extravagent spending, a manager who has european pedigree and one that rotates his team. Look at the results!
 

Pirlo's Beard

Junkie Joe Joyce
Oct 2, 2013
11,220
We can't go on another season limping through 80% of our games. A real change in mentality is needed otherwise even more teams will know how to exploit us.

I am amazed that some managers in Serie A set their teams up to put absolutely no pressure on our back 3 and sit in their own 3rd. That tactic fails against us and these veterans don't see it. Even teams like Gala with freaking Mankini figured it out



I miss the old Juve that dominated inferior opposition. Not sitting back on a 1 goal lead against fodder.

Either that, or overhaul our attack to enable us to counter attack efficiently instead of the current cycle of sitting back and trying to hit on the break with the slowest attack in history.
 

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