Serie A: Juventus vs Fiorentina [March 2 , 2008] (3 Viewers)
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Like I said in my match report this game is a consequence of playing midweek and I think it is blatantly obvious that if this team qualifies for Cl next season and does not buy big as in a lot of changes, then they would be fighting relegating next season.
There is not a chance that this side can cope with Cl and serieA simultaneously.
I may have been very generous to Grygera as dule pointed out as he was indeed awful.
Camoranesi was suffering as it was even clear in the 1st half but I too was astonished that Nocerino was the choice to bring on.
It seems the manager and board are still unhappy that Tiago did not go to Spurs.
Nocerino, sissoko and Zanetti is overkill against Fiorentina's midfield. Its not like we were facing Zidane, kaka and Ronaldo.
Everyone does the medicine after death thing. If I was the manager i would have taken off Dp too as he was ineffective and had played 90 minutes for far too many games than someone of his age can afford.
He has been giving more than he can and Trez had not played in 2 matches so should be fitter and out of both of them who is the likelier to score a goal?
For this game Ranieri was poor as his decision to protect a lead with so many minutes to go is something I really hate.
I finally saw what people have been moaning about Molinaro as that 1st half was embarassing for a professional footballer.
Why do we keep insisting on playing offside and when decisions do not go or way we start to moan and write letters to figc complaning about calciopoli?
If a team feels victimised then stop giving people ammunition to use against ya. Playing offside is far too risky at the best of times.
There is no leadership at all in defence as the comical 3rd goal proved with too much after you Claude. Players waiting for the other to take responsibility.
Zebina, Grygera, Molinaro, salihhamidic, Nocerino, Palladino, Zanetti, Birindelli etc are not champions league material. It may be harsh but its true as some of them may cope with some of the lesser lights in Cl but up against fast aggressive Epl teams and the likes of Barcelona and Real madrid they would be found wanting.
I don't care who we lose next season but 1 that is irreplaceable is definitely Gigi Buffon as without him, I hate to think where we would be. Can you imagine if we had Doni or Victor valdes in goal?
There is not a chance that this side can cope with Cl and serieA simultaneously.
I may have been very generous to Grygera as dule pointed out as he was indeed awful.
Camoranesi was suffering as it was even clear in the 1st half but I too was astonished that Nocerino was the choice to bring on.
It seems the manager and board are still unhappy that Tiago did not go to Spurs.
Nocerino, sissoko and Zanetti is overkill against Fiorentina's midfield. Its not like we were facing Zidane, kaka and Ronaldo.
Everyone does the medicine after death thing. If I was the manager i would have taken off Dp too as he was ineffective and had played 90 minutes for far too many games than someone of his age can afford.
He has been giving more than he can and Trez had not played in 2 matches so should be fitter and out of both of them who is the likelier to score a goal?
For this game Ranieri was poor as his decision to protect a lead with so many minutes to go is something I really hate.
I finally saw what people have been moaning about Molinaro as that 1st half was embarassing for a professional footballer.
Why do we keep insisting on playing offside and when decisions do not go or way we start to moan and write letters to figc complaning about calciopoli?
If a team feels victimised then stop giving people ammunition to use against ya. Playing offside is far too risky at the best of times.
There is no leadership at all in defence as the comical 3rd goal proved with too much after you Claude. Players waiting for the other to take responsibility.
Zebina, Grygera, Molinaro, salihhamidic, Nocerino, Palladino, Zanetti, Birindelli etc are not champions league material. It may be harsh but its true as some of them may cope with some of the lesser lights in Cl but up against fast aggressive Epl teams and the likes of Barcelona and Real madrid they would be found wanting.
I don't care who we lose next season but 1 that is irreplaceable is definitely Gigi Buffon as without him, I hate to think where we would be. Can you imagine if we had Doni or Victor valdes in goal?
the funny thing is we still have some members who are defending this Ranieri idiot, and say everything is fine, every team in serie can have times like this. 
That performance was dreadful throughout. The defence was disorganised all day and gifted all 3 goals to Fiorentina. It wasn't just Zebina either with the 2 centre-backs looking uncomfortable throughout, as well as Molinaro whose defending I've questioned before.
Nedved was missed . Palladino is a good player, but he can't do Nedved's role and was largely ineffective. Sissoko did well to score and shows some surprisingly good feet at times but there's no sign of his passing improving. Every pass he hit that travelled over 10 yards was given away. Even Zanetti was poor today with Camoranesi the only spark, but he could be injured again. The crapness of the midfield completely nullified the threat of Del Piero and Trezeguet who repeatedly were given balls that just do not suit their style of play. If Ranieri wanted aimless balls in behind for the strikers to run onto why didn't he start Iaquinta?
A lot of reinforcements are needed if we're to be strong next season because whether we like it or not that side isn't going to win any titles. We cannot rely on Del Piero and Camoranesi forever with their age and in Camoranesi's case injury proneness.
On the positive the goals were very good though.
Nedved was missed . Palladino is a good player, but he can't do Nedved's role and was largely ineffective. Sissoko did well to score and shows some surprisingly good feet at times but there's no sign of his passing improving. Every pass he hit that travelled over 10 yards was given away. Even Zanetti was poor today with Camoranesi the only spark, but he could be injured again. The crapness of the midfield completely nullified the threat of Del Piero and Trezeguet who repeatedly were given balls that just do not suit their style of play. If Ranieri wanted aimless balls in behind for the strikers to run onto why didn't he start Iaquinta?
A lot of reinforcements are needed if we're to be strong next season because whether we like it or not that side isn't going to win any titles. We cannot rely on Del Piero and Camoranesi forever with their age and in Camoranesi's case injury proneness.
On the positive the goals were very good though.
But that is my point, Fiorentina can cope with playing midweek or more to the point their key players can.
We and Milan cannot do so for different reasons. Our key players are old and cannot cope with the pressures of playing midweek and weekend in pressure situations and the younger ones are not good enough.
Well you did make a good call a while back when you said Grygera was average as I had only seen him play for Czech team, I thought he was decent but he is not.
Well not at centreback at least.
I also read somewhere that you are Dutch if so what do you make of Urby Emanuelson as I am surprised he is still at Ajax as he looks like a decent left back or is there a problem with him.
I dont get the Dutch league anymore. Are the big teams like Psv and Ajax getting worse or are the other teams getting better as there have been lots of strange results this season.
Back to us I know this might sound strange but unless the board has a plan and that includes purchasing genuine class, it might not be a bad idea not to qualify for Cl.
As I have seen to many teams not equipped to play cl and seriea like chievo, lazio and loads of Spanish sides struggling to cope because this present side cannot do that at all.
I may be wrong but I don't think side has won matches in both midweek and weekend back to back and thats playing against sides that are not even top class
What happens if we have to meet Roma on a saturday, real madrid on tuesday and milan on sunday with this side?
The scariest thing is that they are not underperforming as with that there is a little hope, they just cannot give more than what they have in their repertoir
We and Milan cannot do so for different reasons. Our key players are old and cannot cope with the pressures of playing midweek and weekend in pressure situations and the younger ones are not good enough.
Well you did make a good call a while back when you said Grygera was average as I had only seen him play for Czech team, I thought he was decent but he is not.
Well not at centreback at least.
I also read somewhere that you are Dutch if so what do you make of Urby Emanuelson as I am surprised he is still at Ajax as he looks like a decent left back or is there a problem with him.
I dont get the Dutch league anymore. Are the big teams like Psv and Ajax getting worse or are the other teams getting better as there have been lots of strange results this season.
Back to us I know this might sound strange but unless the board has a plan and that includes purchasing genuine class, it might not be a bad idea not to qualify for Cl.
As I have seen to many teams not equipped to play cl and seriea like chievo, lazio and loads of Spanish sides struggling to cope because this present side cannot do that at all.
I may be wrong but I don't think side has won matches in both midweek and weekend back to back and thats playing against sides that are not even top class
What happens if we have to meet Roma on a saturday, real madrid on tuesday and milan on sunday with this side?
The scariest thing is that they are not underperforming as with that there is a little hope, they just cannot give more than what they have in their repertoir
I agree with most of what you said apart from 2 points.
Firstly Sissoko passing was good and he rarely gave the ball away infact at 1 time he was showboating and the fans were loving it.
He was far and away our most productive player and was better than Camoranesi.
Besides he is not there to give 20 yard passes, he is there to provide enrgy and spark and he accomplished that.
It always amazes me to read on here that some people want us to spend £18m on Mascherano whose only quality is to be negative and spoil the opponent's game as he cannot pass the ball for shit.
The other point is Palladino, why do people keep saying he is good. Good in what sense? His crosses are hit and miss, he does not go past players and the alibi is that he is playing in a position alien to him.
As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on whether he is good or not and for him to show he is as good as Trez and Dp he has to show far more that he does.
It is not as if he is 18 or 19, look at all the youngsters making their mark all over the world at far younger ages and most of them play where their managers want them to play and not their preferred positions and they make far better impressions.
Firstly Sissoko passing was good and he rarely gave the ball away infact at 1 time he was showboating and the fans were loving it.
He was far and away our most productive player and was better than Camoranesi.
Besides he is not there to give 20 yard passes, he is there to provide enrgy and spark and he accomplished that.
It always amazes me to read on here that some people want us to spend £18m on Mascherano whose only quality is to be negative and spoil the opponent's game as he cannot pass the ball for shit.
The other point is Palladino, why do people keep saying he is good. Good in what sense? His crosses are hit and miss, he does not go past players and the alibi is that he is playing in a position alien to him.
As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on whether he is good or not and for him to show he is as good as Trez and Dp he has to show far more that he does.
It is not as if he is 18 or 19, look at all the youngsters making their mark all over the world at far younger ages and most of them play where their managers want them to play and not their preferred positions and they make far better impressions.
That is a scary prospect.
Sometimes i just want the board to tear up the plan they have and start fresh because until now they have made one good decision(other then the logical ones) and thats to buy Iaquinta.
PS we did win midweek and weekend in the beginning of the season against reggina and torino.But it doesn't mean anything because just had a full squad and a lot of fresh legs and minds.
Sometimes i just want the board to tear up the plan they have and start fresh because until now they have made one good decision(other then the logical ones) and thats to buy Iaquinta.
PS we did win midweek and weekend in the beginning of the season against reggina and torino.But it doesn't mean anything because just had a full squad and a lot of fresh legs and minds.
and this is not the first time happened, we did this before, we lost the lead many times and ended with a draw, or luck was on our side and we could survive the score. Well, you saw, Buffon can't bear this anymore, I never seen him going mad like this before..
I agree with almost everything you say and specially the red part, it sums it all..
Stop discussing football!
I agree with almost everything you say and specially the red part, it sums it all..
Stop discussing football!
I concede that Fiorentina's squad is more balanced, but they too were missing key players and their squad isn't that deep either. It might've contributed to our loss, but I would say the midweek game was only a factor in our defeat not the main reason.
Yeah, Grygera had the same problems as centreback for Ajax. He isn't much better as rightback frankly. He simply looks less exposed on the flank, as he isn't an adventurous fullback.
Yes, I am Dutch. Emanuelson has talent, but he's been having a terrible season. When he broke through into the ajax team about 2 seasons ago, he had big shoes to fill (Maxwell's shoes) and he positively surprised many, with his offensive runs and his flair. His talents lay solely in his offensive game though, Emanuelson's blunders will make you long to see him be replaced by Molinaro in the poorest form. This season, especially in the first half, Emanuelson cost his team many goals with his poor defensive play and it started to effect his offensive game too. Even his offensive game is mediocre this season. He needs to step it up, I think he'll be at ajax next season as well.
I'd say Ajax and PSV are getting worse mainly. As an indication you only need to look at how every season in Europe gets worse than the last one for the Dutch teams. PSV did well in Europe a couple of season back, but Hiddink is just something else. Ajax have just been very poor for many years now, living under a lot of mismanagement. The once praised youth-system of ajax is nothing but a mythe nowadays. Their entire board is being cleared out as we speak.
By the way you adressed a big problem of the Dutch league yourself with the following sentence
"so what do you make of Urby Emanuelson as I am surprised he is still at Ajax as he looks like a decent left back or is there a problem with him."
The Dutch league simply doesn't have the (financial) power to keep any decent talent. PSV stars leaving their team to play midtable football in England. Sigh..
Thats is a good point. If we do not qualify for the CL, a plan is just as important though. We need to start building a side that IS able to handle both fronts, and in that respect this has been a lost season. We did not adress this issue at all. Instead of building for the future, we are clinging on to a few stars in their final days.
Yeah, Grygera had the same problems as centreback for Ajax. He isn't much better as rightback frankly. He simply looks less exposed on the flank, as he isn't an adventurous fullback.
Yes, I am Dutch. Emanuelson has talent, but he's been having a terrible season. When he broke through into the ajax team about 2 seasons ago, he had big shoes to fill (Maxwell's shoes) and he positively surprised many, with his offensive runs and his flair. His talents lay solely in his offensive game though, Emanuelson's blunders will make you long to see him be replaced by Molinaro in the poorest form. This season, especially in the first half, Emanuelson cost his team many goals with his poor defensive play and it started to effect his offensive game too. Even his offensive game is mediocre this season. He needs to step it up, I think he'll be at ajax next season as well.
I'd say Ajax and PSV are getting worse mainly. As an indication you only need to look at how every season in Europe gets worse than the last one for the Dutch teams. PSV did well in Europe a couple of season back, but Hiddink is just something else. Ajax have just been very poor for many years now, living under a lot of mismanagement. The once praised youth-system of ajax is nothing but a mythe nowadays. Their entire board is being cleared out as we speak.
By the way you adressed a big problem of the Dutch league yourself with the following sentence
"so what do you make of Urby Emanuelson as I am surprised he is still at Ajax as he looks like a decent left back or is there a problem with him."
The Dutch league simply doesn't have the (financial) power to keep any decent talent. PSV stars leaving their team to play midtable football in England. Sigh..
Thats is a good point. If we do not qualify for the CL, a plan is just as important though. We need to start building a side that IS able to handle both fronts, and in that respect this has been a lost season. We did not adress this issue at all. Instead of building for the future, we are clinging on to a few stars in their final days.
True thing, that, because if there was a positive aspect of calciopoli and Moggi leaving especially it was that i thought youth would be given more of a chance but sadly that has not happened as we got the wrong manager in the first place and players that are not of youthful variety.
Like you rightly said theya re not building for the future, do not seem to have a project and seem to be wanting to go for the championship too soon which is not realistic at all.
I had to chuckle when i saw Moggi saying he would have got C. Ronaldo if not that Salas did not go in the other direction. Okay good 1 Moggi. We are talking about Roanldo that cost Man United £18m in 2003 the same season Salas left and we got Oliveira. Does he really want me to believe that he would have spent close to £15m on a prospect like Ronaldo when he never did that ever?
Gionvinco gets good press here but then again so did Nocerino in the beginning so its hard to say if he would make the garde here.
What exactly is our youth team about if noone seems to step uf form there. There was a player, ithink his name is benjamin onwuachi or something that was meant to be big but he just disappeared off the radar.
A lot of these guys want mourinho and Lippi but there is not a chance they would come where with this present squad.
Though I love these 2 guys there is no way they would join a club that is not a competitive squad wise in the domestic league.
Hmmm I did not know that about Emmanuelson and it seems Left backs are becoming like right backs as they are very few good ones.
Incredibly Barcelona have 3 excellent ones at their disposal
Like you rightly said theya re not building for the future, do not seem to have a project and seem to be wanting to go for the championship too soon which is not realistic at all.
I had to chuckle when i saw Moggi saying he would have got C. Ronaldo if not that Salas did not go in the other direction. Okay good 1 Moggi. We are talking about Roanldo that cost Man United £18m in 2003 the same season Salas left and we got Oliveira. Does he really want me to believe that he would have spent close to £15m on a prospect like Ronaldo when he never did that ever?
Gionvinco gets good press here but then again so did Nocerino in the beginning so its hard to say if he would make the garde here.
What exactly is our youth team about if noone seems to step uf form there. There was a player, ithink his name is benjamin onwuachi or something that was meant to be big but he just disappeared off the radar.
A lot of these guys want mourinho and Lippi but there is not a chance they would come where with this present squad.
Though I love these 2 guys there is no way they would join a club that is not a competitive squad wise in the domestic league.
Hmmm I did not know that about Emmanuelson and it seems Left backs are becoming like right backs as they are very few good ones.
Incredibly Barcelona have 3 excellent ones at their disposal
Surely you jest.
We are not superior to Roma or Fiorentina in terms of breadth of the squad. They have a varierty of players that we can just dream about.
I think like a lot of people you look at Dp, Buffon, Camoranesi, Nedved and Trez and think this is a great squad because it is not.
I would rather have the problem of tweaking with Roma's and Fiorentina's squad where you just need 1 or 2 world class players for them to be very good unlike ours where I dont even know where to start.
Dp and Trez are not getting younger, Nedved should be gone by next season, Camoranesi cannot play too many matches any more.
Don't have a decent right back or left back, no creativity and if someone tempts Buffon away we are royally screwed.
I am still unsure as to what Mellberg would bring to this team as he is not what we need and coming to seriea for the 1st time aged 30 and over is not the way to go especially when you are coming from Villa
We are not superior to Roma or Fiorentina in terms of breadth of the squad. They have a varierty of players that we can just dream about.
I think like a lot of people you look at Dp, Buffon, Camoranesi, Nedved and Trez and think this is a great squad because it is not.
I would rather have the problem of tweaking with Roma's and Fiorentina's squad where you just need 1 or 2 world class players for them to be very good unlike ours where I dont even know where to start.
Dp and Trez are not getting younger, Nedved should be gone by next season, Camoranesi cannot play too many matches any more.
Don't have a decent right back or left back, no creativity and if someone tempts Buffon away we are royally screwed.
I am still unsure as to what Mellberg would bring to this team as he is not what we need and coming to seriea for the 1st time aged 30 and over is not the way to go especially when you are coming from Villa
You aren't giving our squad enough credit. Ofcourse the players you mentioned are the stars, but you cant forget about Chiellini,Zanetti,Iaquinta and Zebina and then you have others who were unlucky with Ranieri's tactics like Tiago and Palladino. Both have the talent. We saw that last year. Andrade, Legro (in form)and Marchionni are good players too. And Sissoko is looking good so far. With this squad we could be playing any formation, there is enough variety in player-styles, but Ranieri sticks to the same.
We are better then Fiorentina in every department except defence. As for Roma, their defence is better, but for the rest we have the advantage. (Midfield is questionable)
Altough the depth could be better I admit.
Our starting XI doesnt need more then 3 new players. A new LB, a replacement for Nedved and 1 CB.
We are better then Fiorentina in every department except defence. As for Roma, their defence is better, but for the rest we have the advantage. (Midfield is questionable)
Altough the depth could be better I admit.
Our starting XI doesnt need more then 3 new players. A new LB, a replacement for Nedved and 1 CB.
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