[Serie A] JUVENTUS 2-1 Fiorentina (25-Oct-2011) (2 Viewers)

[Alen]

Do your own research. I have every game downloaded from this season. Against Parma most goals so far in the one game with the 4-2-4. Against Chievo we changed from the 4-5-1 which wasn't working to the 4-2-4 which immediately opened up the game and gave us more opportunities. Again against Catania we played a straight 4-3-3 which failed terribly and eventually changed back to the 4-2-4 and again our game flowed much more easily. Verse Genoa, 4-2-4 produces two goals.

In those games when we did start the 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 against provincial sides it failed to create any clear cut chances and its no coincidence that Conte changed back to 4-2-4 on just about every occasion. The 4-5-1 against Milan allowed us to dominate but again we created next to no chances and really were lucky to score at all. The 4-3-3 is obviously the way to go against teams who are looking to actually dominate us and beat us but only with Matri up front. Now Conte seems to have understood this logic as well when he played a 4-2-4 against Genoa and followed up with the 4-3-3 against Fiorentina.

I forgot the Siena game in which we also played the 4-2-4. We weren't clinical but we played an open game our forwards had plenty of space and we ended up clinching the win. Our first half against Bologna was the same. We played a good and open first half and should have scored more than one goal. So I think the 4-2-4 against those provincial sides has proven itself worthy. The 4-3-3/4-5-1 has done the very opposite. Only on one occasion has it really worked well for us and that was last night.

Notice how it was more about the venue than the system and more about the players we used in a system than the system itself. We were clueless in all our away games no matter the formation (Siena was 4-4-2/4-2-4 while the other two were a two natural wingers one striker formations). At home we created a lot no matter the formation. That Parma game was a 4-2-4 that changed to 3 men midfield in the 2nd half and we scored 2 goals with both formations on that match. Against Bologna we created tons of chances with a player less. Against Milan we dominated with 4-3-3 (one striker), against Genoa we scored two but were vulnerable at the back with 4-4-2 and then Fiorentina yesterday.
You can notice that we had bad games, be it at the back or with our realization up front, no matter the formation.
Yesterday's system was the most balanced and in long run it will work imo both against defensive and more attacking teams. This formation has a finisher, it has another natural striker who can build up play well, cover the left wing and find himself in chances and it offers the required protection for the defense. Yesterday's system had the right players. The only change that might happen in the future is Krasic to find his form and replace Pepe, but as of now this is the best starting XI choice and formation that we can do. I think we should keep it instead of experimenting all the time. Change it only if it won't give the wanted results in more than two matches in a row.

 

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[RAMI-N]

Pretty good game from us. I was quite impressed by how we played without the ball. Good pressing, right movements, smart runs, ...

However, we do have consistency problems. There always seem to be moments during a game when we "forget" what we're doing. Don't know whether it's a physical issue or a concentration problem, but it needs to be addressed asap.
Also, we're not (playing) smart enough.


Pirlo 6 - I won't dispute his importance to the team, but I'm getting fed up with the unnecessary risks he keeps on taking. He really should be smarter.


Esti -
De Ceglie -
Pazienza -

True... Pirlo has been taking many risks as of late...

 

[JuveJay]

Pirlo 6 - I won't dispute his importance to the team, but I'm getting fed up with the unnecessary risks he keeps on taking. He really should be smarter.

The thing is he did this for years at Milan, and sometimes in an Italy shirt too. It's one of the downsides I expected from him, it just seems to be happening more lately. His confidence is sky high right now but he should know better than to do it in a one goal game.

 

[Ahmed]

still some kinks need to be ironed out.

Vidal needs to be a LOT more disciplined, this free role bullshit has to stop.

Pirlo for some reason was not taking the game by the scruff of the neck.

also why were we so choked up in the 2nd half, there is lack of self-belief, Conte needs to work on that.

 

[JuveJay]

Hopefully this match will teach us that yet another SS wont change everything.
As expected Conte is now ready to compromise the solidarity of the 3 man midfield and expose the defense a bit more, whilst opting for a second forward as the extra man.
This is exactly what we hoped for, at least i hoped for...
But but, we came against our material limitations.

IMO we have neglected needs on the defense and finisher department.
It is unwise to keep spending our budget on new SS and CM each and every year and not buying the LB/CB and finisher we need more.

A slightly more solid defense and a slightly more prolific forward would have easily finished the game with authority.
This is my standard point of criticism over our transfer priorities and IMO it will keep haunting us until we realize it and decide to do smth about it...

I m still glad that we are dominating though and we are starting to reach the maximum of our capabilities.
I m, also really glad about Matri's goal, its really important for his morale to start scoring consistently, as i see him as our best option for the striker role.

The sadest thing is that our investment on Vucinic is turning out to be exactly what i expected...

Bro, you are obsessed with SS. Were you a Nazi in a former life?

 

[Azzurri7]

True... Pirlo has been taking many risks as of late...

100%..

Also, he looks like he's about to die around min 65 usually.

 

[Ahmed]

zombies don't die

 

[Linebreak]

Considering our domination in the first half, we should have been 3-0 up at half time. Once again we went to sleep for about 15 minutes and Fiorentina scored. We ended up scoring a somewhat lucky goal so overall there's still so much work to do. No time to get excited over this victory as Fiorentina only had 2-3 chances all game compared to our over 10 and we only just beat them.

 

[Nzoric]

Matri is capable of 20 goals this season. We should always play him whether it be in a one or two striker system. The man knows how to get it done.

The 4-3-3 seems to work well but that's against players who want to score against us. I still don't see it working against defensive teams and I hope Conte deploys the 4-2-4 to open the game up in those situations. For the up coming games however, the 4-3-3 seems suitable.

I think the possession for 1st half was 70% - 30% to our favor - so Viola were hardly a team that wanted to score against us. The 4-3-3 is awesome, we just need a bit more movement from midfield and Vucinic to stop changing the formation into a 4-3-1-2. He needs to stay wide instead of going in field and virtually blocking the midfield movement.

 

[frzl]

the pepe hate around here is kinda funny ^^

of course i wanted to kick him when he missed that ball and looked like an idiot and of course he had two great scoring opportunities... but otherwise he did really well.
the assist was definately lucky but be honest: if pirlo creates such a goal he´s "an artist" or "a genius"... pepe is clumsy and lucky
furthermore he did really, really well to get into these good finishing positions in the first place. and those weren´t easy goals at all. especially the second one: opponent right behind/besides him, great keeper, tough angle... still he should have scored one... i agree.
but still: he ran a lot till he literally couldn´t run anymore, had several nice passes, good runs, some good crosses... (very) good game all together.
but people just don´t care. every single game the same shit: "mimimi play elia instead of pepe. i haven´t seen him play since the world cup in 2010 and i don´t care that he wasn´t even a starter at hamburg but in fifa he is sooo fast"

vidal and vucenic fucked up so many easy passes and especially mirko should have scored for sure but still some people even want vidal to take marchisios place. i just don´t get it


MoM matri.

 

[Fake Melo]

Bro, you are obsessed with SS. Were you a Nazi in a former life?

 

[RAMI-N]

100%..

Also, he looks like he's about to die around min 65 usually.

zombies don't die

 

[Flamez]

However, we do have consistency problems. There always seem to be moments during a game when we "forget" what we're doing. Don't know whether it's a physical issue or a concentration problem, but it needs to be addressed asap.
Also, we're not (playing) smart enough.

The only point I can blame Conte for so far, but I think he'll just handle that in the end. Yesterday, it was obviously a physical issue for some players like the ones who were replaced, but we already had games that we lacked concentration/attitude rather than stamina (most of the draws). We just didn't want enough to kill the game asap. We wanted, but we didn't want completely, if you know what I mean. If Conte manage the team to play always like they did in the first half against Fiorentina, then I have no doubts we'd win the scudetto if we could stay injury-free.

The lack of goals problem is more down to Matri's supports lack of instinct than the coach imo.

I think the possession for 1st half was 70% - 30% to our favor - so Viola were hardly a team that wanted to score against us. The 4-3-3 is awesome, we just need a bit more movement from midfield and Vucinic to stop changing the formation into a 4-3-1-2. He needs to stay wide instead of going in field and virtually blocking the midfield movement.

Say whaaaaaaaat?

He's being dynamic (this word defines the 4-3-3 in my books) and you want him to stop? Man, that's not wise. Vucinic cuts inside, Marchisio or the LB go wide if needed. One of those go wide, another player cover their position... movement, it's all about movement.

 

[Fake Melo]

 

[Nzoric]

Say whaaaaaaaat?

He's being dynamic (this word defines the 4-3-3 in my books) and you want him to stop? Man, that's not wise. Vucinic cuts inside, Marchisio or the LB go wide if needed. One of those go wide, another player cover their position... movement, it's all about movement.

Oh I definitely agree, and I don't want him to stop moving around at all. But there were times were he would get in between the midfield and the attack and just stand still waiting for the ball. Especially in those moments where we had the ball all the time and couldn't seem to pierce the viola defense.

 

[Nzoric]

the pepe hate around here is kinda funny ^^

of course i wanted to kick him when he missed that ball and looked like an idiot and of course he had two great scoring opportunities... but otherwise he did really well.
the assist was definately lucky but be honest: if pirlo creates such a goal he´s "an artist" or "a genius"... pepe is clumsy and lucky
furthermore he did really, really well to get into these good finishing positions in the first place. and those weren´t easy goals at all. especially the second one: opponent right behind/besides him, great keeper, tough angle... still he should have scored one... i agree.
but still: he ran a lot till he literally couldn´t run anymore, had several nice passes, good runs, some good crosses... (very) good game all together.
but people just don´t care. every single game the same shit: "mimimi play elia instead of pepe. i haven´t seen him play since the world cup in 2010 and i don´t care that he wasn´t even a starter at hamburg but in fifa he is sooo fast"

vidal and vucenic fucked up so many easy passes and especially mirko should have scored for sure but still some people even want vidal to take marchisios place. i just don´t get it


MoM matri.

He did great, but missed three 100% opportunities? Only in Juventus.

 

[Juve_Kosova]

still some kinks need to be ironed out.

Vidal needs to be a LOT more disciplined, this free role bullshit has to stop.

Pirlo for some reason was not taking the game by the scruff of the neck.

also why were we so choked up in the 2nd half, there is lack of self-belief, Conte needs to work on that.

Vidal having the free role is the reason we can keep winning balls so fast and play the game we did in the first half. What he must learn is be more sure where and when he passes.. I agree with the rest u said.

 

[Nicholas]

433 with Quag instead of Pepe. What isn't clear for you?

You said the same formation with Quag.

It would not be the same formation then would it?

 

[Nzoric]

You said the same formation with Quag.

It would not be the same formation then would it?

Correct me if I'm wrong. A formation is simply the tactical placement of players on the pitch, it has nothing to do which 11 players make up the squad.

 

[Nicholas]

True, Cam can go to hell anyway