[Serie A. 6th round] Palermo 0-1 JUVENTUS [24th September, 2016] (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Marc
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Here comes the "expertise".Sick of that million ultra stubborn/nonsense posts.
-Massively important midweek game?Come on again ?Who is our opponent ?Real,Barca or Bayern?Oh I forgot the mighty Dinamo Zagreb.Well that explains everything.By the way I am going in Zagreb to watch the game so stop that typical bull$#@! about watching games.I have watched and recorded all our games from 2010 till now and watching Juve games 20 years ,at least.This was within the first 3 most ugliest games we played since than(2010 till now),maybe the most ugliest."We gave away 0 chances"?To what team?Mighty Palermo."Holding back with the midweek game in mind".Yeah,absolutely right.We should trash Dinamo with our Primavera team.Why doesn't we "gave away 0 chances to Inter"? what game was in our mind "?Cagliari?When we play good I will hail the team ,when we play crap like today I will criticize.As simple as that.Basic English.
And again,seriously I can bet that I watched more Juve games that you will ever watch,so your comments about this are nonsense .We played some pretty ugly games with Conte (more) and with Allegri (less) but not this ugly.Of course we must exclude post Calciopolli DelNeri/Ferrara?Ranieri era.At that time there were some pretty ugly games.But in that time we were lost in the space with Secco and other losers.
Don't bother to explain over and over.Was enough.
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-Massively important midweek game?Come on again ?Who is our opponent ?Real,Barca or Bayern?Oh I forgot the mighty Dinamo Zagreb.Well that explains everything.By the way I am going in Zagreb to watch the game so stop that typical bull$#@! about watching games.I have watched and recorded all our games from 2010 till now and watching Juve games 20 years ,at least.This was within the first 3 most ugliest games we played since than(2010 till now),maybe the most ugliest."We gave away 0 chances"?To what team?Mighty Palermo."Holding back with the midweek game in mind".Yeah,absolutely right.We should trash Dinamo with our Primavera team.Why doesn't we "gave away 0 chances to Inter"? what game was in our mind "?Cagliari?When we play good I will hail the team ,when we play crap like today I will criticize.As simple as that.Basic English.
And again,seriously I can bet that I watched more Juve games that you will ever watch,so your comments about this are nonsense .We played some pretty ugly games with Conte (more) and with Allegri (less) but not this ugly.Of course we must exclude post Calciopolli DelNeri/Ferrara?Ranieri era.At that time there were some pretty ugly games.But in that time we were lost in the space with Secco and other losers.
Don't bother to explain over and over.Was enough.
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When the likes of real barca bayern lost to some small clubs they usually lost it due to some miraculous goals or counter attack and usually it also involved massive luck factor on both teams (the smaler club score with their only shot on goal and the mighty club denied goals for various reasons)
However one sure common thing between those giants is that they utterly dominated their opponents despite the scoreline, we almost never seen them played so bad and look like a midtable team, unable to outposses their smaller opponents and the likes
You don't see real barca bayern shitting their pants against the likes of palermo bremen osasuna
They dictate the play against those lesser clubs, they stick to their character as big clubs
We don't, somehow, very far too often we chameleon our way to the level of our opponent when we should exercise authority toward them.
Until that change, we aren't going to be on the same level with the elites.
agree totally with you, Allegri is nerfing our ability with his 3-5-2 obsession, I always thought of the guy as a lover of attacking football but seems like since he came here he is so scared to lose/fail and is still under Conte's shadow to totally implement his own ideas in our play, you have certain people try so hard to see positives in the 3-5-2 that totally leaves our strikers completely isolated that the opponent usually always is pinning us back in our own half and that's even mid-table and small clubs, these same people that defend the formation strongly know in their hearts it won't get us anywhere in Europe, its a shame how they defend it everyday in and out, even our best European days have always been whilst deploying a back 4, if we can't beat today's Serie A clubs with a back 4 then its a shame, we don't need 3 men defending all the time when we have some intelligent attackers who cannot express themselves to the best of their ability because a damn formation holds them back..
Well I think after all this time I've found out the term for the problem this club is having to extend the superiority in domestic competition to europe, it all boil down to this :
This club has a supranatural innate ability to chameleon it's play style to match whatever level of opponent it play against.
When we're facing bigger (not in relative to ours but in general) clubs we often can match them.
However very often the same thing happened when we're facing smaller clubs, it doesn't matter whether it's sevilla or benfica or hamburg or fulham or galatasaray or palermo or noejarsland whatever; very often this club no matter what squad it has, this club would simply somehow chameleon it's way to become the same level with those lesser clubs it play against and were having far too much problem on those matches that it should be on paper.
Look again at those smaller clubs I mentioned above where we were having troubles in the last a decade or so in europe.
How many times the likes of real barca bayern or even english sides + psg and others at those level were having such big troubles against those kind of clubs??? How many times did they play against those team and when they were at it, somehow they managed themselves to look like a midtable team in the process like we repeatedly done?
Seeing the pattern being repeated, you gotta ask what exactly is wrong?
IMO the problem came from the cultural and mentality of this club and calcio in general, the emphasis on defence, the neglecting of attacking flair and modern wing play, also the too much "self restrain" / respecting the opponent and such, the reactive approach to games instead of being pro active... I don't know about you but IMO those are at the counterpoints on how other big continental clubs are doing/behaving (of course with the exception of atletico)
Maybe some of those factors cannot really be proven, however there is some evidence for that, like the complete lack of quality italian attacking players atm, the lack of italian wingers (berardi insigne bernadeschi are only above mediocre, heck there even no good italian striker atm lol).
This is no longer a matter of personnel qualities, this is cultural / mindset / mental problems.
This club has a supranatural innate ability to chameleon it's play style to match whatever level of opponent it play against.
When we're facing bigger (not in relative to ours but in general) clubs we often can match them.
However very often the same thing happened when we're facing smaller clubs, it doesn't matter whether it's sevilla or benfica or hamburg or fulham or galatasaray or palermo or noejarsland whatever; very often this club no matter what squad it has, this club would simply somehow chameleon it's way to become the same level with those lesser clubs it play against and were having far too much problem on those matches that it should be on paper.
Look again at those smaller clubs I mentioned above where we were having troubles in the last a decade or so in europe.
How many times the likes of real barca bayern or even english sides + psg and others at those level were having such big troubles against those kind of clubs??? How many times did they play against those team and when they were at it, somehow they managed themselves to look like a midtable team in the process like we repeatedly done?
Seeing the pattern being repeated, you gotta ask what exactly is wrong?
IMO the problem came from the cultural and mentality of this club and calcio in general, the emphasis on defence, the neglecting of attacking flair and modern wing play, also the too much "self restrain" / respecting the opponent and such, the reactive approach to games instead of being pro active... I don't know about you but IMO those are at the counterpoints on how other big continental clubs are doing/behaving (of course with the exception of atletico)
Maybe some of those factors cannot really be proven, however there is some evidence for that, like the complete lack of quality italian attacking players atm, the lack of italian wingers (berardi insigne bernadeschi are only above mediocre, heck there even no good italian striker atm lol).
This is no longer a matter of personnel qualities, this is cultural / mindset / mental problems.
but-but-but barca, bayern and madrid win EVERY league game 10-0 while we are losing every game 0-5. FIRE MAX SO I GET MY NEW SHINY COACH NOW!
Some of these dunces would rather we lose 1-0 to Palermo playing "attractive" football, than beat them playing boring football (even so we created 3 gilt-edged chances for Mandzu, and Palermo had nary a chance on our goal).
Barcelona loses 1-0 at home to relegation fodder Alaves, but they "dominated" the match so it's okay, and somehow more impressive. :
:
This forum is hilarious right now. There's been a month-long meltdown going on now, even though we've started the season with 15 points from 6 Serie A matches, and a draw with Sevilla in a match we dominated and only poor finishing stopped us from winning.
Some of these dunces would rather we lose 1-0 to Palermo playing "attractive" football, than beat them playing boring football (even so we created 3 gilt-edged chances for Mandzu, and Palermo had nary a chance on our goal).
Barcelona loses 1-0 at home to relegation fodder Alaves, but they "dominated" the match so it's okay, and somehow more impressive. ::
Some of these dunces would rather we lose 1-0 to Palermo playing "attractive" football, than beat them playing boring football (even so we created 3 gilt-edged chances for Mandzu, and Palermo had nary a chance on our goal).
Barcelona loses 1-0 at home to relegation fodder Alaves, but they "dominated" the match so it's okay, and somehow more impressive. :
:
Preparing for the huge game that is Dinamo Zagreb who lost 3-0 to freakin Lyon? 
Jump off Allegri's $#@ and be rational for once instead of making excuses for every pathetic performance. We've had two meaningful games this year and won none. I don't even bother about the league, we're winning it easily.
I believe in Allegri and know we're going to peak after Christmas but this is one of the biggest clubs in the world and it's nothing wrong in people expecting great football from the start instead of this unmotivated sloppy crap they're getting.
Jump off Allegri's $#@ and be rational for once instead of making excuses for every pathetic performance. We've had two meaningful games this year and won none. I don't even bother about the league, we're winning it easily.
I believe in Allegri and know we're going to peak after Christmas but this is one of the biggest clubs in the world and it's nothing wrong in people expecting great football from the start instead of this unmotivated sloppy crap they're getting.
So a club can't evolve? That exact excuse you're using right there is why this club hasn't won the Champions League for 20 years. We made it to the CL final meeting a team playing modern football in 2015. We have to evolve and I think we have the squad to evolve. We don't have to be Bayern or Barca but that mindset you described is why we fail in crucial moments in Europe.
Wat?
That's just nonsense. We lost in 2003 because our best player was suspended for the final.
Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012 both won CL playing extremely negative football. Far more so than Juve has for the past 5 years. Atletico Madrid plays some of the most effective anti-football seen post-2000 and has played in 2 of the last 3 CL finals. They beat (and outplayed) uber-modern Barca twice. We beat Real Madrid two years ago, the team that has won 2 of the last 3 CLs. And then lost to Barca.
Our playstyle isn't why we haven't won the CL in 20 years. Calciopoli almost destroying the club is the reason. It's quite obvious we were one of the strongest teams in the world in 2005-06, even if we underachieved that year in CL. It's also quite obvious that we would have figured things out eventually with the squad we had + the finances we had at that time, and won a CL title. Calciopoli happened and we've basically been clawing our way back towards the top, one inch at a time ever since.
A team could easily win the CL playing Catenaccio today. It has very little to do with style, and much more so to do with luck and peaking at the right time, certain players performing at their best in those last games.
That's just nonsense. We lost in 2003 because our best player was suspended for the final.
Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012 both won CL playing extremely negative football. Far more so than Juve has for the past 5 years. Atletico Madrid plays some of the most effective anti-football seen post-2000 and has played in 2 of the last 3 CL finals. They beat (and outplayed) uber-modern Barca twice. We beat Real Madrid two years ago, the team that has won 2 of the last 3 CLs. And then lost to Barca.
Our playstyle isn't why we haven't won the CL in 20 years. Calciopoli almost destroying the club is the reason. It's quite obvious we were one of the strongest teams in the world in 2005-06, even if we underachieved that year in CL. It's also quite obvious that we would have figured things out eventually with the squad we had + the finances we had at that time, and won a CL title. Calciopoli happened and we've basically been clawing our way back towards the top, one inch at a time ever since.
A team could easily win the CL playing Catenaccio today. It has very little to do with style, and much more so to do with luck and peaking at the right time, certain players performing at their best in those last games.