savethemales.ca (1 Viewer)

[Layce Erayce]

I saw that website in Holdon's siggy.

Very thought-provoking- not just the website, but the issue of feminism, gender roles and sexuality too.

Im sure some will think the website is a load of far-right crock but I find a lot of it true.

Is our society really becoming better?

 

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[Holygr4le]

Is our society really becoming better?

The question is unnecessary.
The society is evolving.
Evolution is unstoppable and therefore pointless to discuss.

 

[Layce Erayce]

The question is unnecessary.
The society is evolving.
Evolution is unstoppable and therefore pointless to discuss.

Postmodernism at its finest

But is this evolution really good for society as a whole?

 

[Holygr4le]

Postmodernism at its finest

But is this evolution really good for society as a whole?

Evolution equals survivor.
Good? Do you wanna survive?

 

[mikhail]

The question is unnecessary.
The society is evolving.
Evolution is unstoppable and therefore pointless to discuss.

There's a difference between unstoppable and uncontrolable.

Feminism is a thorny issue. I think it's mostly achieved its goals, but that's not stopping it. Much like with race, the situation today is, IMHO, one where people are oversensitive to gender.

When I see companies, civil services, even industries criticised for having too few women or minorities, I'm always saddened. After all this time, why can't we just see them as people?

 

[Layce Erayce]

Evolution equals survivor.
Good? Do you wanna survive?

You would get a resounding NO on that answer. I doubt you can prove that in this case "evolution" looks to survival as its main goal- simply because none of the motives behind the changes have anything to do with overall long term survival or improvement of society as a whole, either consciously or subconsciously. As such, your argument simply waves its magic wand upon itself, rendering itself redundant.

Wanna try again?

 

[Holygr4le]

There's a difference between unstoppable and uncontrolable.

Feminism is a thorny issue. I think it's mostly achieved its goals, but that's not stopping it. Much like with race, the situation today is, IMHO, one where people are oversensitive to gender.

When I see companies, civil services, even industries criticised for having too few women or minorities, I'm always saddened. After all this time, why can't we just see them as people?

Ok Mikhail. You forced me to answer this topic seriously.

You are right. We should see people as people and not gender. The tricky part is where to draw the line. If women are paid less for making the same kind of work as men then we have a problem. We should not ever try to achieve a 50/50 situation cause then we force society to adjustments it does not have a possibility to make on its own.

My personal view is that there are some great differences between men and women that we should embrace. Not reject. Our main problem is that the men dominated occupations are better paid with the same amount of education time. As if we value marketing higher then healthcare.

 

[Holygr4le]

You would get a resounding NO on that answer. I doubt you can prove that in this case "evolution" looks to survival as its main goal- simply because none of the motives behind the changes have anything to do with overall long term survival or improvement of society as a whole, either consciously or subconsciously. As such, your argument simply waves its magic wand upon itself, rendering itself redundant.

Wanna try again?

Of course, I’ll try any time.

Mother nature and our bellowed earth has there own way of taking care of problems or/and adjustments to heal, explore, save their interest.
At this point the unisex trend might be a way to break our race down. Earths own way of stopping evolution.
Does that even exists? Mother nature that is…

 

[mikhail]

Ok Mikhail. You forced me to answer this topic seriously.

You are right. We should see people as people and not gender. The tricky part is where to draw the line. If women are paid less for making the same kind of work as men then we have a problem. We should not ever try to achieve a 50/50 situation cause then we force society to adjustments it does not have a possibility to make on its own.

Certainly. However, I regularly see surveys which say that women graduates are less well paid, when they dominate the Arts programme here - a practically useless qualification. Women dominate careers like school-teaching now - not an especially well-paid job, but they seem to want to do it. When people then use that pay as a skewed example of how women are discriminated against, it makes my blood boil.

Of course, you can question whether those careers should be better paid or not. That's another issue entirely - one close to my heart too. As a technical person, I'll probably spend my career on good but not exceptional money as the vital part of a business. In other words, business graduates are likely to make obscene money off my technical knowledge. umpkin:

Of course, women should not be paid less for the same job. That's a given now. I would have thought the labour courts would be up to dealing with those issues now though.

My personal view is that there are some great differences between men and women that we should embrace. Not reject. Our main problem is that the men dominated occupations are better paid with the same amount of education time. As if we value marketing higher then healthcare.

Well said.

 

[Layce Erayce]

Of course, I’ll try any time.

Mother nature and our bellowed earth has there own way of taking care of problems or/and adjustments to heal, explore, save their interest.
At this point the unisex trend might be a way to break our race down. Earths own way of stopping evolution.
Does that even exists? Mother nature that is…

How does breaking our race down benefit our race in any way? I understand what you mean about evolution helping, but do you think that people are going too far? In the name of social equality they are breaking down other parts of society?

To be clear, I am for equal opportunities and treatment of women. But I am against what is going on in society right now- the breakdown of the family unit, low birth rates all over the industrialised world, a focus on materialism as a sign of success, etc. In the long run I see this as society becoming worse, not better.

The motives behind the evolution, to put it in one word is convenience- but too much convenience will ultimately kill us, no?

 

[Holygr4le]

Certainly. However, I regularly see surveys which say that women graduates are less well paid, when they dominate the Arts programme here - a practically useless qualification. Women dominate careers like school-teaching now - not an especially well-paid job, but they seem to want to do it. When people then use that pay as a skewed example of how women are discriminated against, it makes my blood boil.

Agree to a certain point.
As it is men whom has set the rules and standards it is only natural that men dominatet occupations are better paid. When you say that “seem to want to do it” it is a truth with modification. Why do they want it? Because it is in our genes or because the society has set those standards? Probably a mix of them both.

What we tender to see now days is a reverse discrimination. The floods are poring through the open hatches and allows the “feminists” to blame men for everything.
It is truly hard to understand the word symbiosis for some.

 

[Holygr4le]

How does breaking our race down benefit our race in any way? I understand what you mean about evolution helping, but do you think that people are going too far? In the name of social equality they are breaking down other parts of society?

Exactly!
My question was really in benefit of whom is this discussion? In benefit for mankind or earth?

To be clear, I am for equal opportunities and treatment of women. But I am against what is going on in society right now- the breakdown of the family unit, low birth rates all over the industrialised world, a focus on materialism as a sign of success, etc. In the long run I see this as society becoming worse, not better.

The motives behind the evolution, to put it in one word is convenience- but too much convenience will ultimately kill us, no?

Ever heard of the expression “it was better in my days”?
Well…, was it?
I agree on many things. But to take the discussion further one interesting question is the point of family unit. It has been declared as clearly unhealthy. Yeah, I know. Hits you hard.
To explain: Family is our way of trying to keep the flock. Only one problem, a family is far smaller than a flock. So, when we were in a flock you had several role models. If your father was a no good deed kind of type you had the great hunter to look up to. Or the blacksmith and so on. Today when we have our families without role models cause our father works all the time or is alcoholic we turn to our flock. And when the flock is absent we turn to our reserves; television or the streets.

I know. I just lost it…

 

[Layce Erayce]

Exactly!
My question was really in benefit of whom is this discussion? In benefit for mankind or earth?



Ever heard of the expression “it was better in my days”?
Well…, was it?
I agree on many things. But to take the discussion further one interesting question is the point of family unit. It has been declared as clearly unhealthy. Yeah, I know. Hits you hard.
To explain: Family is our way of trying to keep the flock. Only one problem, a family is far smaller than a flock. So, when we were in a flock you had several role models. If your father was a no good deed kind of type you had the great hunter to look up to. Or the blacksmith and so on. Today when we have our families without role models cause our father works all the time or is alcoholic we turn to our flock. And when the flock is absent we turn to our reserves; television or the streets.

I know. I just lost it…

No, you make perfect sense!

But I disagree with the statement that "families are clearly unhealthy". Families may not be as good as extended families or tribes in some aspects, but they are much better than growing up in a foster home, or orphanage, or the street, or without a father.

I think society should help make good parents, which will help make good children. Alcoholism and workoholism etc are in many ways products of society.

You know whats ironic? We started inventing things because we wanted to make things easy for us- electricity, cars, etc. Now we are becoming fat and lazy and weak- so much that to become strong we have to run around in circles or go to the gym, doing so much work but not getting anything accomplished.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Man, the glass ceiling is a bitch.

 

[Cronios]

Speaking about women taking the worst jobs with a lesser salary,
lets take Greece for example, just because it can offer us some good easy numbers,
we have around 10mil people men and women,
lets speculate that the half of them,(if not less) are in the right age to work and the have the right knowledge to do the most complicated jobs that offer big money...
that makes it 5mil high class workers atleast,
we have max 2mil places of work(docs,lawyers,public agents,teachers etc) that provide enough salary to raise a family,

if we equally share those places to man and women by law,that means:
one mil man will be able to feed their family corectly and one mil women,
the rich women will choose the rich men(because today the women choose their husband, thanx to feminism and they always choose money)
that would make 2/5 families happy and 3/5 poor(with minor jobs and money)
(or 1mil men +1mil women X 2mil children =4mil/10mil of total populance)

But if we only choose women or men by law to have the jobs,
that would conclude:

2mil (lets say men working and earning high) + 2mil wifes X 2mil children = 8/10 happy families,

numbers speak for themselves,the society is adapting automatically in the needs of people no states law can change this balance, because any change is destined to fail.

One sex sould be speliased to work more and earn more than the other,
Which?
men have better tolerance and power and are much more active(hobbies,activities),
women are more fragile,physical+psihical unstable(menstr,pregnacy etc)
SIMPLE!

well, i believe men today would be pleased if women were the ones selected to work
and men's only care were how to pick up chicks,
but our society wouldnt,this how we evolved to,thats the natural curse of things...
women sould consider this too and be thankfull for what we offered them so far.