Same Sex Marriage (18 Viewers)

- vOnAm -

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2004
3,779
They are IMO misguided people, and maybe the best way to set them right is not by castigating them, but by reaching out to them.
Again, I agree...


I dont believe in god, in fact I think religion is completely wrong, but I respect people who do believe in god, because i care more about who they are not what they believe...I really hope you can change in what you believe, you may not like it, you may disagree with it, but it isnt your place to tell people what they should or shouldnt do, it is there choice not yours, if that makes them happy then great for them. Let them be happy...
That makes us very different (the fact about believing in god) which makes it pointless to argue about this matter.

But I do agree that people are responsible for their own act and that we can't force other people what we want or believe, I do think we should warn people of incorrect behavior (or at least what we think is incorrect),.....I don't hate u for believing gay is perfectly normal and acceptable, I just 100% disagree with gay marriage.
 

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Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by - vOnAm - ] ++
That makes us very different (the fact about believing in god) which makes it pointless to argue about this matter.

But I do agree that people are responsible for their own act and that we can't force other people what we want or believe, I do think we should warn people of incorrect behavior (or at least what we think is incorrect),.....I don't hate u for believing gay is perfectly normal and acceptable, I just 100% disagree with gay marriage.
They arent so different, if I hated someone because they believed in a religion I though was wrong, that would make me as wrong as someone who hates someone because they are gay, it basic principal is the same...its ignorant, discrimination and percucution for something they dont understand so they simple label it as "wrong".
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++


Listen chxta, you have to become more tolerant, not that they are doing anything wrong at all, but there is no room in the world for that kind of ignorant opinion, it is those opinions that made the spain "fans do those "monkey" chants to Shaun Wright-Phillips, its those opinions that made me hate Lazio, I dont want to hate you.
The people who made those monkey sounds are idiots, and maybe I was an idiot too by condemning all homos.

but it isnt your place to tell people what they should or shouldnt do, it is there choice not yours, if that makes them happy then great for them. Let them be happy...
That IMO is wrong girlie...

Someone has to tell people what they can and/or can't do or else the world will descend into anarchy. That's why we have laws. Imagine this scenario...

I said earlier that I hate gays and that I'd like to kill them all, granted that since this thread started, that strong feeling has been tempered down, but suppose I still had that feeling? Someone has to make a rule that says Thou shalt not kill, or else I'll do what I like and go on a killing spree.

I like you too girlie, let's kiss and make up. :kiss:
 

- vOnAm -

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2004
3,779
++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++


They arent so different, if I hated someone because they believed in a religion I though was wrong, that would make me as wrong as someone who hates someone because they are gay, it basic principal is the same...its ignorant, discrimination and percucution for something they dont understand so they simple label it as "wrong".
I don't understand what u mean with "they aren't different", I just meant we are different because u don't believe in god while I do which is actually the bases of my arguement for not agreeing with gay marriages.

If not being gay is considered as not understanding then I won't argue, but I do have gay friends, I treat them as I would anyother friend, but I do believe that he should be helped to become heterosexual again, it has happened before.
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


The people who made those monkey sounds are idiots, and maybe I was an idiot too by condemning all homos.
I'm afraid I am going to have to say that you were...but your learning...

That IMO is wrong girlie...

Someone has to tell people what they can and/or can't do or else the world will descend into anarchy. That's why we have laws. Imagine this scenario...
That ISNT right, that is DICTATORSHIP. Of course people have to follow the law, BUT NO-ONE has the right to "tell people what they can and/or can't do"...That isnt right at all. If that was the case...(please dont take offense from this...), I should be at home waiting for my "oh-so-delightful" husband, with a little apron on..."how was your day honey?"...and you shouldnt be allowed on the same bus as white people (if you lived in a white majorite country), is that the kind of world you want to go back to chxta? Where both of us would of been "2nd class citiziens"? That is a dictatorship, and that is something the world doesnt need.

I said earlier that I hate gays and that I'd like to kill them all, granted that since this thread started, that strong feeling has been tempered down, but suppose I still had that feeling? Someone has to make a rule that says Thou shalt not kill, or else I'll do what I like and go on a killing spree.
Please tell me that you really dont believe that? Kill them? That is very wrong if you believe that, I though you meant it as a joke...That is what gave rise to the "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia...You made a thread called "Atrocities", why were these caused? Because people couldnt see past people's differences, and it upset you, yet you cant see that, that very idea reside in yourself? Why should you care about people dying or suffering in Darfur, when "like you said" given the chance you'd do the same thing? Genocide happens because of those ideas, because people believe that, it is the same thing even if the "reasons" for it are different...
 
Oct 1, 2002
2,090
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


I challenge you...

Bring forth a religion that claims to worship God, and at the same time accepts homosexuality and I will hold my peace.
man, it's not even a challenge...
Buddhist, Hinduism, Confucianism and many many more I don't know.
while those religions above doesn't said that they accept homosexuality, they don't condemn it either. how do you know they condemn it?are you by chance god himself?
I doubt Jesus himself ever said, homosexuality is forbidden. maybe one of his students' students' ....... ....... .....student said that but not Jesus himself.

word of advice, open your eyes and accept the reality that u know so little about this world.It'll make you easier to accept other people's opinion.

and I don't force you to change your opinion, at least don't force yours on other people.
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by - vOnAm - ] ++


I don't understand what u mean with "they aren't different", I just meant we are different because u don't believe in god while I do which is actually the bases of my arguement for not agreeing with gay marriages.

If not being gay is considered as not understanding then I won't argue, but I do have gay friends, I treat them as I would anyother friend, but I do believe that he should be helped to become heterosexual again, it has happened before.
This is the problem with religion, it is the same as Hitler...Hitler said the "master-race" was white and looked like the "Bavarians" do, what is the different then "Religion" saying that people who are gay arent right?

Religion is meant to be "good" yet because of it, it draws the lines that divide people...It is the most prominent problem in our world today...Religion is supposed to teach people to "love one another", yet its very principal means people are forced to draw lines that stop people from really understand someone...
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by Alucard Belmont ] ++


man, it's not even a challenge...
Buddhist, Hinduism, Confucianism and many many more I don't know.
while those religions above doesn't said that they accept homosexuality, they don't condemn it either. how do you know they condemn it?are you by chance god himself?
I doubt Jesus himself ever said, homosexuality is forbidden . maybe one of his students' students' ....... ....... .....student said that but not Jesus himself.

word of advice, open your eyes and accept the reality that u know so little about this world.It'll make you easier to accept other people's opinion.

and I don't force you to change your opinion, at least don't force yours on other people.
That is the best thing anyone has said yet...I doubt (if he exists) that god is sitting up in Heaven right now going...(with a banner) "down with gays"...
 
Oct 1, 2002
2,090
++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++


This is the problem with religion, it is the same as Hitler...Hitler said the "master-race" was white and looked like the "Bavarians" do, what is the different then "Religion" saying that people who are gay arent right?

Religion is meant to be "good" yet because of it, it draws the lines that divide people...It is the most prominent problem in our world today...Religion is supposed to teach people to "love one another", yet its very principal means people are forced to draw lines that stop people from really understand someone...
so true. :thumb:
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++

Please tell me that you really dont believe that? Kill them? That is very wrong if you believe that, I though you meant it as a joke...That is what gave rise to the "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia...You made a thread called "Atrocities", why were these caused? Because people couldnt see past people's differences, and it upset you, yet you cant see that, that very idea reside in yourself? Why should you care about people dying or suffering in Darfur, when "like you said" given the chance you'd do the same thing? Genocide happens because of those ideas, because people believe that, it is the same thing even if the "reasons" for it are different...
I have seen ethnic cleansing with my own eyes, and believe me girlie, if the conditions are "right", you are capable if it. Let's not go there please. It brings up very terrible memories for me.

Concerning the talk about dictatorship, maybe it's because I was once a soldier that I hold on to this belief: People are basically cattle. They need a strong hand and a whip to keep in line.
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
++ [ originally posted by Alucard Belmont ] ++


man, it's not even a challenge...
Buddhist, Hinduism, Confucianism and many many more I don't know.
while those religions above doesn't said that they accept homosexuality, they don't condemn it either. how do you know they condemn it?are you by chance god himself?
I doubt Jesus himself ever said, homosexuality is forbidden. maybe one of his students' students' ....... ....... .....student said that but not Jesus himself.

word of advice, open your eyes and accept the reality that u know so little about this world.It'll make you easier to accept other people's opinion.

and I don't force you to change your opinion, at least don't force yours on other people.
You've mentioned some religions in answer to my challenge, so I'll hold my peace for now.
I doubt that they accept homosexuality though, so I'll go and try to find out. What I find, I'll let y'all know.
 

- vOnAm -

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2004
3,779
++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++


This is the problem with religion, it is the same as Hitler...Hitler said the "master-race" was white and looked like the "Bavarians" do, what is the different then "Religion" saying that people who are gay arent right?

Religion is meant to be "good" yet because of it, it draws the lines that divide people...It is the most prominent problem in our world today...Religion is supposed to teach people to "love one another", yet its very principal means people are forced to draw lines that stop people from really understand someone...
Oh thats what u meant :D, well, its hard to talk about religion and god to somebody who doesn't believe it. But religion is meant to be a guideline for our lives. And so we will only know definately once judgement day has come, you will also know that there is GOD.

And I do believe there is a passage in the bible regarding a gay community and how it was condemned, I'm a muslim so I never really bothered to look up the passage, only know the name in Indonesian. But in any case we have the same story in the Qur'an.

That ISNT right, that is DICTATORSHIP. Of course people have to follow the law, BUT NO-ONE has the right to "tell people what they can and/or can't do"...That isnt right at all. If that was the case...(please dont take offense from this...), I should be at home waiting for my "oh-so-delightful" husband, with a little apron on..."how was your day honey?"...and you shouldnt be allowed on the same bus as white people (if you lived in a white majorite country), is that the kind of world you want to go back to chxta? Where both of us would of been "2nd class citiziens"? That is a dictatorship, and that is something the world doesnt need.
There is a difference between laws and discrimination. But I don't think people should be Free to do what they want, there is no such thing as Total Freedom. We do have to have laws and regulations to a certain degree.
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
This argument is going nowhere. It will only end up being another "Nick Against The World" thread...

I will still post here, but I'll no longer condemn homosexuality outright in this thread, but I still maintain that it is disgusting...

I said I'll hold my peace, and I intend to keep my word.

Check here for an overview of Religions and homosexuality.
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


I have seen ethnic cleansing with my own eyes, and believe me girlie, if the conditions are "right", you are capable if it. Let's not go there please. It brings up very terrible memories for me.

Concerning the talk about dictatorship, maybe it's because I was once a soldier that I hold on to this belief: People are basically cattle. They need a strong hand and a whip to keep in line.
Then I'm sorry about your experiences, but I dont believe what you said. No-one can tell me what to do, I do what I feel is right, and I dont care whether a "book" claiming to be that of "god" tells me it is wrong.
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++
This argument is going nowhere. It will only end up being another "Nick Against The World" thread...

I will still post here, but I'll no longer condemn homosexuality outright in this thread, but I still maintain that it is disgusting...

I said I'll hold my peace, and I intend to keep my word.

Check here for an overview of Religions and homosexuality.
Okay, but if you want to continue this, you can PM me if you want, but I agree that its just going to get ugly...
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
The map shows the repercussions (if you may) of homosexuality across the world... I pulled it off Wikipedia.org



Nigeria doesn't tolerate homosexuality. :touched:
 

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
Let's try and throw this thread a little bit off topic... :D
The family of the teenager at the center of Michael Jackson's child-molestation trial was offered a new house and free college educations in exchange for appearing in a video refuting a damaging TV documentary, the teenager's stepfather testified.

Taking the stand at Jackson's child molestation trial, the stepfather also told jurors that the accuser, then 13, became mean, rude and distant after the time he spent with Jackson and that it took "several months" for his behavior to return to normal after the family left Jackson's Neverland Ranch in March 2003.

The boy's stepfather described him as "brainwashed," leading to a vigorous objection from Jackson's defense. The remark was stricken and the jury admonished to disregard it.

The defense tried to counter the stepfather's testimony by pointing out to jurors that he spurned the offer of a house and free educations because he wanted an even larger share of what he thought would be a financial windfall from the rebuttal video.

The stepfather, a major in the U.S. Army Reserve, admitted that he thought the offer was insufficient because he believed Jackson stood to earn $4 million to $5 million from selling his rebuttal -- and the family ought to share in the money.

He also admitted asking reporters from a British tabloid for money for an interview with the family because "I thought it was the standard in the industry." But he insisted he later declined their offer of $15,000.

"The more I thought about it, the less I liked it," he said. "It just wasn't going to be an appropriate thing to do with this family."

The stepfather said following the airing of "Living with Michael Jackson" in February 2003, Jackson associate Frank Tyson called the boy's mother repeatedly -- sometimes every 15 or 20 minutes -- about participating in a rebuttal video. He described her as "distressed" by the calls.

The stepfather, who was not married to the mother at the time but was living with her off and on, said Tyson told him that the family could get a new house and free college educations for the accuser, his brother and sister.

Not satisfied with the offer, and believing that the Jackson camp was "taking advantage" of the family, "I asked what he was offering financially or monetarily," the stepfather said -- at which point he said Tyson demanded to know if he was trying to blackmail Jackson.

He also said Tyson told him that "we're offering them protection," but wouldn't say who or what they needed protection from.

The mother eventually agreed to participate in the rebuttal video, which was played earlier in the trial. In it, she and the accuser, along with his brother and sister, laud Jackson and deny anything improper happened. However, the three children all testified that the video was scripted and they were coached on what to say.

Tyson was named along with four other Jackson associates as an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment against the entertainer in April 2004. The indictment alleges that Jackson and the five men conspired to intimidate and coerce the family into participating in damage control after the documentary, including holding them against their will in the weeks after it aired.

The indictment also alleges that Jackson paid Tyson $1 million about three weeks after the family left the ranch.



During the time prosecutors allege that the family was being held against its will, at Neverland and a Los Angeles hotel, the stepfather said he had several short phone conversations with the mother. She was "distressed" and "disturbed," and he said she told him she was being followed and had to take a chaperone wherever she went

However, the stepfather said the mother did not give him details.

"She wasn't telling me specifically what was happening, and I wasn't asking," he said. "She didn't want to talk about it."

Accompanied by his mother, Katherine, Jackson arrived at court Tuesday wearing a black blazer and pants, a white shirt and a gray tie and vest along with a blue armband. He waved and smiled at screaming fans outside the Santa Maria courthouse before entering.

Jackson, 46, is accused of molesting the boy -- now 15 years old -- at Neverland, giving him alcohol and conspiring to hold his family captive in 2003.

Jackson has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
Poor sick man. I feel no anger towards him, just a lot of pity.
 

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