Riccardo Montolivo - CM - Fiorentina (6 Viewers)

[blondu]

cronios in the transfer perioud it's exactly like my mother when i get home from shoppings...you spend 100e for those jeans? how could you spend so much? (after i said that the price was 50) you will not wear those..they're useless

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Zacheryah]

oh cmon cron marchisio isnt playing leftwing, he never comes close to the line

in fact,he scored all his goals from the right side of the field

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Didn't he say that Bonucci was 18-25m at one point?

I remember him saying 22M most of the time. Then when you put it to him that all up the trasnfer was 15.5M (Cash + players) he'd make up some convoluted theory to support his claim.

 

[Lo-Pan]

We dont play 4-3-3, we dont use a trident or a playmaker behind the 2 forwards.
We only use 2 forwards, 4 midfielders and 4 defenders.
Pepe is our right lateral midfield, Pirlo the deep playmaker, Vidal the offensive CM ahead of him and Marchisio at the lateral left side.
After all the tweaking, Conte has concluded to this midfield as all of our available left sided options are rubbish.

For the same reason we moved Chiellini from the middle to the left side.
If you watched the creation of our team from August you will understand.
If we had a left sided Pepe, we wouldnt field a CM or a SS on the left, but Giacche is just not good enough.

Other times we play with just one forwards, a 4-1-3-1
defense-Pirlo-Vucinic/Giacche on the left,Marchisio/Vidal,Pepe-Matri

Because we have a surplus of quality subs of CMs and SSs, we use them out of position instead of our natural LMs, due to their crappy quality.

It really is that simple!!

If we were not having the quality surplus of CMs znd SSs we wouldnt try that.
When the season started we were expecting to field Pirlo and Vidal in the center, with Marchisio, Piazenza and Marronne as their subs.
So we opted to loan out Melo.
Were Marrotta blowed was in the left side, we made awful decisions and we had to adapt.
So Conte had to come up with those 2 quick fixes for the left flank.
Because Marchisio feels he cannot offer his full potential on the left flank, he asked for a more central role and so Conte demanded a more advancing role from Chielini.

Chiellini is though now more defensive orientated and he struggles with mediocre performances.

To adjust the whole situation we need a dedicated quality LB, so that Chiellini will bring his best and Bonucci benched untill he becomes as good as Barzagli. Our defense will be balanced again.
And a quality starter LM, no Elia type of compromises.
So again we will have 5CMs for 2 positions.

As an alternative we keep Chiellini on the left and buy a new CB starter.
And with both Vucinic and Quaq available we turn one into a LM (and again free one CM) or even better switch to a real 4-3-3 with the trident of Vucinic-Matri-Quaq (esp if we sign Borriello and keep Iaq)

If we deal with our real issues, the theoretical need for one more CM wont be even theoretical.
(as we now only speak of a possible double accidental of Vucinic/Quaq AND Marchisio/Vidal AND only as long as we dont have Boriello, which highly improbable to happen under this regime.)


If we are exposed in CMs with 5 players for 2 positions, then what are we in LB?
On the contrary, Conte's choice to field the extra CM or SS over the crappy LMs, demonstrates how stacked up we are in the CM and SS. Naturally as we can afford to sit Amauri on the bench and loan out Melo.
Dont be confused from the coaches options on personal and our roster's actual capabilities.
If we were cornered with CM injuries, we would be using our LMs.
But now we can afford not to, and rightfully, this was a wise decision by Conte to overcome the handicap set by Marrotta!!



No!!! Absolutely not!!!
We dont use a 4-3-3 because Pepe is not a forward, neither Marchisio.
We have never fielded 3 attackers on the same level, to call it a 4-3-3, 4-5-1 maybe (3CMs+2wide), but a 4-3-3 absolutely not!!
As i have explained above, we use either an extra CM or an extra SS on the left flank of our midfield, we do that because our natural options there are garbage.
If we had a Pepe on the left, the need for a third CM or a second SS wouldnt be there.
This is the root of our problems.
In your example you consider Pepe as a CM or a forward, at any case its invalid as he should then be considered as such regarding our available options in the roster. (and Krasic as his sub for the same reason)
So even in your case, we still have a surplus of options!!



So you do actually believe that we are using Pepe as a forward??
So this is why you are confused! Pepe is not a forward, he is an offensive lateral midfielder, a winger with other words.
He is a starter and covers our right side, so on our right side we have a winger.
A winger does not plays as deep as a forward, he rather plays as deep as a CM, so we actually play with a right winger besides our CMs, how is this a 4-3-3??
Even if Pepe tries a run, he still is a wide midfielder coming from the back into their box, if ichts comes to support him, does this make our formation a 3-3-4??
No because Licht or Chiellini are still wingbacks...

And we do we have in the left side!! Vucinic or Marchisio!
Are they wingers?? No they are not!
Do the share the same footballistic characteristics? Not really, but in a broad sense they are equivalent.

So why are we not respecting the symmetry here?? Because this is a compromise!! (defensive or offensive one)
A quick fix, an adaptation to hide our weakness and try for the optimal solution of the available material.

Why? because Marrotta f@ked up and we had to improvise.
But now we have a chance to make up for those mistakes, why should we insist making new ones?

Honestly, do you think that if we had a LM at Pepe league, would we use a CM or SS there??
Imagine us having one and recalculate our options!
Then do the same with a LB in our defense.

We only need 2 players, 2 starters we are refusing to buy for 6 consecutive years.
When will we stop buying more CM and SS in order to fix those 2 issues that have been haunting us from serie B???


PS and please dont get me start with our SS options, seriously!!
There is no other team with more SS choices than us, esp if you count Pepe, Krasic, EstiG and Elia as SSs, along with Vucinic, Quaq, Iaq, Amauri, DP and Giacche.
Heck we could field a whole freakin squad of them.
Considering we can bring back Giovinco, we should only be looking for a prolific finisher, someone who scores the chances our SSs are creating and wasting. Esp when Toni is gone and Matri fails to deliver +20goals in the championship alone with consistency.

We may well deploy 2 strikers, 4 midfielders and 4 midfielders, Cron, but we most certainly do not line up 4-4-2. Its clear to anyone watching is, from August, that other than against Napoli and Udinese, we have pretty much stuck to a very fluid 4-3-3. Pepe is far more a right wing forward, than a midfielder. Vucinic has played as a wide SS, and done very well I think. Pirlo has been far from solely deep lying in his regista duties, vidal is mainly defensive, but plays more as a box to box midfielder, and marchisio is the most adventurously positioned and directed of our very obvious central trio of midfielders. Its a great mix...and has led to us playing consistently, by far some of the best football I have seen of Juventus for at least two seasons. We are also top of the league, and unbeaten. Which to anyone supporting the club are definite, unwavering reasons to be cheerful and more positive and enthusiastic than for the last two seasons. How anyone claiming to support the club can pour scorn on our first half of the season, is beyond me...My hopes for the club are always to win, aim for the top, show savage spirit and ideally, play great football.

Tha major reason for Marchisio's huge upturn in form has been his redployment in the middle. True enough he can often be found helping out on the left hand midfield area, but hrarely finds himself playing large chunks of the game in a proper left midfielder/left winger position. He has blossomed, precisely because those duties are given mainly to others, allowing Claudio to do what he does best; attack the box from the middle, support the offence, drop back to play enforcer when Vidal goes forward.

Whether you see Pepe as a wide forward or not is inconsequential, for that is where he is playing, and other than a couple of poor showings, he has proven potent.

Pepe, Krasic, EstiG and Elia are NOT support strikers. None of them. I would only ever be interested in seeing Elia given a chance there, but then again, he is a natural winger.

Anyway, this is even starting to bore me, and I am finding it too hard to avoid focusing on the beautiful minx bitch who spent 9 hours drinking with me last night, then slept in my bed...a girl who can say in the same breath 'you know i have a man, so we can not be more than friends, daniel'...and 'i had a dream about you yesterday, we erein th park, on a bench, and you we blowing playfully into my ear...you know what that means, Daniel?'...time to stop presenting myself as the mouse on the end of her claws.

 

[Cronios]

So this is were the absurdity comes from, you guys consider Pepe, Krasic, Elia and EstiG as attackers.
Despite the fact that they are behind the lone striker/striker duo, near the middle line of the field (heck they are midfielders)

And you want Montolivo as one of the subs to play behind them.
So the Vucinic-Matri-Pepe in this forum is considered an attacking trident.
The back ups under this insane reasoning are all the SS and wingers (Quaq, DP, Iaq, Toni, Amauri, Giacche, Krasic, EstiG, Elia)
So 12 "forwards", you claim we need 7, so before we buy a new one, we need to get rid of 6
Ok then, if Marotta sells 6 of these guys first and then bring Borriello, its fine with me.
(although we need a prolific striker more than everything as the wingers and SS cant score many goals with consistency)

And that would leave us indeed with 5 players for 3 positions (Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Piazenza, Marronne)
and a need to buy 2 more midfielders.


Maybe one day Conte fields the Vucinic_Matri_Quaq trident and you guy realize what the trident really is...
No wonder we suffer from the inability to finish our chances...

 

[Halabalu]

Even if we sign him in january... I can't imagine how Conte will put him in squad. Our midfield is the most confident line now wich doesn't demand any changes on first sight. To buy well skilled player and put him on a bench? I don think that it is a good idea. Of course the squad rotation has to be done from time to time, but according to the fact that Juve doesn't participate in Euro cup's i guess that stable squad is more important.

 

[blondu]

So this is were the absurdity comes from, you guys consider Pepe, Krasic, Elia and EstiG as attackers.
Despite the fact that they are behind the lone striker/striker duo, near the middle line of the field (heck they are midfielders)

And you want Montolivo as one of the subs to play behind them.
So the Vucinic-Matri-Pepe in this forum is considered an attacking trident.
The back ups under this insane reasoning are all the SS and wingers (Quaq, DP, Iaq, Toni, Amauri, Giacche, Krasic, EstiG, Elia)
So 12 "forwards", you claim we need 7, so before we buy a new one, we need to get rid of 6
Ok then, if Marotta sells 6 of these guys first and then bring Borriello, its fine with me.
(although we need a prolific striker more than everything as the wingers and SS cant score many goals with consistency)

And that would leave us indeed with 5 players for 3 positions (Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Piazenza, Marronne)
and a need to buy 2 more midfielders.


Maybe one day Conte fields the Vucinic_Matri_Quaq trident and you guy realize what the trident really is...
No wonder we suffer from the inability to finish our chances...

today's football is so flexible cron..don't take that 'pepe is a midfield not a ss/winger' so seriously.. in my honest opinion we need a good lb, but if caceres comes we're setlled and a sub for pirlo. neither marchisio or vidal or pazienza can fit his shoes when he's not playing (it was only 2 matches but damn it showed).

 

[Cronios]

We may well deploy 2 strikers, 4 midfielders and 4 midfielders, Cron, but we most certainly do not line up 4-4-2. Its clear to anyone watching is, from August, that other than against Napoli and Udinese, we have pretty much stuck to a very fluid 4-3-3. Pepe is far more a right wing forward, than a midfielder. Vucinic has played as a wide SS, and done very well I think. Pirlo has been far from solely deep lying in his regista duties, vidal is mainly defensive, but plays more as a box to box midfielder, and marchisio is the most adventurously positioned and directed of our very obvious central trio of midfielders. Its a great mix...and has led to us playing consistently, by far some of the best football I have seen of Juventus for at least two seasons. We are also top of the league, and unbeaten. Which to anyone supporting the club are definite, unwavering reasons to be cheerful and more positive and enthusiastic than for the last two seasons. How anyone claiming to support the club can pour scorn on our first half of the season, is beyond me...My hopes for the club are always to win, aim for the top, show savage spirit and ideally, play great football.

Tha major reason for Marchisio's huge upturn in form has been his redployment in the middle. True enough he can often be found helping out on the left hand midfield area, but hrarely finds himself playing large chunks of the game in a proper left midfielder/left winger position. He has blossomed, precisely because those duties are given mainly to others, allowing Claudio to do what he does best; attack the box from the middle, support the offence, drop back to play enforcer when Vidal goes forward.

Whether you see Pepe as a wide forward or not is inconsequential, for that is where he is playing, and other than a couple of poor showings, he has proven potent.

Pepe, Krasic, EstiG and Elia are NOT support strikers. None of them. I would only ever be interested in seeing Elia given a chance there, but then again, he is a natural winger.

The reason why Marchisio was asked to play wide and tried to do so at the beginning of the season, is because he is better than our left sided options!
Do you deny that??

He declared that he would like a more central role, do you remember that?

This is where Conte had to adapt! He allowed him to play closer to the center, ans asked from the SS Vucinic/Giacche) to play deeper in the left wing.
This resulted at Matri being isolated, so it reflected the need for the right side (Licht+Pepe) to play a bit more forward.

So we actually use a 4-5-1, turning into a 2-5-3 as we attack (the wingbacks and wingers advance)
At this case at defense our midfield has a winger, 3CMs and a SS
as we attack our defense has 2 wingbacks and 3 CMs

This is a compromise because we are wasting a CB on the left, and the left SS as a left winger.
This option creates a lot, but has issues of finishing, simply because the lateral attacking line is playing too deep.
A proper LM playing behind Vucinic at the same height Pepe naturally does and provide with all the creativity needed, but would also allow Vucinic to move further forward and have more scoring chances.

An offensive starter LB would allow Chiellini to replace Bonucci and consolidate our defense and further boost our wingback supports with a dedicated offensive minded LB.

This situation is a quick fix Conte wisely conceived to take advantage of the surplus of our quality CMs and face the lack of quality options on the left.
If we remove this handicap from his hands and restore the balance, i m confident that he will find a yet more efficient solution to boost our performances, in particular, the finishing issue.

 

[Cronios]

today's football is so flexible cron..don't take that 'pepe is a midfield not a ss/winger' so seriously.. in my honest opinion we need a good lb, but if caceres comes we're setlled and a sub for pirlo. neither marchisio or vidal or pazienza can fit his shoes when he's not playing (it was only 2 matches but damn it showed).

Caceres can offer more to our formation and its needs of the LB than Chiellini, but i have little confidence that he can become our starter...

 

[blondu]

well chiello is really fucking our formation then..he didn't played so well as a cb in the start of this season, he played so-so as a lb. but chiello is better than bonucci so we won't buy caceres to keep him on the bench, we have de cegle for that

 

[Alen]

So this is were the absurdity comes from, you guys consider Pepe, Krasic, Elia and EstiG as attackers.
Despite the fact that they are behind the lone striker/striker duo, near the middle line of the field (heck they are midfielders)

And you want Montolivo as one of the subs to play behind them.
So the Vucinic-Matri-Pepe in this forum is considered an attacking trident.
The back ups under this insane reasoning are all the SS and wingers (Quaq, DP, Iaq, Toni, Amauri, Giacche, Krasic, EstiG, Elia)
So 12 "forwards", you claim we need 7, so before we buy a new one, we need to get rid of 6
Ok then, if Marotta sells 6 of these guys first and then bring Borriello, its fine with me.
(although we need a prolific striker more than everything as the wingers and SS cant score many goals with consistency)

And that would leave us indeed with 5 players for 3 positions (Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Piazenza, Marronne)
and a need to buy 2 more midfielders.


Maybe one day Conte fields the Vucinic_Matri_Quaq trident and you guy realize what the trident really is...
No wonder we suffer from the inability to finish our chances...

Serious question: Do you observe what's happening during our matches?
It's a 4-3-3 formation in its purest meaning. We have three players in the front line. That's why it's 4-3-3. How many times did Vucinic and Matri switch positions, with Matri hitting the left wing? How many times did Vucinic and Pepe switch positions during a match? It's a very flexible forward line that keeps changing positions. Freaking Pepe moved to the center of the box many times and scored goals there.
What does Barcelona play? If you followed them lately, you'd have seen that before the match starts the formation is presented as 4-3-3 with Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi in midfield, Sanchez, Fabregas and Messi in attack. Sanchez is a right winger, Fabregas is a CM while Messi is a SS.
According to your logic Barca play like this:

Goalkeeper
Defense
Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets-Fabregas
Sanchez----------------------------------Empty space
-----Messi
Empty space​

Do they play this formation?

Pepe isn't an attacker, but he obviously plays as one in Conte's formation.

 

[Cronios]

Serious question: Do you observe what's happening during our matches?
It's a 4-3-3 formation in its purest meaning. We have three players in the front line. That's why it's 4-3-3. How many times did Vucinic and Matri switch positions, with Matri hitting the left wing? How many times did Vucinic and Pepe switch positions during a match? It's a very flexible forward line that keeps changing positions. Freaking Pepe moved to the center of the box many times and scored goals there.
What does Barcelona play? If you followed them lately, you'd have seen that before the match starts the formation is presented as 4-3-3 with Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi in midfield, Sanchez, Fabregas and Messi in attack. Sanchez is a right winger, Fabregas is a CM while Messi is a SS.
According to your logic Barca play like this:

Goalkeeper
Defense
Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets-Fabregas
Sanchez----------------------------------Empty space
-----Messi
Empty space​

Do they play this formation?

Pepe isn't an attacker, but he obviously plays as one in Conte's formation.

As i already said 3 times in the above posts, whats happening is that our wingbacks and wingers move forward,
but still that doesnt make them wingers and forwards in my book, call me old fashioned but this is how i see it.
They are playing out of position, with all the inefficiencies that this brings. (in our case; lack of finishing, certain players not reaching maximum performance and the isolation of the lone forward.

I still insist that our formation is 4-5-1, as our wingers, like Pepe spend their maximum time in the midfield and not the opposition box.
With the same faulty logic one could claim that the advance of the winbacks in the opposition box make them forwards as well, or at east midfielders.

Anyways, i hear that we may sell Piazenza, at this case Montolivo for 5mil is welcomed!

PS i dont watch Barca

 

[JuveJay]

 

[GordoDeCentral]

love that guy

 

[Ahmed]

cronios in the transfer perioud it's exactly like my mother when i get home from shoppings...you spend 100e for those jeans? how could you spend so much? (after i said that the price was 50) you will not wear those..they're useless

but does your mom call the jeans you bought Italian and mediocre?

 

[JCK]

but does your mom call the jeans you bought Italian and mediocre?

The better question is if his mom, after two months, would come and tell him...blondu, history has proved me right everytime..."your 100 € jeans were not supposed to be bought in the first place and had you listened to me you wouldn't have ended in the mess you are in right now"

 

[Klin]

The better question is if his mom, after two months, would come and tell him...blondu, history has proved me right everytime..."your 220 € jeans were not supposed to be bought in the first place and had you listened to me you wouldn't have ended in the mess you are in right now"

Fixed.

 

[frick]

I thought the jeans was bought for 50 and she-Cron thought it was a 100?

 

[JCK]

I thought the jeans was bought for 50 and she-Cron thought it was a 100?

At first she thought it was for 100 but after a while she would increase the value in a lengthy lecture disregarding all the attempts from Blondu to correct her. She would also accuse him of working as a shoe salesman after telling her for years that he's a fireman.

 

[Ahmed]

At first she thought it was for 100 but after a while she would increase the value in a lengthy lecture disregarding all the attempts from Blondu to correct her. She would also accuse him of working as a shoe salesman after telling her for years that he's a fireman.