Premier League 2019/20 (23 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lapa

FLY, EAGLES FLY
Sep 29, 2008
19,949
No, it's a difference between facts and opinion. United's season up to this point shows facts are right and your opinion doesn't matter.

And ofc you're lowering standards. You didn't answer my question - would you be happy if Ramos and Carvajal served up what AWB and Maguire did? Ofc you wouldn't. Thus lowering the standards. Either that or you're just lapping literally anything.


No, no. No contradiction. I said fans shouldn't care what someone cost in terms of how much money the club spent, did the owners save anything etc. But obviously if a player cost more I'm going to expect more from him. Otherwise they wouldn't cost that much.


But I suppose Smalling and Jones had Makelele, Gattuso and Casemiro in front of them?

And ofc the back four isn't solely responsible, but again, two huge signings in defense should improve things right? They haven't. In case you forgot - facts:

- worst point total in 30 years since signing these great players
- worst run without a clean sheet in 48 years since signing these great players

You want to tell me all the other 48 teams had better midfield protection?

Also, why is it that Lindelof and De Gea are blamed a lot for goals conceded when Maguire for example had as many mistakes as them? I have a hunch why.

And also, you're fixating on ONE part of AWB's game he does well while just brushing aside his complete lack of ability to do anything with the ball. Just look at this:

kB1sNK9.jpg


This is pathetic.


Boy you're really clinging to that Welbeck part lol.

1. Rashford played 4000 more minutes than Welbeck at United
2. You seem to be under the impression it's easier to score in a team full of champions and higher expectations. You're badly mistaken.
3. Talk about contradicting yourself - you're saying Rashford's PK vs PSG was an achievement bc of the pressure it took to score, but then saying Welbeck had it easier playing for a much better team with more pressure and more expectations.
4. Rashford has complete freedom to shoot whenever and however much he wants. He would've been sent back to the academy after 5 minutes in SAF's team
5. Ratios account for all of it bc obviously good players will play and score in any team and circumstance. That's why players like Suarez, Cavani, Lewa, Aguero etc. have the same or similar ratios wherever they played.


Yes, and those issues were exacerbated by OGS approving sales of midfielders without replacement, not playing his best available midfielder for half a season because whatever reason, forcing Pogba to play half-healthy against mighty Rochdale which resulted in him being out for the rest of the season, McTominay playing injured and then aggravating that injury etc. Same for Rashford btw. Martial missed more games this season than all the seasons before combined.

Great man, mind and thinker that rape apologist Ole is.


My mistake about Ramos, I mixed up the dates. Doesn't change the fact about Toby tho, no matter how much you don't bother.


Have you ever listened to Pep speak before? Every team, player he's asked about is always amazing, the best, great etc.

Even then, that's the man who signed Stones for a record fee and missed.

Even then, that's Pep's opinion which STILL doesn't change the FACTS about Harry Maguire.
That had to be the longest post I've seen for a while.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Bananaman

New Member
May 14, 2020
44
No, it's a difference between facts and opinion. United's season up to this point shows facts are right and your opinion doesn't matter.
And ofc you're lowering standards. You didn't answer my question - would you be happy if Ramos and Carvajal served up what AWB and Maguire did? Ofc you wouldn't. Thus lowering the standards. Either that or you're just lapping literally anything.
Ramos and Carvajal are obviously better players so I would expect more from them, united can't just go out and cherry pick players like that tho unfortunately. Maguire and AWB have definitely been an improvement on who they replaced tho.

No, no. No contradiction. I said fans shouldn't care what someone cost in terms of how much money the club spent, did the owners save anything etc. But obviously if a player cost more I'm going to expect more from him. Otherwise they wouldn't cost that much.
So fans shouldn't care how much a player costs, but if a player costs more fans should expect more from the player, while simultaneously not caring how much he cost, got it.

But I suppose Smalling and Jones had Makelele, Gattuso and Casemiro in front of them?
Your claim of Jones being better than Maguire is just mad, you would of been better off letting that be rather than bringing his name up again. He's 5th choice centre back at united and on the way out in the next window if anyone is mad enough to buy him. We obviously are not going to agree on Smalling so lets just leave it.

And also, you're fixating on ONE part of AWB's game he does well while just brushing aside his complete lack of ability to do anything with the ball. Just look at this:
This is pathetic.
I've already admitted previously that AWB needs to improve going forward so, i'm not disagreeing with you here.

Boy you're really clinging to that Welbeck part lol.
1. Rashford played 4000 more minutes than Welbeck at United
2. You seem to be under the impression it's easier to score in a team full of champions and higher expectations. You're badly mistaken.
3. Talk about contradicting yourself - you're saying Rashford's PK vs PSG was an achievement bc of the pressure it took to score, but then saying Welbeck had it easier playing for a much better team with more pressure and more expectations.
4. Rashford has complete freedom to shoot whenever and however much he wants. He would've been sent back to the academy after 5 minutes in SAF's team
5. Ratios account for all of it bc obviously good players will play and score in any team and circumstance. That's why players like Suarez, Cavani, Lewa, Aguero etc. have the same or similar ratios wherever they played.
United dominated opponents more back then and created more chances, so there were more scoring opportunities. The most league goals welbeck ever scored for united in a season was 9. I would definitely back Rashford to do a lot better than that in a top team. He is already on course to do better than that in the current team.

Salah turned into a prolific scorer at liverpool, compare his stats at roma with liverpool. So ratios can drastically change when players move clubs, they don't just always remain consistent across the board. It is actually Martial that has been playing through the middle for united when he's fit this season, with rashford playing on the left as a wide player. Rashford has been played out wide for a lot of his time at united, so i'm not sure how fair the comparison even is. Maybe we should be comparing rashford with wide players of the past instead.

Welbeck versus Rashford? You just have to watch the two players side by side, the talent gap is obvious to most people.

Yes, and those issues were exacerbated by OGS approving sales of midfielders without replacement, not playing his best available midfielder for half a season because whatever reason, forcing Pogba to play half-healthy against mighty Rochdale which resulted in him being out for the rest of the season, McTominay playing injured and then aggravating that injury etc. Same for Rashford btw. Martial missed more games this season than all the seasons before combined.
Great man, mind and thinker that rape apologist Ole is.
Ok, so you seem to be agreeing here that its unfair to put all of the blame on the back four.

My mistake about Ramos, I mixed up the dates. Doesn't change the fact about Toby tho, no matter how much you don't bother.
I don't know who was number one on Jose's list, could been toby, could of been koulibaly, could of been maguire. United were heavily linked to all of them. It doesn't really matter either, the fact is Mourinho wanted Maguire but the club didn't want to pay leicester's asking price at that time. Mourinho has since then made comments explaining why he wanted maguire. So, like i said, mourinho wanted maguire.

Have you ever listened to Pep speak before? Every team, player he's asked about is always amazing, the best, great etc.
Even then, that's the man who signed Stones for a record fee and missed.
Even then, that's Pep's opinion which STILL doesn't change the FACTS about Harry Maguire.
[/QUOTE]

So you were wrong about both ramos and pep, cool.
 

IlCapitano

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2012
5,614
Ramos and Carvajal are obviously better players so I would expect more from them, united can't just go out and cherry pick players like that tho unfortunately. Maguire and AWB have definitely been an improvement on who they replaced tho.
Ofc they can. That they don't is a byproduct of fans like you gassing up windows like past summer which result in club's worst season in 3 decades then convincing themselves everything is dandy.

And again - they haven't. Every factual information proves they've been worse, let alone better.

So fans shouldn't care how much a player costs, but if a player costs more fans should expect more from the player, while simultaneously not caring how much he cost, got it.
Yes, fans shouldn't care about how much the club spends. As in worry about finances, player age etc. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Your claim of Jones being better than Maguire is just mad, you would of been better off letting that be rather than bringing his name up again. He's 5th choice centre back at united and on the way out in the next window if anyone is mad enough to buy him. We obviously are not going to agree on Smalling so lets just leave it.
I merely said that Smalling-Jones partnership when healthy was much better than a defense led by Maguire. Which is factually correct.

You're the one going on this tangent trying to distract from that factual information since you can't disprove it ofc.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I've already admitted previously that AWB needs to improve going forward so, i'm not disagreeing with you here.
He doesn't need to improve, he needs to morph into a higher human being to become acceptable level on offense. And since facts already prove he hasn't improved the defensive side either...you get it.

United dominated opponents more back then and created more chances, so there were more scoring opportunities. The most league goals welbeck ever scored for united in a season was 9. I would definitely back Rashford to do a lot better than that in a top team. He is already on course to do better than that in the current team.

Salah turned into a prolific scorer at liverpool, compare his stats at roma with liverpool. So ratios can drastically change when players move clubs, they don't just always remain consistent across the board. It is actually Martial that has been playing through the middle for united when he's fit this season, with rashford playing on the left as a wide player. Rashford has been played out wide for a lot of his time at united, so i'm not sure how fair the comparison even is. Maybe we should be comparing rashford with wide players of the past instead.

Welbeck versus Rashford? You just have to watch the two players side by side, the talent gap is obvious to most people.
Again, you're really just clinging to one tiiiiny bit of what I said avoiding the bigger issue - if Rashford was as good as United fans hype him up there would be no debate. Instead his goalscoring record and impact on the team is no better than your average offensive player.

And no, we shouldn't compare him to wide players since he's played majority of his games in United jersey as a CF.

I don't know who was number one on Jose's list, could been toby, could of been koulibaly, could of been maguire. United were heavily linked to all of them. It doesn't really matter either, the fact is Mourinho wanted Maguire but the club didn't want to pay leicester's asking price at that time. Mourinho has since then made comments explaining why he wanted maguire. So, like i said, mourinho wanted maguire.
So riddle me this please - if United's recruitment strategy has been so good and improved on the past - how come they refused to sign Maguire just a year ago for twice less? How is paying double 'improvement'?

So you were wrong about both ramos and pep, cool.
Whatever helps you sleep. I'm sure Pep is beside himself he missed on such a titan in central defense.
 

Bananaman

New Member
May 14, 2020
44
Ofc they can. That they don't is a byproduct of fans like you gassing up windows like past summer which result in club's worst season in 3 decades then convincing themselves everything is dandy.
I don't think united can just cherry pick world class players like that, it's not so easy. They tried for Ramos but he didn't want to come in the end. If you mean the club needs to do better scouting in order to find better players than i can agree with you there.

And again - they haven't. Every factual information proves they've been worse, let alone better.
I've already addressed this so, no point going over it again.

Yes, fans shouldn't care about how much the club spends. As in worry about finances, player age etc. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp.
If you are factoring the cost of the player into your evaluation of their performances, then you care how much the club has spent on the player, at least to some degree.

I merely said that Smalling-Jones partnership when healthy was much better than a defense led by Maguire. Which is factually correct.
''Smalling-Jones when healthy were miles better than him.''
You did say they were miles better than him, not better than a defence led by him. But if you meant the two of them as a partnership then fine, i'll accept it as a misunderstanding. I still think its mad to put either of them ahead of maguire, but lets just agree to disagree.

He doesn't need to improve, he needs to morph into a higher human being to become acceptable level on offense. And since facts already prove he hasn't improved the defensive side either...you get it.
If you don't think AWB is a defensive improvement on ashley young, dalot etc, ok lets just agree to disagree once again.

Again, you're really just clinging to one tiiiiny bit of what I said avoiding the bigger issue - if Rashford was as good as United fans hype him up there would be no debate. Instead his goalscoring record and impact on the team is no better than your average offensive player.
And no, we shouldn't compare him to wide players since he's played majority of his games in United jersey as a CF.
I don't know if the numbers are 100% accurate but according to https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ he's played 91 senior games in the centre forward position and 86 on the left wing position, so nearly 50-50. Since martial is back now rashford will probably be back playing on the left wing again, so by the end of the season it could be more games in the left wing position than up front. So you are right that he's played more at centre forward, but only by a tiny amount. At least according to that website.

So riddle me this please - if United's recruitment strategy has been so good and improved on the past - how come they refused to sign Maguire just a year ago for twice less? How is paying double 'improvement'?
A year earlier would of been right after the world cup when the hype around maguire was at peak levels, and he was one year into his contract. Seems very unlikely that leicester would of sold for half the price then of all times, if anything they would of been looking to cash in on the hype i would of thought. This article here says that they wanted at least £70 million at that time. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-serious-fight-prise-harry-maguire-leicester/
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,276
The EFL have voted to end League One and League Two early, and final standings are based on point-per-game average.

League 1
C: Coventry (1.97)
P: Rotherham (1.77)
Play-offs: Wycombe (1.74) vs Fleetwood (1.71), Portsmouth (1.71) vs Oxford (1.71)

League 2
C: Swindon (1.92)
P: Crewe (1.86), Plymouth (1.84)
Play-offs: Cheltenham (1.78) vs Northampton (1.57), Exeter (1.76) vs Colchester (1.57)

Obviously I'm delighted for Coventry, who were clearly the best League 1 team this year, and this despite playing their home games in a foreign stadium.

I'd imagine the Championship may well try to get the season running parallel to the PL, but we'll see. Currently Leeds and WBA would go up, but tbh that would be fair as they have a decent lead over the play-off teams.
 

Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,812
Well whatever Sterling said there, to be true or not to be true, i can still say that he would be the first to cry when getting lost in an empty forest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 21)