Movie Talk (New Films, Old Films... doesn't matter) (69 Viewers)

[Völler]

Depends what you consider visual effects, seeing as it's fiction and can't be judge for the lack of "realism".

Early CG and 3D animated effects were cheesy as fuck. That is what didn't age well.

I don't buy the "since it's fiction it can't be judged for the lack of realism" argument. If a film wants to create a whole new world for the viewer to believe in, there must be something we can relate to. Some kind of realism. And if you can't judge the effects based on realism then how can you conclude that "Early CG and 3D animated effects were cheesy as fuck"?

I do agree that early CG looked terrible compared to miniatures though.

Dark Star
Stalker
THX 1138
The Andromeda Strain
Fahrenheit 451

In fact most 60's and 70's sci fi movies looked much better than anything in the 80's, 90's or early 00's.

I haven't watched Dark Star and The Andromeda Strain, but THX 1138 is probably a good example. Stalker does not have any effects, and I don't think Fahrenheit 451, even though I haven't watched it in a long time, has aged particularly well when it comes to special effects.

I think Alien has aged amazingly well - also better than all your examples (the ones I've seen). Except for the computer screens (which are actually early CGI), it's pretty much flawless imo. From the same period, only 2001: A Space Odyssey holds up against it when it comes to visual effects imo.

 

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[Zacheryah]

Thats exactly what i mean.


Most movies from that era when watched today dont feel very realistic, they feel dated and they look "oh 60-70ties SF"

More recent SF movies or games with excellent graphical fidelity usually bring a very believable future setting. I tought Mass Effect for example deals pretty good in that regard.


Thing with Alien is, you never get that "oh its 70ties SF" feeling. It feels a realistic immersive setting even now in 2014.



Just watch the first starwars movie and then the most recent episode 3. You see a huge change in how the setting becomes more and more "believable".



On the other hand, you can watch 4 alien movies in a row, and apart from the alien itself, you barely notice it jumped 25 years.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I don't buy the "since it's fiction it can't be judged for the lack of realism" argument. If a film wants to create a whole new world for the viewer to believe in, there must be something we can relate to. Some kind of realism. And if you can't judge the effects based on realism then how can you conclude that "Early CG and 3D animated effects were cheesy as fuck"?

I do agree that early CG looked terrible compared to miniatures though.



I haven't watched Dark Star and The Andromeda Strain, but THX 1138 is probably a good example. Stalker does not have any effects, and I don't think Fahrenheit 451, even though I haven't watched it in a long time, has aged particularly when it comes to special effects.

I think Alien has aged amazingly well - also better than all your examples (the ones I've seen). Except for the computer screens (which are actually early CGI), it's pretty much flawless imo. From the same period, only 2001: A Space Odyssey holds up against it when it comes to visual effects imo.

Why do we really have to relate? Do we know any other worlds and what they look like? Other species? no. So we don't really know what would be realistic, would we now.

And there's something else to take into consideration, budget. Alien cost 10 times more than Fahrenheit 451 and double that some of the other movies i mentioned. The reason Alien has aged well it's not because of it's special effects but character. It had the right atmosphere, scenario and concept. The works.

Saying something "aged well" in this case is not referring to top notch SE (for it's time) but how well orchestrated the whole concept was, from clothing to how the background looked. Pre-CGI Sci-fi movies in general had character. Something those 3D Effects in the 80's and 90's lacked.

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Thats exactly what i mean.


Most movies from that era when watched today dont feel very realistic, they feel dated and they look "oh 60-70ties SF"

More recent SF movies or games with excellent graphical fidelity usually bring a very believable future setting. I tought Mass Effect for example deals pretty good in that regard.


Thing with Alien is, you never get that "oh its 70ties SF" feeling. It feels a realistic immersive setting even now in 2014.



Just watch the first starwars movie and then the most recent episode 3. You see a huge change in how the setting becomes more and more "believable".



On the other hand, you can watch 4 alien movies in a row, and apart from the alien itself, you barely notice it jumped 25 years.

Get Alien Isolation asap. It's so faithful to the first movie it's scary. I'm sure you'll find it for a good price by now.

 

[Post Ironic]

Huh? Apart from Metropolis era, the Sci-fi golden age was in the 60's and 70's.

 

[Salvo]

Alien isolation is great.


I watched moneyball, I really liked it.

 

[Stevie]

Just watched Enemy i loved it but seriously wdf did i just watch?

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Snowpiercer - Damn, this one surprised me, it was really good. I enjoyed it, pretty great movie

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Wtf, why was it shit? It was a pure mind fuck. People don't understand so they hate it

Please give me your thoughts on this im so mind fucked right now.

edit: i get it now and feel this movie is a masterpiece.

 

[Nzoric]

ahem http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/2...sn-t-matter)?p=3868703&viewfull=1#post3868703

More than two years and two viewings ago. But nice find

 

[swag]

I saw it (Redirected) tonight. I think it tried too hard to be the Lithuanian-British version of The Hangover combined with Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Mindless entertainment, and at least it didn't run much past 90 minutes. But I wouldn't call it "boring" per se.

I'd be curious what our Lietuvos broliai here might say about it...

 

[blondu]

Should i watch space odyssey? Never seen it.

 

[Dostoevsky]

So I watched Prometheus last night. If anything, judging by some comments (and even imdb rating), I'd say that movie is underrated. I enjoyed it, thought it was pretty solid I think I'd give it 7.5/10.

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Please give me your thoughts on this im so mind fucked right now.

edit: i get it now and feel this movie is a masterpiece.

I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's surely a great movie in my books.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Should i watch space odyssey? Never seen it.

This question would be the same as "I'm thirsty, should i drink water?"

 

[Martin]

This question would be the same as "I'm thirsty, should i drink water?"

and the answer?

 

[blondu]

This question would be the same as "I'm thirsty, should i drink water?"

on it ! grazie

 

[CrimsonianKing]

and the answer?

:sarcasm:

 

[Völler]

Why do we really have to relate? Do we know any other worlds and what they look like? Other species? no. So we don't really know what would be realistic, would we now.

I'm not talking about what's scientifically possible, but what a storyteller does to capture the audience's attention. I get what you're saying, but to me it's a lame excuse that could justify all bad sci-fi. If your argument is valid, then how can you say early CG is looking terrible? Maybe what you thought was bad CG is really what the other world is supposed to look like? Giving the unrealistic some realistic features is what makes it relatable imo.

And there's something else to take into consideration, budget. Alien cost 10 times more than Fahrenheit 451 and double that some of the other movies i mentioned. The reason Alien has aged well it's not because of it's special effects but character. It had the right atmosphere, scenario and concept. The works.

Saying something "aged well" in this case is not referring to top notch SE (for it's time) but how well orchestrated the whole concept was, from clothing to how the background looked. Pre-CGI Sci-fi movies in general had character. Something those 3D Effects in the 80's and 90's lacked.

I'm not saying "aged well" only refers to special effects. But in this case we were discussing special effects. And in that regard, I'm simply saying that Alien, maybe because of the budget, has aged better than almost everything else from the same period.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I'm not talking about what's scientifically possible, but what a storyteller does to capture the audience's attention. I get what you're saying, but to me it's a lame excuse that could justify all bad sci-fi. If your argument is valid, then how can you say early CG is looking terrible? Maybe what you thought was bad CG is really what the other world is supposed to look like? Giving the unrealistic some realistic features is what makes it relatable imo.



I'm not saying "aged well" only refers to special effects. But in this case we were discussing special effects. And in that regard, I'm simply saying that Alien, maybe because of the budget, has aged better than almost everything else from the same period.

My first point was that before everything was made by hand, the scenery, settings and everything. The first computer generated effects were horrible because technology is an ever improving thing. And the thing about older Sci-fi is that the ideas were there.

It's like @PostIronic and I discussed once, there was something in the water then. Call it hallucinogenic drugs, the moon landing or whatever, in that time period and that time period alone people in art were open to ideas we've had never thought before and probably wont again. Even the somewhat bad-looking Sci-fi movies of the era had character and such unparalleled imagination. Nowadays there's nothing that even tries to think outside the box in the genre, it's action minded, explosions and CGI. Bear in mind i haven't watched Interstellar yet.

And yes, for the reason, Alien is a sci-fi masterpiece.

 

[Stevie]

So I watched Prometheus last night. If anything, judging by some comments (and even imdb rating), I'd say that movie is underrated. I enjoyed it, thought it was pretty solid I think I'd give it 7.5/10.

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I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's surely a great movie in my books.

I dont mean in terms of a movie like it wouldnt be anywhere near my top 20 favourite movies i just really appreciate the artistic style of it. Ive seen so many arty farty films that are just pretencious and boring but this film really pulled it off with its subliminal messages and symbols.

 

[Dostoevsky]

I dont mean in terms of a movie like it wouldnt be anywhere near my top 20 favourite movies i just really appreciate the artistic style of it. Ive seen so many arty farty films that are just pretencious and boring but this film really pulled it off with its subliminal messages and symbols.

no doubt about that.

 

[Nicholas]

Exodus - Gods and Kings =

 

[Völler]

My first point was that before everything was made by hand, the scenery, settings and everything. The first computer generated effects were horrible because technology is an ever improving thing. And the thing about older Sci-fi is that the ideas were there.

But it's not like miniatures were perfected in the 70's. The models only improved, and the bigatures in Lord of the Rings looks much more convincing compared to a lot of miniatures from the 70's.

It's like @PostIronic and I discussed once, there was something in the water then. Call it hallucinogenic drugs, the moon landing or whatever, in that time period and that time period alone people in art were open to ideas we've had never thought before and probably wont again. Even the somewhat bad-looking Sci-fi movies of the era had character and such unparalleled imagination. Nowadays there's nothing that even tries to think outside the box in the genre, it's action minded, explosions and CGI. Bear in mind i haven't watched Interstellar yet.

It's not that there was something in the water. A big part of it is the Hollywood studio system failing in the early 60's and as a result giving directors more creative freedom in the late 60's and 70's. Furthermore you get new tax laws making it more profitable to invest in films. Without those laws films like Taxi Driver and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest probably never would have been made.

At the same Hollywood finally got the younger audience to go to the movies again with relatively cheap movies like Easy Rider and The Graduate. Likewise the hippies loved 2001: A Space Odyssey because of the visuals. And once you have a genre hit, other films in the genre are sure to follow. The directors of the 70's just had a lot more creative freedom compared to now. Unfortunately, films like Heaven's Gate proved that creative freedom could result in a catastrophe, and at the same time movies like Jaws and Star Wars proved to be recipes for box office hits. And gone is the creative freedom of the 70's. It's not that the filmmakers of today lack imagination, they just don't have the freedom to do what they want.