Massimiliano Allegri (234 Viewers)

[pavelnel]

How can you question the tatical experts here? I am wondering how Allegri with these outdated tactics became the only manager to win four consecutive domestic double in Europe.

Allegri had by far the best squad in Italy back then.
In the past 3-4 years we have seen the Italian football change, following the example of the European football. Atalanta were the first with their high tempo, intensive pressing and many other teams followed.
So far it seems Allegri is completely incapable of countering the modern approach with his outdated philosophy.

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[Post Ironic]

Just saw the highlights of the Spurs-City game. So the winner was basically set up by Bentancur and Kulu..

It seems young players leave Juve to get better at other teams.

Cancelo has been a resounding success at City. Demiral doing well at Atalanta. Kulu and Benta got off to a good start(hopefully it continues)

This isn't exactly related to our performance against Torino but maybe we need to stop singling out our players all the time?

It's hard to point out the exact problem but it seems there is a toxic environment at the club kinda like Inter back in the day who used to make fancy signings but still sucked on the pitch.

Something's got to drastically change. I just don't think our squad is half bad like some like to point out, constantly demonizing our players for bad results.

This team is in a real need of a kick up the ass. Whether it's Allegri, Agnelli or Bini, things will have to change pretty fast.

Benta maybe. Spurs fans been calling Kulu rubbish for his first three appearances there. Having one good match where he scored on an empty net and set up a winner doesn’t make him some top young player all of a sudden. He still has all the same issues. Unbelievably slow player, can’t dribble, poor decision making with his final ball, isn’t a particularly good finisher.

Talk about a knee jerk reaction based off a single good performance.

 

[singus]

One can always be wrong but pointing towards Allegri here is either a kneejerk reaction or very sarcastic.

Yes, the past years (4 - 4,5 years now) have shown it very obviously imo. All problems remained with any coach. Also the reason Cristiano ran away when he didn't see quality transfers incoming.

Looking at the present is exacly what I'm doing instead of the oldest trick in the book and pointing towards the coach. Hint: it's an awful squad that needs (further) correcting.

Super weak answers.

"One can always be wrong but pointing towards Allegri here is either a kneejerk reaction or very sarcastic"
You can be wrong, but still, not following your head means its kneejerk reaction. lolz

"All problems remained with any coach"
So you are saying that Pirlo (who was not even a coach) and Sarri, represents "any coach" ? lolz again. This is the most used argument by the throaters. Even a bum like Sarri managed to take us to the Scudetto. And everyone hates Sarri. But now Sarri and Pirlo represents the best of the best and an example that changing coach wouldnt help.

 

[Xperd]

One can always be wrong but pointing towards Allegri here is either a kneejerk reaction or very sarcastic.

Yes, the past years (4 - 4,5 years now) have shown it very obviously imo. All problems remained with any coach. Also the reason Cristiano ran away when he didn't see quality transfers incoming.

Looking at the present is exacly what I'm doing instead of the oldest trick in the book and pointing towards the coach. Hint: it's an awful squad that needs (further) correcting.

Ofcourse this squad needs correcting but can you point out the WC players in Milan's and Napoli's squad that has left us so far behind them?
With Pirlo, there was an obvious excuse. We hired him before he could even get his coaching license.

Is it wrong to expect better results from an accomplished coach like Allegri who has a proven track record of delivering results?

Or are we going to hold Allegri to the same standards as Pirlo?

I am not the one calling to replace Allegri but for how long are we going to crucify our players and use that as an excuse? Players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.. Maybe it's not always 'the player problem' you know.

- - - Updated - - -

Benta maybe. Spurs fans been calling Kulu rubbish for his first three appearances there. Having one good match where he scored on an empty net and set up a winner doesn’t make him some top young player all of a sudden. He still has all the same issues. Unbelievably slow player, can’t dribble, poor decision making with his final ball, isn’t a particularly good finisher.

Talk about a knee jerk reaction based off a single good performance.

I dint call Kulu a top talent. Don't put words into my mouth.
But this whole idea of 'our players are terrible and they are the biggest problem' is misguided and misplaced.
There is no middle ground here when it comes judging our squad.

 

[Cerval]

Ofcourse this squad needs correcting but can you point out the WC players in Milan's and Napoli's squad that has left us so far behind them?
With Pirlo, there was an obvious excuse. We hired him before he could even get his coaching license.

Is it wrong to expect better results from an accomplished coach like Allegri who has a proven track record of delivering results?

Or are we going to hold Allegri to the same standards as Pirlo?

I am not the one calling to replace Allegri but for how long are we going to crucify our players and use that as an excuse? Players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.. Maybe it's not always 'the player problem' you know.

- - - Updated - - -


I dint call Kulu a top talent. Don't put words into my mouth.
But this whole idea of 'our players are terrible and they are the biggest problem' is misguided and misplaced.
There is no middle ground here when it comes judging our squad.

Can't it be both the fault of the coach and our players? They're not mutually exclusive. One good game from Kulu after being dubbed Kuluslowski changes everything in the mind of people here. Next thing we'll be led to believe Bentancur is the new Zidane.

 

[Dostoevsky]

There's no way Kulusevski will succeed in England. Bentancur might be good enough for a rotational type of a player, though.

 

[IlCapitano]

Allegri has been plain, flat out, bad this year.there is not two ways about it.

And yet on the list of a 100 Juve problems he is on the outside looking in, IMO.

This team is not BAD, this team is not less talented than Napoli or Atalanta or even Milan.

But this team:

- has been coached by two clowns who destroyed it from a mental and tactical POV
- has major flaws in it's construction
- has a lot of talented but overpaid individuals who do not care much for fighting when the going gets tough. Proven by the fact we have been absolutely ass raped by anyone who managed to score a goal against us. I cannot remember a game this year where we played well after conceding a goal. It is just an avalanche
- lost it's two best players from last season without either being replaced


Sure, some of this is on the coach and especially one of Allegri's class should improve these things, that is why I said he has been bad this season, but at what point is the coaching stuff just a non starter?

- He is a proven top class manager and should be trusted until he does this season with a title team. Idc about top 4 and anything else, give him a title team this summer and then we can talk
- Pep, Zidane etc. are simply not coming here. Never, forget about it
- An unproven coach again (young or old) is a non-starter, fuck that

 

[Post Ironic]

Ofcourse this squad needs correcting but can you point out the WC players in Milan's and Napoli's squad that has left us so far behind them?
With Pirlo, there was an obvious excuse. We hired him before he could even get his coaching license.

Is it wrong to expect better results from an accomplished coach like Allegri who has a proven track record of delivering results?

Or are we going to hold Allegri to the same standards as Pirlo?

I am not the one calling to replace Allegri but for how long are we going to crucify our players and use that as an excuse? Players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.. Maybe it's not always 'the player problem' you know.

- - - Updated - - -


I dint call Kulu a top talent. Don't put words into my mouth.
But this whole idea of 'our players are terrible and they are the biggest problem' is misguided and misplaced.
There is no middle ground here when it comes judging our squad.

You literally said “players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.” Aside from Cancelo who was actually quite good for much of his time and was sold more for attitude issues, who are all these players leaving to get better? Bentancur and Kulu are four matches into their time at Spurs and Bentancur certainly hasn’t been better than he was under Max in the past or under Sarri. And Kulu had one good match in 4 appearances, he had the occasional good performance here too. So who are these players? Lemina? Bobby P? Moise Kean at Everton? Dougie C? Ogbonna? Sturaro? Frabotta? Etc etc… Is Bernadeschi gonna be a top class player if he leaves? MdS? Pellegrini? Rabiot?

Our players aren’t shit, but a lot of them are not up to snuff in terms of being juventus starting XI quality. Vlahovic, Dybala (when not injured), De Ligt, Bonucci (when he gets serious), Danilo, Cuadrado, Locatelli, Chiesa are about it. We’re lacking two starting XI caliber mids, a starting LB, and a keeper. Zakarias, Mckennie, MdS, Bernie, Morty players worth our bench. Team is just missing some key ingredients, but I think everyone thinks we should be doing better, no doubt about it. Our defensive woes have been mostly sorted. Time to sort out the attack over these last couple months.

 

[Robee]

Ofcourse this squad needs correcting but can you point out the WC players in Milan's and Napoli's squad that has left us so far behind them?
With Pirlo, there was an obvious excuse. We hired him before he could even get his coaching license.

Is it wrong to expect better results from an accomplished coach like Allegri who has a proven track record of delivering results?

Or are we going to hold Allegri to the same standards as Pirlo?

I am not the one calling to replace Allegri but for how long are we going to crucify our players and use that as an excuse? Players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.. Maybe it's not always 'the player problem' you know.

I'm not saying Allegri is faultless here. Far from it.

But what people tend to forget easily is Pioli has been working for a few years on this squad while Napoli's team hasn't gone through many changes for years now. Our management and team has been on a rollercoaster for years now, trying to buy galacticos and implementing tiki-taka and all the way back. We're finally seeing progression (albeit only a defensively for now), now stick with it and give the process time.

Another thing spiralling down from this is the huge incomplementary in this team. We have quality players to play formation X, but not the necessary midfielders as an understudy and the other way around. It's like trying a square peg in a round hole. That needs fixing first and foremost. So I'm NOT calling out individuals. I'm calling out the squad as a whole.

I still hope and think Allegri will deliver us the 4th spot.

 

[Tactical Potato]

I wouldn't fully blame the coaches for our decline. I'd blame the management for not embracing the fact that every coach has his own tactical philosophy and you have to support it by getting the right players for it.

Just like Marotta fully adopted Conte's 3-5-2, Milan brought players for Pioli's attacking 4-2-3-1 or Atalanta with 3-4-2-1. Their players suit the system and they execute their styles with fluidity.

Sarri had to deploy Bernardeschi as a trequartista or play Matuidi and Khedira which doesn't suit his possession style of play. We barely saw glimpses of his philosophy because the players had a poor first touch and weren't capable playing narrow in tight spaces.

There's a reason why Max demanded to be involved in the transfer market this time. Obviously he wants to choose the players that would suit his style of play instead of leaving the team planning to the technical directors.

It's the poor team planning over the years that massacred our team. Playing without playmakers, no wing support, injury prone players, players that fit different styles, etc.

 

[Robee]

Super weak answers.

"One can always be wrong but pointing towards Allegri here is either a kneejerk reaction or very sarcastic"
You can be wrong, but still, not following your head means its kneejerk reaction. lolz

"All problems remained with any coach"
So you are saying that Pirlo (who was not even a coach) and Sarri, represents "any coach" ? lolz again. This is the most used argument by the throaters. Even a bum like Sarri managed to take us to the Scudetto. And everyone hates Sarri. But now Sarri and Pirlo represents the best of the best and an example that changing coach wouldnt help.

Anyone can be wrong. That's why I said 'imo' smartie.

Any coach, as in 'after THREE coaching changes'. Clutching at straws here?

Our team with Sarri was much much better and experienced. There's no comparing.

 

[Xperd]

Can't it be both the fault of the coach and our players? They're not mutually exclusive. One good game from Kulu after being dubbed Kuluslowski changes everything in the mind of people here. Next thing we'll be led to believe Bentancur is the new Zidane.

And when did I deny they're not mutually exclusive? It's like some people get offended at any criticism directed at Allegri to the point that players get unceremoniously bashed and cop the entire blame.

Kulu and Benta are not top players but maybe they're not as bad as we think they are. Demiral isn't doing half bad for Atalanta is he? Maybe Kean who looks out of his depth here could be better elsewhere idk.

All that said, in my opinion, this squad is a good squad for Serie A level. I believe mentally the players are lost, they look confused. They don't look motivated or play with an intensity we expect, atleast consistently. This is on Allegri to fix things. As I said, this team needs a real kick up the ass.

Overhauling the squad isn't always the solution. Just ask Man United.

With 1 or 2 quality additions, this team should be challenging for the title again.

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I'm not saying Allegri is faultless here. Far from it.

But what people tend to forget easily is Pioli has been working for a few years on this squad while Napoli's team hasn't gone through many changes for years now. Our management and team has been on a rollercoaster for years now, trying to buy galacticos and implementing tiki-taka and all the way back. We're finally seeing progression (albeit only a defensively for now), now stick with it and give the process time.

Another thing spiralling down from this is the huge incomplementary in this team. We have quality players to play formation X, but not the necessary midfielders as an understudy and the other way around. It's like trying a square peg in a round hole. That needs fixing first and foremost. So I'm NOT calling out individuals. I'm calling out the squad as a whole.

I still hope and think Allegri will deliver us the 4th spot.

Fully agree that we need continuity. I believe Allegri deserves another year here.

 

[Inglip]

There's a reason why Max demanded to be involved in the transfer market this time. Obviously he wants to choose the players that would suit his style of play instead of leaving the team planning to the technical directors.

What is Max style? Because no matter the players he would always defend after gaining a lead.

 

[Xperd]

You literally said “players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.” Aside from Cancelo who was actually quite good for much of his time and was sold more for attitude issues, who are all these players leaving to get better? Bentancur and Kulu are four matches into their time at Spurs and Bentancur certainly hasn’t been better than he was under Max in the past or under Sarri. And Kulu had one good match in 4 appearances, he had the occasional good performance here too. So who are these players? Lemina? Bobby P? Moise Kean at Everton? Dougie C? Ogbonna? Sturaro? Frabotta? Etc etc… Is Bernadeschi gonna be a top class player if he leaves? MdS? Pellegrini? Rabiot?

Our players aren’t shit, but a lot of them are not up to snuff in terms of being juventus starting XI quality. Vlahovic, Dybala (when not injured), De Ligt, Bonucci (when he gets serious), Danilo, Cuadrado, Locatelli, Chiesa are about it. We’re lacking two starting XI caliber mids, a starting LB, and a keeper. Zakarias, Mckennie, MdS, Bernie, Morty players worth our bench. Team is just missing some key ingredients, but I think everyone thinks we should be doing better, no doubt about it. Our defensive woes have been mostly sorted. Time to sort out the attack over these last couple months.

Very cheeky of you to include Sturaro's and Lemina's to make a point.

So what do you think, is this current team with 1 or 2 additions good enough for challenging the title next season? Or are we still behind Milan, Napoli and Inter? Especially the latter who just like us, sold two of their key players this season..
Whilst the former regularly fields geriatric players or players that I've not even heard of.

 

[Robee]

What is Max style? Because no matter the players he would always defend after gaining a lead.

Some people really have a short memory. His first years at Juve, we played some of the best football in decades for Juve. But we had quality all around.

 

[Tactical Potato]

What is Max style? Because no matter the players he would always defend after gaining a lead.

Well, he keeps saying the word "Balance" a lot in his interviews. From reading between the lines, he prefers a catious approach to all games - Don't attack with more than 3 players in the box and everyone has to defend.

His first priority was fixing the defense so far. Yes, he solidified it but on the expense of limiting our attacking potential - 38 goals scored, 23 conceded.

I don't think he identifies himseld with a certain tactic. He took over Conte's 3-5-2, then played 4-3-1-2, 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. Now we see a mix between 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 which sometimes transforms into 3-5-2 when attacking/defending.

Sometimes I wish to see Allegri at a team like City or PSG without any spending limits just to see what type of tactic he would create when he doesn't have to fix any holes in the team. I want to see Allegri's potential when he's unchained.

 

[Gigiventus]

Ofcourse this squad needs correcting but can you point out the WC players in Milan's and Napoli's squad that has left us so far behind them?
With Pirlo, there was an obvious excuse. We hired him before he could even get his coaching license.

Is it wrong to expect better results from an accomplished coach like Allegri who has a proven track record of delivering results?

Or are we going to hold Allegri to the same standards as Pirlo?

I am not the one calling to replace Allegri but for how long are we going to crucify our players and use that as an excuse? Players are leaving Juventus to get better elsewhere.. Maybe it's not always 'the player problem' you know.

- - - Updated - - -


I dint call Kulu a top talent. Don't put words into my mouth.
But this whole idea of 'our players are terrible and they are the biggest problem' is misguided and misplaced.
There is no middle ground here when it comes judging our squad.

It is not about the WC players Napoli and Milan have, its about squad building.

Milan and Napoli have teams built coherently, players fit each other and the coach.

Everyone knows that Spalletti plays a 4231, and Napoli's squad is perfect for a 4231. Remove Anguissa for Zakaria, or Fabian for Locatelli, or Osimhen for Vlahovic, and it will work and these players will shine. There is an environment that will allow players to come in and succeed in defined roles. This is also why Lozano had such a difficult time, he didn't fit Napoli tactically. Adaptation took a long time then.

it's the same at Milan and Pioli has a couple of years head start of coaching this team.

Is our best setup a 433 or a 352? Or a 442, 4231, 4312... who knows. None of the actually fit because we have players that don't fit. We have 4 CFs, 1 LW, 2 RW, and until recently 3 midfielders that play the same role (Locatelli, Rabiot, Bentancur), etc.

Its the same problem Roma has. They switch formations every month. Mourinho has played variations of the 4231 his whole career yet at Roma he is trying all sorts of weird stuff because his players dont fit.

A player like Rabiot, Arthur, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Morata can fit a well functioning team and succeed. But they can't all be there together and play at the level we want.

 

[singus]

Well, he keeps saying the word "Balance" a lot in his interviews. From reading between the lines, he prefers a catious approach to all games - Don't attack with more than 3 players in the box and everyone has to defend.

His first priority was fixing the defense so far. Yes, he solidified it but on the expense of limiting our attacking potential - 38 goals scored, 23 conceded.

I don't think he identifies himseld with a certain tactic. He took over Conte's 3-5-2, then played 4-3-1-2, 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. Now we see a mix between 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 which sometimes transforms into 3-5-2 when attacking/defending.

Sometimes I wish to see Allegri at a team like City or PSG without any spending limits just to see what type of tactic he would create when he doesn't have to fix any holes in the team. I want to see Allegri's potential when he's unchained.

I really was hoping that someone overseas wanted to hire him, but I think he knows his limits and prefers the comfort-zone and untouchable status at home in Italy.
If he coached a team like City or Real, he would risk getting massacred by their fans within months. I dont think we will ever see Allegri in a top job outside of Italy for those reasons. I would be surprised and respect him if he went for it.

In terms of style of play, he doesnt really know it himself nor care. He has previously uttered that he rarely prepares for an opponent, he believes he has a god-given intuition for tactics, and solutions tend to flow to him naturally, compared to other coaches.

What we do know about his style from observing:
- Change of formation and lineup for every game
- Tall players are good players
- Attacks and goals are a given, therefor no particular priority, attacking duo will figure it out.
- Use Bonucci and Chiellini as playmakers if possible
- Give the ball to Cuadrado and pray
- Spamming of crosses to Dybala or whoever is in the box, it doesnt really matter, its a numbers game

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I really was hoping that someone overseas wanted to hire him, but I think he knows his limits and prefers the comfort-zone and untouchable status at home in Italy.
If he coached a team like City or Real, he would risk getting massacred by their fans within months. I dont think we will ever see Allegri in a top job outside of Italy for those reasons. I would be surprised and respect him if he went for it.

In terms of style of play, he doesnt really know it himself nor care. He has previously uttered that he rarely prepares for an opponent, he believes he has a god-given intuition for tactics, and solutions tend to flow to him naturally, compared to other coaches.

What we do know about his style from observing:
- Change of formation and lineup for every game
- Tall players are good players
- Attacks and goals are a given, therefor no particular priority, attacking duo will figure it out.
- Use Bonucci and Chiellini as playmakers if possible
- Give the ball to Cuadrado and pray
- Spamming of crosses to Dybala or whoever is in the box, it doesnt really matter, its a numbers game

That's probably why he rejected the real Madrid job and signed for Juve. Clearly allegri takes us for mugs

 

[juve123]

I really was hoping that someone overseas wanted to hire him, but I think he knows his limits and prefers the comfort-zone and untouchable status at home in Italy.
If he coached a team like City or Real, he would risk getting massacred by their fans within months. I dont think we will ever see Allegri in a top job outside of Italy for those reasons. I would be surprised and respect him if he went for it.

In terms of style of play, he doesnt really know it himself nor care. He has previously uttered that he rarely prepares for an opponent, he believes he has a god-given intuition for tactics, and solutions tend to flow to him naturally, compared to other coaches.

What we do know about his style from observing:
- Change of formation and lineup for every game
- Tall players are good players
- Attacks and goals are a given, therefor no particular priority, attacking duo will figure it out.
- Use Bonucci and Chiellini as playmakers if possible
- Give the ball to Cuadrado and pray
- Spamming of crosses to Dybala or whoever is in the box, it doesnt really matter, its a numbers game

How he became the only manager to win four consecutive domestic double in Europe? When people here have more tatical knowledge than him is beyond me.