La Liga 2020-21 (20 Viewers)

[Cerval]

Shit teams are shit teams, no one cares about those. The level of the top teams is more important. Also Europe is mostly a cup competition (apart from group stage) and is more likely to show current level/form than consistency over a entire season. The only other way is looking at when the teams from the same country meet in a group stage, but even that is too little of a sample size. Anyway, it's a fact that we have it much tougher than Real or Barcelona to win the title this season (inter at 90+) as well as finishing in the top4 (5 teams with potentially 78+). Our level of competition this year was higher than theirs. Also you're comparing their strongest clubs to Atalanta, it should be us inter and Milan, and then it's much closer when all are at their best. Then you have Atalanta, Napoli and Lazio vs whoever else you want on the other side. But that's not the point, strength in a head to head is one thing, keeping a level of play over a entire season is something else. And Serie A best clubs have had a better season (apart from us who are underperforming slightly)

Drop it, there are a lot more variables to it. If a league is more balanced in terms of quality, there is going to be more points lost and more teams involved across the board

Serie A is definitely shittier than La Liga. I mean THIS Juve has 75 points

 

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[il brutto]

Shit teams are shit teams, no one cares about those. The level of the top teams is more important. Also Europe is mostly a cup competition (apart from group stage) and is more likely to show current level/form than consistency over a entire season. The only other way is looking at when the teams from the same country meet in a group stage, but even that is too little of a sample size. Anyway, it's a fact that we have it much tougher than Real or Barcelona to win the title this season (inter at 90+) as well as finishing in the top4 (5 teams with potentially 78+). Our level of competition this year was higher than theirs. Also you're comparing their strongest clubs to Atalanta, it should be us inter and Milan, and then it's much closer when all are at their best. Then you have Atalanta, Napoli and Lazio vs whoever else you want on the other side. But that's not the point, strength in a head to head is one thing, keeping a level of play over a entire season is something else. And Serie A best clubs have had a better season (apart from us who are underperforming slightly)

Atalanta have been stronger than us this season, if I have us instead of them in that comparison then the gap only widens.

Again you can't make such conclusions based on simple point totals. I think the most objective (the least shitty) measure is the UEFA coefficient but even it doesn't tell you much about the overall level of the league because it doesn't tell anything about the quality of the mid to lower table teams. Basically you're trying to objectively measure something that simply can't be objectively measured.

 

[zizinho]

Drop it, there are a lot more variables to it. If a league is more balanced in terms of quality, there is going to be more points lost and more teams involved across the board

Serie A is definitely shittier than La Liga. I mean THIS Juve has 75 points

This Juve had 83 pts last season, difference is no one was close to this season inter and now you have one more club at the top in Milan. Last season La Liga had the top clubs even further apart, you call that balance? If anything Serie A is the more balanced league as there is less a gap between the top and mid level clubs.

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Atalanta have been stronger than us this season, if I have us instead of them in that comparison then the gap only widens.

Again you can't make such conclusions based on simple point totals. I think the most objective (the least shitty) measure is the UEFA coefficient but even it doesn't tell you much about the overall level of the league because it doesn't tell anything about the quality of the mid to lower table teams. Basically you're trying to objectively measure something that simply can't be objectively measured.

Again, that's all you have. This is the level of teams we are dealing with this season. And that is the level of teams barcelona is dealing with this season. They would struggle as much as we are to make CL if there was a Bilbao or a Sociedad pushing for mid 70pts along with them and Sevilla. But they have less such teams THIS season. Doesn't mean Sevilla are weaker than Napoli now, over the past x years or as a club in general. We are talking about strictly this season, and the number and level of the competitive clubs

 

[il brutto]

Again, that's all you have. This is the level of teams we are dealing with this season. And that is the level of teams barcelona is dealing with this season. They would struggle as much as we are to make CL if there was a Bilbao or a Sociedad pushing for mid 70pts along with them and Sevilla. But they have less such teams THIS season. Doesn't mean Sevilla are weaker than Napoli now, over the past x years or as a club in general. We are talking about strictly this season, and the number and level of the competitive clubs

That's not really convincing reasoning for it's use now is it? Even if it was all we have (it's not) it doesn't really tell us anything about the quality of the leagues we are comparing.

Or perhaps I'm just too dense to get how this sophisticated method actually works and how it produces watertight conclusions about the level of the leagues we are comparing.

 

[zizinho]

That's not really convincing reasoning for it's use now is it? Even if it was all we have (it's not) it doesn't really tell us anything about the quality of the leagues we are comparing.

Or perhaps I'm just too dense to get how this sophisticated method actually works and how it produces watertight conclusions about the level of the leagues we are comparing.

It's not that complicated. You need 89pts as of now to lead Serie A (or one less, with better h2h), you need 82 for La Liga. You need 77 for CL in Serie A, you need 75 in La Liga. You need 71 for EL (Lazio has 67 but a game in hand) in Serie A and 59 in La Liga. I make no distinction between a Cagliari or Getafe, Fiorentina or Valencia and Sassuolo or Celta. Clubs like Juve and Barca should be winning points off them with regularity. One might say the Spanish small clubs are better based on some criteria, but I can also say the Italian clubs are more difficult to play and get points against, because they focus more on defending, close down the space and slow down the tempo. Either way, those aren't the clubs that make a difference in terms of strength of a league.

I guess that's the best way to explain it. If inter wins 91 points, that means they have set the ladder so high you have to win consistently if you want to keep up, and your margin of error is minimal. They have been the most consistent team over the course of the year, not necessarily best as we have beat them in a h2h cup tie. But a league is more ahout consistency. If Milan/Atalanta/Napoli wins 78/76pts, that means they will fight for CL until the very end of the season, and won't let you drop your level/relax until the season is over. Same for Lazio behind us who were in CL contention until recently as well. In La Liga it was less so this season. If this was MSN Barca, they would have won already weeks ago. If this was Allegris Juve, it would probably come down to this very Juve-inter fixture

 

[il brutto]

It's not that complicated. You need 89pts as of now to lead Serie A (or one less, with better h2h), you need 82 for La Liga. You need 77 for CL in Serie A, you need 75 in La Liga. You need 71 for EL (Lazio has 67 but a game in hand) in Serie A and 59 in La Liga. I make no distinction between a Cagliari or Getafe, Fiorentina or Valencia and Sassuolo or Celta. Clubs like Juve and Barca should be winning points off them with regularity. One might say the Spanish small clubs are better based on some criteria, but I can also say the Italian clubs are more difficult to play and get points against, because they focus more on defending, close down the space and slow down the tempo. Either way, those aren't the clubs that make a difference in terms of strength of a league.

I guess that's the best way to explain it. If inter wins 91 points, that means they have set the ladder so high you have to win consistently if you want to keep up, and your margin of error is minimal. They have been the most consistent team over the course of the year, not necessarily best as we have beat them in a h2h cup tie. But a league is more ahout consistency. If Milan/Atalanta/Napoli wins 78/76pts, that means they will fight for CL until the very end of the season, and won't let you drop your level/relax until the season is over. Same for Lazio behind us who were in CL contention until recently as well. In La Liga it was less so this season. If this was MSN Barca, they would have won already weeks ago. If this was Allegris Juve, it would probably come down to this very Juve-inter fixture

Zizi I'll give you points for the effort but it just doesn't work that way. By your criteria Serie A is also quite a bit stronger than the Premier league, I think we both know that isn't true. You really need to bury this method of yours and come up with a better one, this one isn't working.

 

[zizinho]

Zizi I'll give you points for the effort but it just doesn't work that way. By your criteria Serie A is also quite a bit stronger than the Premier league, I think we both know that isn't true. You really need to bury this method of yours and come up with a better one, this one isn't working.

I wanna say yes
But I don't want to write another 10 long posts about it...

So I retreat to the Pogba thread

 

[il brutto]

I wanna say yes
But I don't want to write another 10 long posts about it...

So I retreat to the Pogba thread

Don't think I could've read 10 long posts about Serie A > EPL so thank you for that

Anyways Pogba thread is a nice place, definitely a good place to spent some quality time. He plays in the best league after all

 

[zizinho]

Anyways Pogba thread is a nice place, definitely a good place to spent some quality time. He plays in the best league after all

Save this post for after the next mercato

 

[Osman]

I hope you were just trolling with all this zizinho.

 

[zizinho]

Why would I be trolling when I'm right?

 

[Fred]

@zizinho, Are you completely dismissing the possibility that Inter got that many points because its easier to do it in Italy than in Spain or England?

I think this points total argument is too simplistic. Inter will probably end the season on 91 points. Allegri's Juve which was one of the best teams in Europe at the time averaged around that points total. Are you saying this Inter Milan team that couldnt get past the CL group stage is as good as them?

Man City who are probably the best team in Europe this season won't get 91 points, are they not as good as this Inter team?

 

[rainhard]

I wanna say yes
But I don't want to write another 10 long posts about it...

So I retreat to the Pogba thread

I can give 1 authentic prove for that
As long as Ranieri still not winning the Serie A then Serie A is >>> EPL

Because he already conquered the EPL

 

[zizinho]

What a wild season that was

 

[JuvePerSempre10]

Atletico and Real trailing, what a wild season in Spain this has been. Must also be said, the technical level of some of these smaller teams is very impressive, especially if you compare it to the butcher teams in the Serie A such as Benevento, Spezia and Crotone.

 

[Cerval]

What a wild season that was

I watched more football during that time and since my brother is a Real Madrid's fan I watched most of their matches that season

Was great for neutral, still remember that Reyes goal that invalidated Barca's demolition in their last game

 

[Gian]

Atletico and Real trailing, what a wild season in Spain this has been. Must also be said, the technical level of some of these smaller teams is very impressive, especially if you compare it to the butcher teams in the Serie A such as Benevento, Spezia and Crotone.

That sure is true, teams like Villareal, Sevilla and AM are also relevant in the EL unlike Italians

I’m expecting Atletico to choke today and RM scoring two goals at the end

 

[Osman]

Benzema woke up and scored for his team, tho VAR will prolly take it away for offside.

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Nevermind, its called off by VAR.

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Same time Atletico score and make it 1-1 in their game.

 

[zizinho]

I watched more football during that time and since my brother is a Real Madrid's fan I watched most of their matches that season

Was great for neutral, still remember that Reyes goal that invalidated Barca's demolition in their last game

Yeah, last match day was also great, Real 1-1 well into the 2nd half at home, while Barca were up comfortably (5-1 or something like that). Reyes goal was the culmination of a iconic season

Also watched a lot games that season. We were in B and I didn't want to watch Serie A without. Then Real with Capello, Cannavaro, Emerson and Barca with Thuram and Zambrotta was the most fun choice

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Atletico 1-1, what a goal by Correa

 

[Xperd]

Luis Suarez clutch again ffs