Juventus Next Gen (9 Viewers)

[Alen]

Our youth sector is the most useless thing in Juventus. The most.
To make it clear, I think the youth sectors are important in football. In our case, though, we have no benefit at all.

I did some research and looked at the players we produced in the last 20 years. Players who went through our youth sector.
Did you guys know that only 9 of our primavera players played more than 10 matches for the Juventus A team? Only 9 of them were of some use for us. In 20 years!!!
And even more, the biggest team in the country hardly ever produces players who later represent the NT. If we exclude Palladino, Gastaldello and Mandragora, who hardly even played for the NT, what remains are only 7 NT players in the last 20 years coming through our youth sector. Out of some 200 who made their debut for the NT in the 2000-2020 period. Sad.
Basically, we produced only one player with impact both for us and Italy. That's Marchisio. Here you can add Immobile, who didn't make any impact in Juve, but made a very good career for club and country, and then Kean, who can at least do what Immobile did. That's it. Giovinco and Criscito had some impact in the NT, as well as Ekdal for his NT. The rest are not even worth mentioning. That's like 5-6 players in 20 fucking years.
Compare this with what the other big teams have developed in their youth sectors.

This is what we produced:
Italian NT and regular starter for Juventus:
Marchisio ---- the only one who made any impact both for Juve and the Italian NT - 389 matches for Juve, 55 for the NT)
--------------
Italian NT and more than 20 matches for Juve:
Sebastian Giovinco (23 matches for the NT)
Moise Kean (8 matches for the NT)
Rafaelle Palladino (3 matches for the NT)
--------------
Italian NT and no use for Juve:
Ciro Immobile (42 matches for the NT, 5 matches for Juve)
Domenico Criscito (26 matches for the NT, 9 matches for Juve)
Mattia Cassani (11 matches for the NT, 0 matches for Juve)
Leonardo Spinazzola (10 matches for the NT, 12 matches for Juve)
Daniele Gastaldello (1 match for the NT, 0 matches for Juve)
Rolando Mandragora (1 match for the NT, 1 match for Juve)
-------------
More than 10 matches for Juventus, never played for Italian NT:
Paolo De Ceglie (119 matches for Juve)
Matteo Paro (29 matches for Juve, all but 1 in serie B)
Luca Marrone (23 matches for Juve)
Frederik Sorensen (17 matches for Juve; 1 for Denmark's NT)
Gianluca Frabotta (15 matches for Juve)
--------------
Regulars for other serie A teams, or other teams in top 5 leagues, but no NT appearances and less than 10 appearances for Juve:
Antonio Mirante (Parma, Bologna, substitute in Roma)
Andrea Masiello (Bari, Atalanta)
Abdoulay Konko (Lazio, Sevilla)
Simone Bentivoglio (Chievo)
Lorenzo Ariaudo (Cagliari)
Iago Falque (Genoa, Roma, Torino)
Andrea Favilli (Genoa, Verona)
-------------
Foreigners who played more than 10 matches for their NT, but didn't make any impact in Juventus):
Albin Ekdal (55 matches for Sweden)
Frantz Bertin (41 matches for Haiti)
Hordur Magnuson (34 matches for Iceland)
Grigoris Kastanos (31 matches for Cyprus)
Marchel Buchel (17 matches for Liechtenstein)


*I didn't include Rugani, since he is not a Juve youth product. He was loaned for 1 season to Juve primavera from Empoli's youth sector.

 

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[MrMonkey]

Alen, that's quite the informative yet depressing post by you. Appears Juve is like the NY Yankees baseball team just buying their players with no existing development system.

 

[Post Ironic]

Seeing as our U23 team just began a couple years ago, it’s also a sorta disingenuous post. We shall get a better idea of its value in a few years.

 

[MrMonkey]

If there was no U23, how did Juve develop players previously?

 

[U Picciriddu]

If there was no U23, how did Juve develop players previously?

U19
Loan
Loan
Loan
Loan
Loan
Sell/free agent

 

[MrMonkey]

 

[Post Ironic]

U19
Loan
Loan
Loan
Loan
Loan
Sell/free agent

Our youth policy was a disaster, but the lack of a B team in pro level league, and the weird nature of Italian football didn’t help us out much there.

We could continue to fail spectacularly with youth in our system, but the B team should really help us better identify and develop young players who could play at top flite level.

 

[s4tch]

What happened to Gozzi, he was playing under Allegri some and then disappeared

still plays for u23, struggled with some injuries. not a bad player, but it looks like he failed to make it to the next level so far. dragusin is younger and looks more mature. i still haven't given up on him yet, he's only 20 (19?), a loan to a serie a club and a good season could raise his value before the inevitable treatment by plusvalentus.

 

[JuveJay]

Our youth sector is the most useless thing in Juventus. The most.
To make it clear, I think the youth sectors are important in football. In our case, though, we have no benefit at all.

I did some research and looked at the players we produced in the last 20 years. Players who went through our youth sector.
Did you guys know that only 9 of our primavera players played more than 10 matches for the Juventus A team? Only 9 of them were of some use for us. In 20 years!!!
And even more, the biggest team in the country hardly ever produces players who later represent the NT. If we exclude Palladino, Gastaldello and Mandragora, who hardly even played for the NT, what remains are only 7 NT players in the last 20 years coming through our youth sector. Out of some 200 who made their debut for the NT in the 2000-2020 period. Sad.
Basically, we produced only one player with impact both for us and Italy. That's Marchisio. Here you can add Immobile, who didn't make any impact in Juve, but made a very good career for club and country, and then Kean, who can at least do what Immobile did. That's it. Giovinco and Criscito had some impact in the NT, as well as Ekdal for his NT. The rest are not even worth mentioning. That's like 5-6 players in 20 fucking years.
Compare this with what the other big teams have developed in their youth sectors.

This is what we produced:
Italian NT and regular starter for Juventus:
Marchisio ---- the only one who made any impact both for Juve and the Italian NT - 389 matches for Juve, 55 for the NT)
--------------
Italian NT and more than 20 matches for Juve:
Sebastian Giovinco (23 matches for the NT)
Moise Kean (8 matches for the NT)
Rafaelle Palladino (3 matches for the NT)
--------------
Italian NT and no use for Juve:
Ciro Immobile (42 matches for the NT, 5 matches for Juve)
Domenico Criscito (26 matches for the NT, 9 matches for Juve)
Mattia Cassani (11 matches for the NT, 0 matches for Juve)
Leonardo Spinazzola (10 matches for the NT, 12 matches for Juve)
Daniele Gastaldello (1 match for the NT, 0 matches for Juve)
Rolando Mandragora (1 match for the NT, 1 match for Juve)
-------------
More than 10 matches for Juventus, never played for Italian NT:
Paolo De Ceglie (119 matches for Juve)
Matteo Paro (29 matches for Juve, all but 1 in serie B)
Luca Marrone (23 matches for Juve)
Frederik Sorensen (17 matches for Juve; 1 for Denmark's NT)
Gianluca Frabotta (15 matches for Juve)
--------------
Regulars for other serie A teams, or other teams in top 5 leagues, but no NT appearances and less than 10 appearances for Juve:
Antonio Mirante (Parma, Bologna, substitute in Roma)
Andrea Masiello (Bari, Atalanta)
Abdoulay Konko (Lazio, Sevilla)
Simone Bentivoglio (Chievo)
Lorenzo Ariaudo (Cagliari)
Iago Falque (Genoa, Roma, Torino)
Andrea Favilli (Genoa, Verona)
-------------
Foreigners who played more than 10 matches for their NT, but didn't make any impact in Juventus):
Albin Ekdal (55 matches for Sweden)
Frantz Bertin (41 matches for Haiti)
Hordur Magnuson (34 matches for Iceland)
Grigoris Kastanos (31 matches for Cyprus)
Marchel Buchel (17 matches for Liechtenstein)


*I didn't include Rugani, since he is not a Juve youth product. He was loaned for 1 season to Juve primavera from Empoli's youth sector.

And it probably didn't matter so much in the Moggi days when the league was a premier league, we could buy who we wanted and competed on an even or superior level to almost any team in Europe, but by the middle of the 00s and then the death knell of Farsopoli it became important. Young players are still used as "piggy banks" and bargaining chips now, and you will see even more of that this summer, but it's important to develop your own players, for so many obvious and well-documented reasons.

I still think having this B team will be very useful for us in terms of integrating with the first team. If anything it allows the players to have a local base where they can train with first team players whilst still having competitive games. This is better than having players loaned all across Italy and Europe who have no association with the club outside of the pre-season.

 

[JuveJay]

Stopped reading at:

“This article is based on the statistics of the U23 players and I had only seen the ones when they played for the first team”

It's pretty much anyone this season who doesn't have an Eleven Sports membership and has the inclination to watch U23 games. I would if I have the time but I've seen enough of this current U23 group to know who can be useful or not. Also, anyone can read stats from websites and see first team call ups to see that a player might be handy. These guys only make posts for people too lazy to join the dots.

@zizinho what @s4tch said, serious injury and has taken a long time to come back, meanwhile Juve brought through/in Capellini and De Marino and both have seniority over him now.

 

[zizinho]

Oh ok, so a loan is very much due for him, to see if he can break through at a higher level

 

[Alen]

And it probably didn't matter so much in the Moggi days when the league was a premier league, we could buy who we wanted and competed on an even or superior level to almost any team in Europe, but by the middle of the 00s and then the death knell of Farsopoli it became important. Young players are still used as "piggy banks" and bargaining chips now, and you will see even more of that this summer, but it's important to develop your own players, for so many obvious and well-documented reasons.

I still think having this B team will be very useful for us in terms of integrating with the first team. If anything it allows the players to have a local base where they can train with first team players whilst still having competitive games. This is better than having players loaned all across Italy and Europe who have no association with the club outside of the pre-season.

To be fairer [because I was probably harsh in my previous post], the other Italian teams didn't produce star players from their youth sectors either. The reason is simple - Italian generations born 1984 and later were among the worst in Italian football history.
In 18 years (born from 1984 to 2002) we can talk about Chiellini, Bonucci, Marchisio, Immobile, Insigne, Verratti, Balotelli, and now the younger Donnarumma, Barella, Chiesa, Zaniolo and Kean. We actually produced 3 of these 12 players (Marchisio, Immobile, Kean), which isn't even bad, and had other 3 join Juve at a young age (Chiellini, Chiesa, Bonucci)
It's just that the talent wasn't there to choose from.

 

[Hust]

Reading Allegri’s take on youth is interesting especially considering he barely used youth players.

coaches always recognize it but never actually do anything about it. Sadly, it seems Pirlo is the closest thing we have had to a coach that actually pkayers younger players

 

[zizinho]

Reading Allegri’s take on youth is interesting especially considering he barely used youth players.

coaches always recognize it but never actually do anything about it. Sadly, it seems Pirlo is the closest thing we have had to a coach that actually pkayers younger players

He played some good ones, remember when Mattiello was a regular in the 1st team before his injury? Because we only had Padoin as backup to Evra at that time. But if you give him better and more proven players at the same positions, ofcourse he's gonna use them instead. We demand results at Juventus after all. Look at Pirlo even now, how much has he played Dragusin so far? He has 4 CBs infront of him, plus Danilo and AS, so he never used him. But get rid of half of those and watch Dragusin 'suddenly gain his trust'

 

[s4tch]

Reading Allegri’s take on youth is interesting especially considering he barely used youth players.

who did we have back then who was ready for first team football but didn't get the opportunity? coman is a name we hear a lot and who supposedly left because of allegri, there's kean who started scoring for the first team under allegri and left after max was fired, he gave a couple of minutes to guys like hans or mattiello, and who else?

as far as i can judge it, our youth has been nothing but an embarrassment for years. iirc besides marchisio, giovinco, immobile and kean, we didn't have any international level youth products. the u23 team is certainly a step in the right direction, but it didn't really exist during allegri's tenure, it started in max's final year iirc.

 

[Hust]

who did we have back then who was ready for first team football but didn't get the opportunity? coman is a name we hear a lot and who supposedly left because of allegri, there's kean who started scoring for the first team under allegri and left after max was fired, he gave a couple of minutes to guys like hans or mattiello, and who else?

as far as i can judge it, our youth has been nothing but an embarrassment for years. iirc besides marchisio, giovinco, immobile and kean, we didn't have any international level youth products. the u23 team is certainly a step in the right direction, but it didn't really exist during allegri's tenure, it started in max's final year iirc.

Not just youth. Even on the mercato we had zero interest in younger talents with potential.

 

[s4tch]

Not just youth. Even on the mercato we had zero interest in younger talents with potential.

what about players like lemina, bobby p, zaza, pjaca, dybala, morata, sturaro, ogbonna, bentancur, bernardeschi, etc? too old?

either way, allegri rarely did any mercato, but with him, most of those young guys got their opportunities. some of them like morata or dybala became regulars, but most of them weren't/aren't that special players.

 

[Hust]

what about players like lemina, bobby p, zaza, pjaca, dybala, morata, sturaro, ogbonna, bentancur, bernardeschi, etc? too old?

either way, allegri rarely did any mercato, but with him, most of those young guys got their opportunities. some of them like morata or dybala became regulars, but most of them weren't/aren't that special players.

im talking about hyped teens I guess. Pjaca really had my hopes up. Again. Those knee injuries man they are hard to shake.

I think Bentancur really was a roll of the dice in the tevez deal and Morata had already established himself younger at RM so that’s more what I’m referring to

our youth academy just sucks

 

[DanielSz]

His loan ends in the summer. Will be interesting to see what they do with him. U23 should have da graca, vrioni, marques, and Frederiksen. That’s a lot at one position. I don’t really rate Marques and Vrioni will be coming off a serious injury and he’s older anyway. Wonder if they use one of Da Graca/Frederiksen to land a more proven forward, like Vlahovic for example.

 

[The Quazis]

Well, if he scored so many goals in Austrian Bundesliga then he definitely won't play in Serie C next season.