I agree on delusion but that's not the only pro-Marchisio angle. Objectivity is also questionable, it's not simply a question of talent.
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Javier Pastore - Palermo - AM/SS (9 Viewers)
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Nah, I defenitely praised him for his recent good performances. But I'm talking in overall, he generally tends to be bit underwhelming/inconsistent. Its like one forgets that quickly after good spell of form. If that form remains, then thats when I call him consistent/good player, but long period of being ghost/barely useful on the pitch isnt forgotten quickly.
I gather its mainly about my expectations of him, I expect quite a bit of him, ever since that Serie B season. Either others dont, or they are too blinded by the sentimentality of being a homegrown player.
I gather its mainly about my expectations of him, I expect quite a bit of him, ever since that Serie B season. Either others dont, or they are too blinded by the sentimentality of being a homegrown player.
I appriciate him that aspect a fair bit like anyone else (why do you think I have such expectations for him). But it does NOT cloud my judgement of him as a player. I dont think he is a world class player, nor do I sugar coat his flaws, just because he is a homegrown Juventino who is one of the symbols of the club.
Marchisio is a very consistent performer.
He's consistently average.
End of story.
Now, we should certainly keep Marchisio and try to get Pastore through other players or methods. He's a good water carrier and someone who loves the club. It would be idiotic to throw him away at this point when we can use other players to grab Pastore.
He's consistently average.
End of story.
Now, we should certainly keep Marchisio and try to get Pastore through other players or methods. He's a good water carrier and someone who loves the club. It would be idiotic to throw him away at this point when we can use other players to grab Pastore.
I dont think thats the question really, I'm sure most would agree with that, as would I. The question is more the hypotetical one of would you give marchi + money for pastore, if that were the only option.
For me personally, I see Marchi as a player for Juve as Tacchinardi was. He was solid, but never anything special, and never indispensable, he did well for the club but will never be remembered as one of the greats for his performances.
TBH, Marchi is only in our squad because we dont have world class players, not because he is world class. If we had a good left winger I'm sure we'd see much less of him, as he couldnt remove Melo nor Aqua from the first 11. And if he's not better than the players you already have in his position, why not use him to get a player who's great and has potetnial to be fantastic in a position where we dont have such a player. Use the resources you have more than you need to get those you need, basic trading.
And if we're talking about players value, how much would you value, realistically, marchisio? (Not you Andy, a general qustion).
For me personally, I see Marchi as a player for Juve as Tacchinardi was. He was solid, but never anything special, and never indispensable, he did well for the club but will never be remembered as one of the greats for his performances.
TBH, Marchi is only in our squad because we dont have world class players, not because he is world class. If we had a good left winger I'm sure we'd see much less of him, as he couldnt remove Melo nor Aqua from the first 11. And if he's not better than the players you already have in his position, why not use him to get a player who's great and has potetnial to be fantastic in a position where we dont have such a player. Use the resources you have more than you need to get those you need, basic trading.
And if we're talking about players value, how much would you value, realistically, marchisio? (Not you Andy, a general qustion).
Well, most of the "pro-Marchisio" camp (and I refer to those repeating absurdly outlandish praise ad nauseam only, not regular fans supporting the player) have trouble grounding their opinions.
I mean, really - "I wouldn't give up Marchisio for any player in the world", "I wouldn't trade Marchisio's boots", "Marchisio > 10 Pastores", "Marchisio's one of our most consistent players", then likening him to Totti and Maldini...
Seriously, get real some of you.
He's a pretty good all-around player, and on his day, very good, that has a major problem imposing himself upon a match and maintaining a consistently high level for more than a few games at a stretch; selective memory is at play here like crazy, for some. Seems too much like a hot and cold form player for my tastes, personally. However, these forms never fluctuate too drastically away from the 'average' baseline or whatever. I guess that's good or bad (never reaching a truly exceptional level, nor ever being truly abysmal). Maybe that's the consistency some go on about?
That he's our youth product now playing regularly in the first team is clouding perspective. I mean calling this guy potential captain after a handful of years? Mentioning his dedication to Juve as comparable to Del Piero's already? Based on what exactly? A "professional attitude"? The aforementioned hypothetical rejection of Chelsea? Lol, come on.
Hence saying it was an attempted objectivity. I like Juventus, first and foremost. Marchisio's just a cog in the wheel of the club right now, so, I don't have anything but a vested interest in seeing him do well. No reason to "hate" him. The thing is, I'm always perplexed by those that choose to bizarrely cheerlead somebody as if they're a Messianic figure when I just can't see what they supposedly see. I guess that's just the nature of the forum, though. The flipside being the demonizing of Amauris and Mottas.
As for talent? Sure, you can judge the player on other merits beyond work on the pitch. However, 90% of the evaluation should remain said work, though, right? After all, this is a football club, not a charitable organization with a bunch of philanthropists garnering favour by doing "good deeds" and giving positive interviews. It irks me when I see a bunch of people start furiously masturbating to any random interview wherein their player-crush simply says something like "Juventus is a great club!"
I mean, really - "I wouldn't give up Marchisio for any player in the world", "I wouldn't trade Marchisio's boots", "Marchisio > 10 Pastores", "Marchisio's one of our most consistent players", then likening him to Totti and Maldini...
Seriously, get real some of you.
He's a pretty good all-around player, and on his day, very good, that has a major problem imposing himself upon a match and maintaining a consistently high level for more than a few games at a stretch; selective memory is at play here like crazy, for some. Seems too much like a hot and cold form player for my tastes, personally. However, these forms never fluctuate too drastically away from the 'average' baseline or whatever. I guess that's good or bad (never reaching a truly exceptional level, nor ever being truly abysmal). Maybe that's the consistency some go on about?
That he's our youth product now playing regularly in the first team is clouding perspective. I mean calling this guy potential captain after a handful of years? Mentioning his dedication to Juve as comparable to Del Piero's already? Based on what exactly? A "professional attitude"? The aforementioned hypothetical rejection of Chelsea? Lol, come on.
Hence saying it was an attempted objectivity. I like Juventus, first and foremost. Marchisio's just a cog in the wheel of the club right now, so, I don't have anything but a vested interest in seeing him do well. No reason to "hate" him. The thing is, I'm always perplexed by those that choose to bizarrely cheerlead somebody as if they're a Messianic figure when I just can't see what they supposedly see. I guess that's just the nature of the forum, though. The flipside being the demonizing of Amauris and Mottas.
As for talent? Sure, you can judge the player on other merits beyond work on the pitch. However, 90% of the evaluation should remain said work, though, right? After all, this is a football club, not a charitable organization with a bunch of philanthropists garnering favour by doing "good deeds" and giving positive interviews. It irks me when I see a bunch of people start furiously masturbating to any random interview wherein their player-crush simply says something like "Juventus is a great club!"
Here's the thing about Marchisio, he really is a true bandiera,would i trade him for Pastore?no,why because he has now become a great player and yes he plays average at the early parts of this season,but he has been playing much better and one of the most consistent players,I would not trade him for Pastore,not because he is just a bandiera,but he really is a talented footballer,everytime he is on the ball,i feel the most confident,i cant say the same thing about Melo,Aqua or even Krasic,he is like Camo and Trezeguet when they are on possession,when he is on the ball he does not make stupid passes or dribbles,he does the correct things and he has been doing that recently,he was usually very very invisible in matches,but not anymore,and he can only get better,so marchisio for pastore is a no go for me,doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him with anybody, if it was for someone who can play so good and really change a game for Juve (someone like Fabregas,yes its not happening with Juve,am just saying,if its for someone at least 2 classes above Marchi,then we can talk,currently Pastore is only a bit above Marchi IMO,and both can still improve) and I can see Marchi even getting better than Pastore for Juventus's future..
It could be just me and a few others here,I love Juventus more than our players,but it is so great to have someone like Marchisio in our team,he is going to be a regular starter for Azzurri also,I cant say the same thing about Pastore,not in the near future anyways,with so many competitions for his place..
This is to quote from an intermerda friend of mine,who i know what you might think,he knows nothing about football and such,but no,this guy has been a fan of inter from the old times,his father was a fan and he became a fan also "If I could take a player from Juve it will only be one guy,and that's your number 8,his got it all,dribbling,stamina,workrate,intelligence and most of all loyalty,you can see he will be in Juve for some time,I'm jealous in inter theres not one real loyal player,only zanetti"
I laughed a bit when he said this to me,but then made me love Marchi even more..
It could be just me and a few others here,I love Juventus more than our players,but it is so great to have someone like Marchisio in our team,he is going to be a regular starter for Azzurri also,I cant say the same thing about Pastore,not in the near future anyways,with so many competitions for his place..
This is to quote from an intermerda friend of mine,who i know what you might think,he knows nothing about football and such,but no,this guy has been a fan of inter from the old times,his father was a fan and he became a fan also "If I could take a player from Juve it will only be one guy,and that's your number 8,his got it all,dribbling,stamina,workrate,intelligence and most of all loyalty,you can see he will be in Juve for some time,I'm jealous in inter theres not one real loyal player,only zanetti"
I laughed a bit when he said this to me,but then made me love Marchi even more..
Consistently decent 
Seriously though, one of our top 5 performers imo.
I wasn't talking about what Marchisio said about Real, those are just typical statements made by players to make themselves more popular with the fans.
I was referring to Mourinho saying he wanted Marchisio at Inter (and now Real supposedly). To me that is the same as someone from the Juve camp saying they want Pastore.
And personally, I don't believe a word Zamparini says, but that's just me. I truly believe that, had there been an actual offer worth 25m, Pastore would no longer be a Palermo player.
That kinda goes both ways doesn't it?
Or would you prefer one of Aquilani or Melo to be shifted to that left side out of necessity? I sure don't. In fact, hasn't Del Neri once said that Marchisio is the "victim" & ends up being shifted to that left side at times because he has the versatility the others lack?
Seriously though, one of our top 5 performers imo.
I wasn't talking about what Marchisio said about Real, those are just typical statements made by players to make themselves more popular with the fans.
I was referring to Mourinho saying he wanted Marchisio at Inter (and now Real supposedly). To me that is the same as someone from the Juve camp saying they want Pastore.
And personally, I don't believe a word Zamparini says, but that's just me. I truly believe that, had there been an actual offer worth 25m, Pastore would no longer be a Palermo player.
That kinda goes both ways doesn't it?
Or would you prefer one of Aquilani or Melo to be shifted to that left side out of necessity? I sure don't. In fact, hasn't Del Neri once said that Marchisio is the "victim" & ends up being shifted to that left side at times because he has the versatility the others lack?
exactly that versatility would move him out of the first 11, but likely to sub in during every game, or replace the injured/banned central midfielder
pastore in our team ? On the SS position he would be devastating.
Teams would struggle to mark both pastore and krasic, and aqua would get alot of room in the midfield. we also would become very pacy going forward on counters
the thing is, who is going to replace marchi ? Pepe is less then him on the right side, against inter it was clearly visabale.
i wouldnt mind swapping pastore and marchisio, even if he is my favorite player from the current squad, he's not good enough to pass on pastore, but what with leftmidfield ?
pastore in our team ? On the SS position he would be devastating.
Teams would struggle to mark both pastore and krasic, and aqua would get alot of room in the midfield. we also would become very pacy going forward on counters
the thing is, who is going to replace marchi ? Pepe is less then him on the right side, against inter it was clearly visabale.
i wouldnt mind swapping pastore and marchisio, even if he is my favorite player from the current squad, he's not good enough to pass on pastore, but what with leftmidfield ?
The funny thing about City is, that their young players get sold for cheap, and that their youth are acutally really good. Sturridge, Ireland and Onuoha are all good players who're capable of becoming legends but they're shipped away for more shiny names.
Where would be Juve's identity if the likes of Buffon, Marchisio, and Chiellini were sold? And people talk like if Marchisio is a bad player, he might not be a world class talent, but he's very solid and versatile. I think his game is lacking confidence, I remember in the time under Ciro he was playing with more confidence, trying some tricks and shooting from outside the box, but then again he's getting played out of position as a left winger, and he's doing okay for himself and he's not complaining.
Name me a player who's capable of giving a decent performance all across the midfield, and doesn't complain if he's not playing or if he's played out of position, name me one.
Where would be Juve's identity if the likes of Buffon, Marchisio, and Chiellini were sold? And people talk like if Marchisio is a bad player, he might not be a world class talent, but he's very solid and versatile. I think his game is lacking confidence, I remember in the time under Ciro he was playing with more confidence, trying some tricks and shooting from outside the box, but then again he's getting played out of position as a left winger, and he's doing okay for himself and he's not complaining.
Name me a player who's capable of giving a decent performance all across the midfield, and doesn't complain if he's not playing or if he's played out of position, name me one.
We'll probably never know, but I think that if we did have a real option on the left wing (we kinda do with Pepe, but still), Aquilani would be out & Marchisio would take his spot in the middle.
Difficult to answer. If we're able to find some balance on the team we might be, but I don't think a player like Aquilani is disciplined enough.
Difficult to answer. If we're able to find some balance on the team we might be, but I don't think a player like Aquilani is disciplined enough.
We need players like Tacchinardi and Marchisio. They are indeed the water carriers of the club. And since Claudio is a Juventino, he will get extra points -- both from a love perspective and ratings on the pitch. It's only natural.
But if you had to choose between Marchisio or Pastore, and I mean seriously choose, only a fool would not pick the Argie.
But if you had to choose between Marchisio or Pastore, and I mean seriously choose, only a fool would not pick the Argie.
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