Italy = anti islam (2 Viewers)

[Rami]

valid point Layce Erayce.. but, unfortunately, governments in the middle east are far away from Islam despite what most people think.. even the countries that was looked at as pure islamic countries like Iran, former Afghanistani regime "Taliban", KSA..etc all these governments (no offence) are as dirty as any other government in the world..!! they are no saints..
so yes, sometimes they do opress foreigners and look at them like they are the devils.. but, to be fair.. arabs are treated the same way in western countries too.. even worse..!! so, let's call it even.. furthermore, Islam, sadly, is no moral guide for anyone anymore.. except for very few people (some teachers, lecturers, fathers..) who use this guide for their daily routine dealings which won't affect anybody.. "politically" speaking..

Sad but true, governments might want you to believe that they are the closest to Islam, while they are actually way far from it....

There is this famous qoute I don't remember who he said it but it goes something like this "I went to the middle east and found Muslims without Islam, and to the West and found Islam without Muslims"......which is more than one way very true cuz at the end of the day "al-deen muamala" or "The Religion (Islam) is how you treat others".

 

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[Gandalf]

I don't know who you quoted that line from.. but how can be Islam found without Muslims..?? or did he meant, by muslims, Arabs..!! which takes us to another mis-conception.. most non-muslims non-arabs think that every arab is muslim and every muslim is arab, which is far from truth.. Islam doesn't know races.. its all beauty lies on the foundation that says "all people are the same, they differ on what they do, not who they are"

unless, he meant that most muslims do not do what islam tells them to do.. and non-muslims do more good and charity work than muslims..?? if that what you meant, then I agree.. and discard all the above, cause it will make me a complete idiot..

 

[Rami]

I don't know who you quoted that line from.. but how can be Islam found without Muslims..?? or did he meant, by muslims, Arabs..!! which takes us to another mis-conception.. most non-muslims non-arabs think that every arab is muslim and every muslim is arab, which is far from truth.. Islam doesn't know races.. its all beauty lies on the foundation that says "all people are the same, they differ on what they do, not who they are"

unless, he meant that most muslims do not do what islam tells them to do.. and non-muslims do more good and charity work than muslims..?? if that what you meant, then I agree.. and discard all the above, cause it will make me a complete idiot..

Ya it does you pretty much answered your own question...but its not charity, its how human rights are respected, how people in the West respect the law more, respect their environment more....etc. Most Muslims unfortunatly embraced the superficial aspects of the religion and forgot about the essence...I believe you are Arabic so I would some it in the word "mo3amala"

 

[Gandalf]

yes.. point taken..

and yes, I am an Arab.. from the UAE to be precise..

 

[mirela]

terror has nothing to do with islam and religion....religious people should know that!!!!terrorist do not only come from arabic countries and are not only muslims...disturbed people are all around the world!!!!but one question:why italy???what did italian military forces do in other countries that italian civilins can pay back now??
violence is not answer for anything-is what every religion say

 

[Rami]

yes.. point taken..

and yes, I am an Arab.. from the UAE to be precise..

"Hala bi ahl Zayed"...Saudi here.

 

[Rami]

terror has nothing to do with islam and religion....religious people should know that!!!!terrorist do not only come from arabic countries and are not only muslims...disturbed people are all around the world!!!!but one question:why italy???what did italian military forces do in other countries that italian civilins can pay back now??
violence is not answer for anything-is what every religion say

Welcome to the forumz mirela

 

[findinganewnick]

Completely out of line, but Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, Turkey used to be a Church and it is now a Mosque

Well yeah, because at first it was a part of Byzantium, which was Greek and christian, and when it got overtaken by Muslims later on, they changed it in a church. Not really an example of religious tolerance I'm afraid.

 

[findinganewnick]

Its much simpler than that.. oh and communism is about as far away as possible from where I stand politically so lets not go there.

I just think that we are taking this multicultural thing too far, soon parts of our country will be indistinguishable from islamic states or sikh dominated areas of india. Its just plain wrong imo, I want our original britishness to be preserved!

But is that going to be possible. There are loads of immigrants in the UK and there are loads of immigrants throughout Europe. When that number becomes so high there nearly as much as the original population I don't see why their culture couldn't become equally important. If there are going to be more muslims than christians in the future, I think Belgium should become a muslim state.

 

[findinganewnick]

A question,

If i moved to a muslim country in the middle east...

If i said i was offended by the mention of islam in school, religious symbolism etc... would it be removed so i was comfortable ?

Of course not... Thats what is being asked (and granted) in the likes of the uk and italy...

If i was offended because there wasnt a church... would these countries close down a local mosque and replace it with a churc ? of course not (again something requested and granted across the uk and italy)

If i wished for the countries religious foundations to be swept aside as i was offended by it, would that happen ?

Of course not, but is expected in italy and the uk...

Sorry but a country has no obligation to change their culture and to dumb down the virtues that country was built on jus to please people coming into the country of other beliefs...

Of course a country must give people coming in from different cultures the freedom to live along the lines of their faith, but not to change for them...

People coming in are the ones who need to compromise and fit in to the traditions and way of life of the country they wish to reside in... the country has no need to change for them, but only to allow the rifght to practice their faith

If people refuse to compromise and adapt to their new country / way of life ... well bad fvcking luck

That still doesn't justify the fact they're not allowed to wear what they want.

 

[findinganewnick]

I tyhink its fair enough really. People can say its discrimination but at the end of the day, 9/11 - 7/7 - madrid bombings - suicide bombings every day in iraq - al qaeda - 99% of terrorist threats and activities - its in the name of islam.

True. Which is why I absolutely believe every religious book out there should be burnt. Think about it: is it faith that makes people commit these crimes? No. It's religion. Based on those BOOKS and based on what OTHER PEOPLE tell them they do such things. Ban religion altogether I say. It's the most common justification for a war. Hell, even Bush tells us he's going on a crusade.

I'm very sorry, but the only way we will ever establish peace is banning religion. We've tried to do so with religion for thousands of years now, there have been a million wars fought in the name of religion, I think it's about time we get it. RELIGION = WAR = TERRORISM = RETARDEDNESS.

And don't tell me this post is offensive, because my beliefs aren't the ones who have been causing havoc over this planet in the last gazillion years.

 

[Rami]

WOW this is a step up from blaming everything on America....

 

[findinganewnick]

WOW this is a step up from blaming everything on America....

Name me one thing religion did well in order to establish world peace in the last 3000 years. Now sum up the things religion did to establish the opposite.

 

[Rami]

Sorry man aint gonna get sucked in!! you done this to yourself....

 

[findinganewnick]

WTF are you talking about? Religion is reponsible for a hell of a lot of suffering. Period. The world would be better off without it. Period.

 

[Layce Erayce]

thanks..

agree.. thank you..



valid point Layce Erayce.. but, unfortunately, governments in the middle east are far away from Islam despite what most people think.. even the countries that was looked at as pure islamic countries like Iran, former Afghanistani regime "Taliban", KSA..etc all these governments (no offence) are as dirty as any other government in the world..!! they are no saints..
so yes, sometimes they do opress foreigners and look at them like they are the devils.. but, to be fair.. arabs are treated the same way in western countries too.. even worse..!! so, let's call it even.. furthermore, Islam, sadly, is no moral guide for anyone anymore.. except for very few people (some teachers, lecturers, fathers..) who use this guide for their daily routine dealings which won't affect anybody.. "politically" speaking..

Well, Im glad that you dont see Arab governments as the purest form of government there is. At least we are on the same page here. I believe what you say regarding Islam being a real moral guide applies to Christianity too.

However, you are wrong if you think Arabs are treated the same in the west. FFS, one of the final 3 presidential candidates in the 2004 US Presidential elections was Arab! They are given the same opportunities as everybody else, including a realistic chance to become an American citizen and a part of American society. They may face racism, but dont think others havent. Racism disgusts me, but I can still look at the bigger picture in that Arabs have had relatively less to deal with (until 11/9 at least)

Whenever I have to get to the mall I need to go up route 1. Along the way, I drive past Malouf, a mega auto dealership with four big showrooms, each a short distance from each other along the highway. They sell every American badge besides Chevy, and every third car on the road has the Malouf badge on them. Im sure the ethnicity of the name will sound familiar. Every time I drive by, it serves as a reminder to me of how anyone can do anything in the US. The only thing stopping you is yourself. (Which is why people who use the race card annoy me so much. MLK didnt let it stop him, did he?)

 

[findinganewnick]

Well, Im glad that you dont see Arab governments as the purest form of government there is. At least we are on the same page here. I believe what you say regarding Islam being a real moral guide applies to Christianity too.

However, you are wrong if you think Arabs are treated the same in the west. FFS, one of the final 3 presidential candidates in the 2004 US Presidential elections was Arab! They are given the same opportunities as everybody else, including a realistic chance to become an American citizen and a part of American society. They may face racism, but dont think others havent. Racism disgusts me, but I can still look at the bigger picture in that Arabs have had relatively less to deal with (until 11/9 at least)

Whenever I have to get to the mall I need to go up route 1. Along the way, I drive past Malouf, a mega auto dealership with four big showrooms, each a short distance from each other along the highway. They sell every American badge besides Chevy, and every third car on the road has the Malouf badge on them. Im sure the ethnicity of the name will sound familiar. Every time I drive by, it serves as a reminder to me of how anyone can do anything in the US. The only thing stopping you is yourself. (Which is why people who use the race card annoy me so much. MLK didnt let it stop him, did he?)

The core of any religious belief is moral. Every one has their own moral judgement and that's what we should stick to. Mohammed and the evangelists are no more than pure criminials in my eyes, although that's definitely not what they wanted to be. Look at what people have been doing since the beginning of time thanks to religion. And now people are bashing me, because I spit on the beliefs of christians, jews and muslims. My, my, I'm the intolerant one here? My beliefs aren't the ones who have been slaughtering thousands of people. Please burn those moral guides you speak of.

Seriously, how much more time will we need to realise this? We're a modern and advanced society but still need those books? We have come to the conclusion a gazillion times that we were fighting silly wars over it, yet we still haven't abolished them? You lot can be as stupid as you want, but I, for one, think it's not sensible and irresponsible to go on and read those books as moral guides.

What is it really that makes people such dumb motherfvckers. I'm sure Rami is never going to kill a man over a religious discussion, but millions out there would. So I don't understandwhy religion is still legal. Once again I don't mean believing in God, but believing in books.

 

[findinganewnick]

I'm serious about this btw.

Can someone give me ONE advantage of religion? ONE advantage of let's say the Qu'ran?

 

[Layce Erayce]

The core of any religious belief is moral. Every one has their own moral judgement and that's what we should stick to. Mohammed and the evangelists are no more than pure criminials in my eyes, although that's definitely not what they wanted to be. Look at what people have been doing since the beginning of time thanks to religion. And now people are bashing me, because I spit on the beliefs of christians, jews and muslims. My, my, I'm the intolerant one here? My beliefs aren't the ones who have been slaughtering thousands of people. Please burn those moral guides you speak of.

Seriously, how much more time will we need to realise this? We're a modern and advanced society but still need those books? We have come to the conclusion a gazillion times that we were fighting silly wars over it, yet we still haven't abolished them? You lot can be as stupid as you want, but I, for one, think it's not sensible and irresponsible to go on and read those books as moral guides.

What is it really that makes people such dumb motherfvckers. I'm sure Rami is never going to kill a man over a religious discussion, but millions out there would. So I don't understandwhy religion is still legal. Once again I don't mean believing in God, but believing in books.

You need to spend more time thinking your person beliefs through. Everybody cannot have their own moral code because society will suffer from the consequent lack of unity and cooperation.

What your saying is pretty typical really- discounting all the good done by a religion, preferring to count only the bad and judging them on that. If Mohammed or Jesus is a pure criminal then what is Hitler or Stalin?

Your hypocritical if you believe you can "spit" on what other people believe and then complain when your being mistreated. Especially when you yourself have no answers. You deserve it if you indeed "spit" on peoples beliefs. How would you react if I "spit" on your beliefs?

To look at the effects of good morals you just need to look at the founding fathers. Call them what you will, but their morals led to the United States at present. You think people with "their own morals" are capable of something like that? Would 50 cent make a good founding father?

You cant be hedonistic, you cant be draconian.

You need a balance between moral restriction and freedom to develop the groundwork for a functional society, something sorely lacking among the "own-moral" generation you speak of.

 

[findinganewnick]

You need to spend more time thinking your person beliefs through. Everybody cannot have their own moral code because society will suffer from the consequent lack of unity and cooperation.

What your saying is pretty typical really- discounting all the good done by a religion, preferring to count only the bad and judging them on that. If Mohammed or Jesus is a pure criminal then what is Hitler or Stalin?

Your hypocritical if you believe you can "spit" on what other people believe and then complain when your being mistreated. Especially when you yourself have no answers. You deserve it if you indeed "spit" on peoples beliefs. How would you react if I "spit" on your beliefs?

To look at the effects of good morals you just need to look at the founding fathers. Call them what you will, but their morals led to the United States at present. You think people with "their own morals" are capable of something like that? Would 50 cent make a good founding father?

You cant be hedonistic, you cant be draconian.

You need a balance between moral restriction and freedom to develop the groundwork for a functional society, something sorely lacking among the "own-moral" generation you speak of.

Not really true. You see the laws we have know are mostly based on what every religion is based on: the "human" distinction between good and evil. Although not every person has that, most of us have. That's a profound difference with religion and law has little or nothing to do with christianity for example. In moral you have certain ground rules that are the same for most people, I would go with those ground rules to establish a society, and actually that's what has already been done. Now religion is a whole different story.


EDIT: Jesus and Stalin have caused just as many deaths Hitler and Mohammed. And yes, I did mix those up intentionally.