"I support Muslims who love freedom" (2 Viewers)

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icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
30,251
#21
Thats mean man:D There is no way i could answer that with 1 word



Stupid or you dont agree?



No Martin, the thing is he makes alot of valid points but he also talks alot of crap, He is always trying to get controvery, If you really want to know things about him, i can give you all the information you want and it's true that he says these sort of things and like i said before he makes both valid and stupid points. He is not a jackass for saying these things because we got freedom of speach here, he is mostly a jackass because he is saying the wrong things like taxes for wearing a i have no idea what the word is in english but the clothing the muslima's wear on there heads.
Hmmm, that seems like a good idea. I'd rephrase it a little bit though. Lesser the cloths the lesser the tax. Only for women :agree: :D

You can call it the headscarf btw :smile:
 

Trezegol17

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2006
9,126
#23
icεmαή;2616358 said:
Hmmm, that seems like a good idea. I'd rephrase it a little bit though. Lesser the cloths the lesser the tax. Only for women :agree: :D

You can call it the headscarf btw :smile:
:D Hmm valid point there
Stupid.

Try to think of somebody from Australia who comes on TV saying that Belgium should be renamed Holland, because Holland lands should be taken by Germany.

What will you think of him?
1. I did not say i agree m8
2.That's a total different situation because we are not war and not trying to find a solution, the idea of him saying that is not that strange, since Jordan used to be a part of Isreal if i'm correct. One of my friends who is from Jordan told me that about 60% of the people there are actually from Palenstinian origin. Other thing is that Israel will never give back the land to the Palestine people. So people can say what they want at least in my country but if they ever will do something with it is the second option
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
9,316
#24
What Islam is doing to Muslims is reflected in the way they deal with
their daughters. On March 11, 2002 fifteen Saudi schoolgirls were
killed when they tried to flee from their burning school in the holy
city of Mecca. A fire set the building ablaze. The girls ran to the
school gate, but it was locked. The keys were held by a male guard who
refused to open the gate, because the girls are not wearing the proper
Islamic dress which the Saudi law requires women to wear: facial veil
and dress. The 'indecently dressed' girls (without facial veil) were
trying frantically to save their young lives. The Saudi police hit
them back into the burning building. Agents of the Muttawa, the
"Committee for the promotion of virtue and prevention of sin," as the
religious police in Saudi Arabia are called also beat passersby and
firefighters who tried to help the girls. "It is sinful to come near
them," the police warned the crowd. It's not only sinful, it is also a
crime.
:shocked:

Also read the entire thing. The part I quoted made me sick tbh.


As for Wilders, I don't know much about the guy, as I'm not at all interested in him. But I do think he has a point when he says Islam is all about apathy & submission.

Just like pretty much every other religion...
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
9,677
#25
As most of the guys here pointed out, the author quoted the Quran out of context. It seems he had and experience that gave him an idea to write about but he had nothing to support it from within Islam and so he googled the Quran.

Anyway, he makes one interesting point regarding fatalism and its effect on Muslims here in Egypt.
Fatalism is a big part of Islam and is heavily stressed where I come from but you also find verses that ask Muslims to take action if they want change. I never heard the philosophical discussion of Fate Vs Free will debated in a mosque or on TV, the rare ones who think are left to find the answers themselves as the Fate Vs Freewill problem never ended in philosophy.


I have to say that from my personal experience and my personal observation of the society around me, the belief in fate holds people backwards. There is too much dependence on God I must say. Most people view economic gain as Rizk that God assigns rather than the result of economic rules and playing the game right.
In Marriage they here have the concept of Esma and Naseeb which is the same concept of Rizk (God Given wealth) but it is in terms of who is the Husband/Wife.

Accidents and deaths are also viewed as an act of fate. Often times people who make disastrous mistakes go unpunished. My Mother's death (Car accident) went unpunished because the court said it was an act of Fate even though several people should have been prosecuted.

and thus, I do agree that fatalism holds people back, particularly in a politically passive population like Egypt's but I fail to see how fatalism, fear of Mubarak and all the other stuff connect. The author is just taking random shots at Islam with no organization.

The fear of leaders is true amongst Egyptians but that is because of the tactics chosen by the government to deal with its people. This is not a problem of Islam at all; the prophet was not feared by his own followers.. he was feared by his enemies which is not a bad thing at all. Yes Muslims are more God fearing individuals than God loving ones but still that is not related to Mubarak or any of the other tyrants.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#26
The fear of leaders is true amongst Egyptians but that is because of the tactics chosen by the government to deal with its people. This is not a problem of Islam at all; the prophet was not feared by his own followers.. he was feared by his enemies which is not a bad thing at all. Yes Muslims are more God fearing individuals than God loving ones but still that is not related to Mubarak or any of the other tyrants.
The sentence that annoyed me in his article is:

Mubarak is not considered as the worst tyrant in the Muslim world
What did he build this assumption on?
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#27
:D Hmm valid point there


1. I did not say i agree m8
2.That's a total different situation because we are not war and not trying to find a solution, the idea of him saying that is not that strange, since Jordan used to be a part of Isreal if i'm correct. One of my friends who is from Jordan told me that about 60% of the people there are actually from Palenstinian origin. Other thing is that Israel will never give back the land to the Palestine people. So people can say what they want at least in my country but if they ever will do something with it is the second option
1- I did not say you agreed with him, mate...

2- Jordan was never a part of Israel. And I don't remember that anybody asked for his interference in the Middle East issue, so he could just mind his own business. He can save his sweats for working domestically for his people instead of imposing his stupid ideas on others.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#28
As most of the guys here pointed out, the author quoted the Quran out of context. It seems he had and experience that gave him an idea to write about but he had nothing to support it from within Islam and so he googled the Quran.

Anyway, he makes one interesting point regarding fatalism and its effect on Muslims here in Egypt.
Fatalism is a big part of Islam and is heavily stressed where I come from but you also find verses that ask Muslims to take action if they want change. I never heard the philosophical discussion of Fate Vs Free will debated in a mosque or on TV, the rare ones who think are left to find the answers themselves as the Fate Vs Freewill problem never ended in philosophy.


I have to say that from my personal experience and my personal observation of the society around me, the belief in fate holds people backwards. There is too much dependence on God I must say. Most people view economic gain as Rizk that God assigns rather than the result of economic rules and playing the game right.
In Marriage they here have the concept of Esma and Naseeb which is the same concept of Rizk (God Given wealth) but it is in terms of who is the Husband/Wife.

Accidents and deaths are also viewed as an act of fate. Often times people who make disastrous mistakes go unpunished. My Mother's death (Car accident) went unpunished because the court said it was an act of Fate even though several people should have been prosecuted.

and thus, I do agree that fatalism holds people back, particularly in a politically passive population like Egypt's but I fail to see how fatalism, fear of Mubarak and all the other stuff connect. The author is just taking random shots at Islam with no organization.
I have to say that fatalism that affects people's behavior negatively currently is the result of traditions, not religion. Islam had never condoned being lazy. It motivated everybody to do what is required of him in order to apply quality in the best possible way.

Some people find it easier to put the burden of their laziness on the fate justification. I'm sorry for your mother, but it seems the Egyptian court has a special interpretation of the fate impact on crimes. That is not applied in Jordan. Anybody who causes the death of others by a car accident should be imprisoned until the relatives of the victim forgive him.

For the marriage issue, I think this fate thing is used by the relatives of the guy when he is refused by the girl in order to console him and to decrease his frustration. It is not a religious thing.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
#29
Thats mean man:D There is no way i could answer that with 1 word



Stupid or you dont agree?




No Martin, the thing is he makes alot of valid points but he also talks alot of crap, He is always trying to get controvery, If you really want to know things about him, i can give you all the information you want and it's true that he says these sort of things and like i said before he makes both valid and stupid points. He is not a jackass for saying these things because we got freedom of speach here, he is mostly a jackass because he is saying the wrong things like taxes for wearing a i have no idea what the word is in english but the clothing the muslima's wear on there heads.
It's obviously stupid. Is he saying, go to an independent country and call it yours?? How is that a solution? Isn't that just going to create another problem, i mean you don't expect the Jordanians to just be ok with that, do you??! :confused:

One thing you have to applaud in him, is his consistency though. I mean he thinks its right for the Israeli's to occupy Palestinian territory and then change its name to Israel, now he wants the Palestinians to do the same to Jordanians:claire:

:D Hmm valid point there


1. I did not say i agree m8
2.That's a total different situation because we are not war and not trying to find a solution, the idea of him saying that is not that strange, since Jordan used to be a part of Isreal if i'm correct. One of my friends who is from Jordan told me that about 60% of the people there are actually from Palenstinian origin. Other thing is that Israel will never give back the land to the Palestine people. So people can say what they want at least in my country but if they ever will do something with it is the second option
Thats true.

Pakistani's and Indians form 50% of UAE's population too, should we also rename the UAE to Pakistan or India? :confused:

As most of the guys here pointed out, the author quoted the Quran out of context. It seems he had and experience that gave him an idea to write about but he had nothing to support it from within Islam and so he googled the Quran.

Anyway, he makes one interesting point regarding fatalism and its effect on Muslims here in Egypt.
Fatalism is a big part of Islam and is heavily stressed where I come from but you also find verses that ask Muslims to take action if they want change. I never heard the philosophical discussion of Fate Vs Free will debated in a mosque or on TV, the rare ones who think are left to find the answers themselves as the Fate Vs Freewill problem never ended in philosophy.


I have to say that from my personal experience and my personal observation of the society around me, the belief in fate holds people backwards. There is too much dependence on God I must say. Most people view economic gain as Rizk that God assigns rather than the result of economic rules and playing the game right.
In Marriage they here have the concept of Esma and Naseeb which is the same concept of Rizk (God Given wealth) but it is in terms of who is the Husband/Wife.

Accidents and deaths are also viewed as an act of fate. Often times people who make disastrous mistakes go unpunished. My Mother's death (Car accident) went unpunished because the court said it was an act of Fate even though several people should have been prosecuted.

and thus, I do agree that fatalism holds people back, particularly in a politically passive population like Egypt's but I fail to see how fatalism, fear of Mubarak and all the other stuff connect. The author is just taking random shots at Islam with no organization.

The fear of leaders is true amongst Egyptians but that is because of the tactics chosen by the government to deal with its people. This is not a problem of Islam at all; the prophet was not feared by his own followers.. he was feared by his enemies which is not a bad thing at all. Yes Muslims are more God fearing individuals than God loving ones but still that is not related to Mubarak or any of the other tyrants.
I agree completely with your post here, but about the bold part, i think you can attribute that to a lack of education. Are you familiar with the distinction between tawakul and tawaakol?? Well these people(yes they are many), probably aren't. A direct consequence of not understanding the distinction between the two concepts can be relying too much on fate, or naseeb or whatever it is.
 

Bisco

porn forum troll
Nov 21, 2005
14,276
#30
The sentence that annoyed me in his article is:



What did he build this assumption on?
i think he meant that he is not like saddam for instance :D and to be honest i'm yet to see the egyptains who go to sharem and fear his presence!! the guy reads his insults in the news papers every morning but is cold!!!!!!!!! as if they r insulting some one else. i think in this sense he is not one of the worst. he is'nt even the leader with the longest reign in the region. when u compare gaddafi for instance who witnessed nasser!!!! off course he is up there with the rest of the gang if u know what i mean.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
#31
I too think he is nowhere near the likes of Gadaffi and Bashar. Those two are easily the biggest tyrants in the Arab world right now.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#32
i think he meant that he is not like saddam for instance :D and to be honest i'm yet to see the egyptains who go to sharem and fear his presence!! the guy reads his insults in the news papers every morning but is cold!!!!!!!!! as if they r insulting some one else. i think in this sense he is not one of the worst. he is'nt even the leader with the longest reign in the region. when u compare gaddafi for instance who witnessed nasser!!!! off course he is up there with the rest of the gang if u know what i mean.
I too think he is nowhere near the likes of Gadaffi and Bashar. Those two are easily the biggest tyrants in the Arab world right now.
Well, relatively I see him the worst currently.
 

Bisco

porn forum troll
Nov 21, 2005
14,276
#33
I too think he is nowhere near the likes of Gadaffi and Bashar. Those two are easily the biggest tyrants in the Arab world right now.
u know fred they r all the same to be honest!! every one has his style depending on the people he rules. i mean there is talk now about the presidency in egypt and i doubt what was pulled off in syria will work in egypt bec the people back home are boiling and will explode if his son takes the presidency. i see this happening personally and it will be interesting bec people have survived 30 years of tough life and empty promises. off course dont be fooled there were a lot of people who benefited from this era to the degree there is no middle class in egypt at the moment. the middle class moved two ways. either they are the lower upper class or upper lower class .( financially speaking). but the majority of the population i,e 80% are having a very harsh life, and its this 80% that will bring hell in the case his son moves in for the then to be empty post. another thing is we are done with officers ruling us!! we had 3 military presidents enough is enough.
 

Bisco

porn forum troll
Nov 21, 2005
14,276
#35
Well, relatively I see him the worst currently.
i understand why u see that, but once again thats not him alone yaa reb u know the drill :D phone rings from Washington and he follows instructions. close the gates at rafa7 or u will wake up in the street!!
 

Bisco

porn forum troll
Nov 21, 2005
14,276
#36
icεmαή;2616442 said:
let's do that :weee:
back when i was still in school, i had friends from the indian school here in riyadh and they told me that the total number of students in there school was 8000 students!!! all were indians bec u cant join there school bec they take the same courses they give back in india!! it just shows u the amount of indians and pakistani's here in the gulf. i read some history recently about this region and apparently its not new. even before the oil boom in the region the gulf always had strong ties with india and pakistan specially when it came to trade lines.
 

Trezegol17

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2006
9,126
#38
1- I did not say you agreed with him, mate...

2- Jordan was never a part of Israel. And I don't remember that anybody asked for his interference in the Middle East issue, so he could just mind his own business. He can save his sweats for working domestically for his people instead of imposing his stupid ideas on others.
1.Kk man ,good that we're on the same level then:beer:
He was probably asked for his opinion, since he will be dealing with the situation as soon as our goverment is formed m8, maybe it out of context, i'm not sure didn't see the article in any dutch newspaper or website yet.

It's obviously stupid. Is he saying, go to an independent country and call it yours?? How is that a solution? Isn't that just going to create another problem, i mean you don't expect the Jordanians to just be ok with that, do you??! :confused:

One thing you have to applaud in him, is his consistency though. I mean he thinks its right for the Israeli's to occupy Palestinian territory and then change its name to Israel, now he wants the Palestinians to do the same to Jordanians:claire:



Thats true.

Pakistani's and Indians form 50% of UAE's population too, should we also rename the UAE to Pakistan or India? :confused:



I agree completely with your post here, but about the bold part, i think you can attribute that to a lack of education. Are you familiar with the distinction between tawakul and tawaakol?? Well these people(yes they are many), probably aren't. A direct consequence of not understanding the distinction between the two concepts can be relying too much on fate, or naseeb or whatever it is.
No m8 i don't agree like i said :) I think said it was based on the thing that he was pressuming like i did that Jordan used to be a part of the old Israel. The thing i hate now is because he is on the right side ,it gets much more attention then when let's say our still prime minister Balkenende.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#39
:shocked:

Also read the entire thing. The part I quoted made me sick tbh.


As for Wilders, I don't know much about the guy, as I'm not at all interested in him. But I do think he has a point when he says Islam is all about apathy & submission.

Just like pretty much every other religion...
I don't know enough about Islam to comment on the overall post, but if that part you quoted is true is is horrific and shameful, that is a disgrace to humanity. We are humans above all else
That happened in Saudi Arabia, guys. In Saudi Arabia they follow extremist ideas made by some guy on the 18th century claiming that it is the real Islam. Islam is 15 centuries old. You can not base your opinion on a religion because of stupid acts of some of the followers that have nothing to do with the religion principles.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,869
#40
i understand why u see that, but once again thats not him alone yaa reb u know the drill :D phone rings from Washington and he follows instructions. close the gates at rafa7 or u will wake up in the street!!
I know, Ahmad, but I feel he enjoys it:)
 
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