Honour killings (2 Viewers)

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++


Well I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I'm not going to research the hard fact on this, but in every single case of an honour killing bar this one that I've heard of, Muslims were involved. From that evidence if you will I think its a perfectly reasonable conclusion to reach. If you go out and find that the majority of honour killings have in fact been carried out by christians then I'll gladly eat my words, but I find it highly unlikely that this is the case.

Tom, if you knew pre-Islam Arab history, you'd understand that this honor-killing is a cultural thing more than a religious one. It's an aspect of their culture that Islam has been fighting against for more than 1400 years.

Most Arabs are muslim, therefore, I can understand how you (MISTAKENLY) correlate the crime with the religion instead of the people. The fact that Christian arabs also do this, and Islam is against this supports my claim.

A glance at how Arabs (BEFORE ISLAM) used to treat their women:
1. They were sold like slaves.
2. A man can have an unlimited number of wives.
3. In the community, a recently orphaned girl would be married off (nomatter how old she was and even if she disagreed) to any man on a firt come first serve basis, so the man can take her family's fortune.
4. Worst of all, it was seen as a shame (much like these honor killings) to have a girl, so many newborn girls used to be burried alive in the desert the day they were born.

Islam came, and stopped all that. Of course, traces of mistreatment remain till this day out of IGNORANCE.

 

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[Tom]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
Tom, if you knew pre-Islam Arab history, you'd understand that this honor-killing is a cultural thing more than a religious one. It's an aspect of their culture that Islam has been fighting against for more than 1400 years.

Most Arabs are muslim, therefore, I can understand how you (MISTAKENLY) correlate the crime with the religion instead of the people. The fact that Christian arabs also do this, and Islam is against this supports my claim.

Well if you think I'm trying to correlate Islam with honour killings you've got me wrong.. well sorta. I know for a fact that Islam doesn't condone anything like honour killings, thats a given, so don't think I'm trying to stir up any anti-Islamic sentiment cos thats not my point at all. Personally I believe the majority are carried out by "muslims" and I use that in inverted commas because such people should never be able to consider themselves true muslims, or indeed Christians if thats the religion they claim to follow. But anyway you're, for obvious reasons, far more knowledgeable on the topic than myself so I'm happy to accept your main points about me confusing arabs with muslims are pretty much valid.

Your last point could do with a little clarification as you state "Islam is againt this" yet also cite the fact that christians are committing these crimes as a backup for your argument. I know you know this but christianity is obviously also anti-honour killings, and there's not been any evidence so far of christian honour killings being half as common as Muslim ones.

Anyhow, cheers for debating in a rational way and not jumping to conclusions, even tho you're probably well pissed off

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++


Well if you think I'm trying to correlate Islam with honour killings you've got me wrong.. well sorta. I know for a fact that Islam doesn't condone anything like honour killings, thats a given, so don't think I'm trying to stir up any anti-Islamic sentiment cos thats not my point at all. Personally I believe the majority are carried out by "muslims" and I use that in inverted commas because such people should never be able to consider themselves true muslims, or indeed Christians if thats the religion they claim to follow. But anyway you're, for obvious reasons, far more knowledgeable on the topic than myself so I'm happy to accept your main points about me confusing arabs with muslims are pretty much valid.

Your last point could do with a little clarification as you state "Islam is againt this" yet also cite the fact that christians are committing these crimes as a backup for your argument. I know you know this but christianity is obviously also anti-honour killings, and there's not been any evidence so far of christian honour killings being half as common as Muslim ones.

Anyhow, cheers for debating in a rational way and not jumping to conclusions, even tho you're probably well pissed off

First off, I'm not pissed off. I'd much rather give and take in a meaningful discussion (not just for the two of us) than be involved in BS thrown back and forth.

Your statements suggesting Islam "loopholes" threw me off a bit on what you thought.

I appologize if that statement you are reffering to was unclear. I actually said "Christian arabs" to emphasis that it's cultural more than religious. I speak on behalf of Islam that Islam does not support these inorderly crimes, while I also mentioned in an earlier post to Graham that "nobody is saying that this is the teaching of christianity."

 

[Azzurri7]

Well said M, you said what I had to say....

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++

Most Arabs are muslim, therefore, I can understand how you (MISTAKENLY) correlate the crime with the religion instead of the people. The fact that Christian arabs also do this, and Islam is against this supports my claim.

A glance at how Arabs (BEFORE ISLAM) used to treat their women:
1. They were sold like slaves.
2. A man can have an unlimited number of wives.
3. In the community, a recently orphaned girl would be married off (nomatter how old she was and even if she disagreed) to any man on a firt come first serve basis, so the man can take her family's fortune.
4. Worst of all, it was seen as a shame (much like these honor killings) to have a girl, so many newborn girls used to be burried alive in the desert the day they were born.

Islam came, and stopped all that. Of course, traces of mistreatment remain till this day out of IGNORANCE.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

Ah, the Jahiliyah times Majed.