Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Cronios, I would love to hear who you have in mind in terms of improving our team. Say we didn't get all of the players we signed this summer, who would you pick?? Lets hear it man, you negative nincompoop
Zapata for half the price we gave for Vucinic, bring back Giovinco to add depth in the left flank as he can play both as winger in a 4-2-4 and SS in 4-3-3
and Vargas who can cover LB and LW as well.
we could easily make this happen by avoid buying one of Quaq or Vucinic, just one of them, as Marotta is incompetent as a sales man and we knew that we are going to keep Iaq and Toni and DP and Amauri as subs.
 

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Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
I think we're all prepared for failure, we don't accept it but know it is one possibility because of what we work with on and off the field. But seeing the dark side of every single aspect of the club - even when overwhelmingly incorrect - because of this potential outcome, takes a special kind of person.
You are delusional if you believe that there are slight chances to fail and one may choose to ignore them and jst hope for the best.
The past 5 years should have tought you better...

With inferior coach and inferior player, objectively, the chances are against us.
But thats not only that, whats worse is that we make all the wrong steps, at building up a competitive squad for the future, thats whats really the sadest part of the story.

By keep investing on overrated and overpriced mediocre Italian players, seeling out the players who can contribute, but didnt manage to compensate for our weaklings, keep our weaklings and avoid upgrading them, lack vision and respect for a certain strategic plan, consume our resources to random opportunity targets we dont need and only serve ephimeral hype etc
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Iaq and Amaury are SS??? :sergio:
We don't look for CB and LKW :sergio:

You're incompetent.
So you consider them prolific finishers?
These two players, can, at least on theory create chances on their own, Iaq has a good header and can be played as a target man and can be considered a striker, but def not a top class finisher. Amauri scores once/season, he is strong and can dribble, but scoring was never his best attribute.
Toni is the only real finisher we have and only Matri has the characteristics that could be considered as a possible finisher as well.
I would prefer clear roles for our forwards, most of our forwards have dribbling abilities, but fail at finishing.
I believe we need a goal poacher the most, someone who can score more than 20 goals/season, not yet another fancy dribbler.
Therefore i believe that the signings of Iaq, Amauri, Quaq and Vucinic are a mistake.
I m still undecided on Matri, because he is still young and hopefully he will focus on scoring, as long as we have so many dribblers around him...
Well it's certainly not a fact we paid 16 Million cash plus 2 players for Bonucci.
So how much did we paid in your opinion?
the reported fee is 15.5mil and a price cuts to some of our players.
I'm such a dumb, delusional shit, aren't I? Felipe Melo is really a player we could have relied on when the going gets tough!!!!! Let's throw away our season when our midfield falls to bits!!!!!! You're not changing you mind? Well neither am I!!! Let's just sell the unsellable Vincenzo 'Glass' Iaquinta and Amauri the '€4m a year bench warmer'! Easy tasks!! But I'm sure you as mr. post calciopoli negativity expert would be able to do it easy!! Iaquinta to Anzhi for €15m and swap Ayew with Amauri right?




And before you say anything, no our post-calciopoli hasn't been acceptable by any standards. Only this season do I see a true improvement.


I don't get you, there's two weeks left in the mercato yet you say 'you asked for a better LB, LW and CB'. THE MERCATO IS NOT FINISHED. I know you think I'm some ridiculous, dumb, unknowledgeable Marotta fanboy but guess what? I'm not. I wanted Marotta's head on a stake not that long ago but I see now that this guy has a decent plan to get us into CL. It's not without flaws but this is our BEST MERCATO SINCE CALCIOPOLI. I guarantee you 100% that a CB and LW will be bought. But oh no, you'll just blah blah 2006-7 this and 2009-10 that and Marotta didn't buy any last season so he won't buy a CB and LW.


Ang again, you still instist that Vucinic and Vidal were the player we needed the most?
You still insist that a CB better than Bonucci wouldnt help our cause more.
You still insist that LB better than Ziegler wouldnt hhelp our cause more.
You still insist that a LW better than Martinez wouldnt help our cause more.


I never said these things, I said that we needed Vucinic and Vidal, but to be a pessimistic annoying little fuck, you just understood what I said to mean that I think that we need those two more than a CB, LB or LW. Well honestly, I would trade Vucinic for Alex, Vucinic for a good LW (Vargas etc) but not for a LB. You underestimate Ziegler hugely, I think you also forget that we have PAOLO DE CEGLIE, who believe it or not, is actually decent and when not injured produces good performances.


Quagliarella is not our 4th sub at all. You just make things up to be negative. He'll be a starter for a lot games and will get plenty of playing time. I think it's unfair to call one of Matri, Quag or Vucinic a bench watmer since they are all capable starters.

One thing I also don't understand about you, you are ALWAYS negative, I don't think I've ever seen you praise Marotta for buying Lichtsteiner, who in case you didn't know plays RIGHT-BACK. Which was probably our worst position last season and now we have one of the top 2-3 right backs in Serie A. You never praised Marotta for getting Pirlo for free. There's not much difference in passing up Pirlo for free than there is Xavi for free. Pirlo is the best passing regista in the world. Surely that's an improvement over Aquilani.

The team you it seems like you suggest we buy is far more unstable than our sqaud right now with our current team plus + Alex and LW.


JUST TELL ME ONE THING: WHO WOULD YOU HAVE BOUGHT?

AND I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT CAPS!!!!

Also, if we didn't buy any CMs this year what would our midfield look like? Marchisio-Melo with a backup of Sissoko? Sounds like a plan man!!!!
What about our fowards? Matri-Quagliarella. Don't get me wrong that's great, but what if Quag gets injured again? Let's kill Del Piero and make him play full matches! But of course with all the money saved on CM we could have bought Rossi! This is looking even better now! That midfield looks sexy! Claudio 'Casper' Marchisio and Felipe 'The Quitter' Melo! And we all know how last season went with no good regista (Aquilani mostly failed, not his fault, he plays best in 3 man mid).


But alas, I am a fool, our mercato is a complete failure, we have added no good players, no weaknesses have been addressed, we bought useless shit CMs and a SS with no talent (Vucinic), and for some strange reason, Juve's mercato closes 2 weeks earlier than everyone elses.
Again and again you are missing the point, i said that considering the transfers made so far, this mercato sucks.
If things change, i will also change my opinion, i those 2 players come, then i can agree with you, but what if they dont, are you pleased with what we have done, considering those two players were sacrificed to buy the 2-4 uneeded ones?
You claim it is not horrible atm, because you are convinced that we are going to buy 2 more players, you are the one who is basing his judgement on an assumptions, i judge it, as i see it!

I also have the courage to state my opinion, before it actual happens.
For ex, on giacherini, i ve stated that it would be a mistake of epic proportion to priorise a mediocre forward, as a 8th option, over a decent RW starter or a decent CB.
Failing to sign a decent LW, just because we have wasted resources and time at buying a 8th forward, is IMO the worst possible option we have atm.
Thats my opinion before it happens, as it is just a possibility, if this happens in the end, i wont change mind, you cannot call it a negative thought at everything we do, when i say, that imo the worst course of action atm is the transfer of a forward and then it happens exactly like that.

When the transfer window started, i wrote on the wishlist thread, that i hope that this year the extremely stacked up and stable SS and CM positions will not absorve more part of our resources and time and hopefully we will focus our max attention this time on the defense and the LW.
If Marotta was spending the majority of our resources and efforts at signing quality starter defenders and a quality starter defender, i would be pleased.
But what he have done, quite the only thing that i would consider the worse possible course of action, again focused the majority of budget on yet another CM and SS and again have signed a free LB, no CB and no LW (at least so far)
How can you accuse me of being a negativist, when i ve been screaming for 5 consecutive years, that we must for once stop spending on our cash on new CMs and SS each every year and buy a quality starter LW, LB and CB?

Of course i praised Marotta for the acquisition of Lilcht, i really rate him and i believe that his was a step on a right direction.
Finally a quality starter RB, i ve been asking for one, since Thuram moved in the center of our defense.
That was by far the best transfer of the season IMO!!!
Indeed Vidal and maybe Vucinic may be better players than Licht, but we could do without them and i do not consider them a massive upgrade to Melo and Quaq.
Whilst a quality starter RB was a must have, finally a permanent solution to a cronic issue.

I was dissappointed on Ziegler, i do not rate him, and i believe that we should invest more on that position, although Ziehl;ie may be better than Grosso, DC and Traore, we should rather opt for a permanent solution to yet another cronic and critical issue, that has been haunting us since Molinaro.
We have been avoiding to invest into permanent solution over there, for the past 6 years and i do not understand the reason we are keep wasting time and risc with cheap/free/loaned quick fixes.
I would rather prefer to add a Ziegler like forward as depth (giacherini) instead of Vucinic and invest the money we gave for him to a real upgrade on the defense, players like Zapata could come as low as 8mil, so we could buy a starter CB and a starter LB, way much better than Ziegler, for the ammount we gave on Vucinic, or at least one of them instead of Quaq.

I ve been asking for this for 6years, it is not my fault that we have been overlooking it all this time and we keep wasting our budget only on those 2 positions (CM and SS)

I may sound negative because i repeat my self, but it is not because i want to, it is because we are keep repeating the same mistake each and every year.
If this change, of course my stance will change too.
It is unfair to accuse me now, when i ve stated right from 1june, that i would consider the worst possible course of action the lack of investment on the defense and the waste of resources on CMs and SSs again.
I also said that the previous seasons and i also will say that for the next season, will you accuse me again next season, if we again sign a free LB, no LW (or Martinez, Perotti like), gibe another chance to Bonucci/Barzagli instead of at least try a cheap non Italian Lugano/Alex and again invest most of our transfer budget on a new CM and a new SS, while we offload for or almost free Vidal and Vucinic?
Because that exactly what happened this year...
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,390
So you consider them prolific finishers?
These two players, can, at least on theory create chances on their own, Iaq has a good header and can be played as a target man and can be considered a striker, but def not a top class finisher. Amauri scores once/season, he is strong and can dribble, but scoring was never his best attribute.
Toni is the only real finisher we have and only Matri has the characteristics that could be considered as a possible finisher as well.
I would prefer clear roles for our forwards, most of our forwards have dribbling abilities, but fail at finishing.
I believe we need a goal poacher the most, someone who can score more than 20 goals/season, not yet another fancy dribbler.
Therefore i believe that the signings of Iaq, Amauri, Quaq and Vucinic are a mistake.
I m still undecided on Matri, because he is still young and hopefully he will focus on scoring, as long as we have so many dribblers around him...

So how much did we paid in your opinion?
the reported fee is 15.5mil and a price cuts to some of our players.

Again and again you are missing the point, i said that considering the transfers made so far, this mercato sucks.
If things change, i will also change my opinion, i those 2 players come, then i can agree with you, but what if they dont, are you pleased with what we have done, considering those two players were sacrificed to buy the 2-4 uneeded ones?
You claim it is not horrible atm, because you are convinced that we are going to buy 2 more players, you are the one who is basing his judgement on an assumptions, i judge it, as i see it!

I also have the courage to state my opinion, before it actual happens.
For ex, on giacherini, i ve stated that it would be a mistake of epic proportion to priorise a mediocre forward, as a 8th option, over a decent RW starter or a decent CB.
Failing to sign a decent LW, just because we have wasted resources and time at buying a 8th forward, is IMO the worst possible option we have atm.
Thats my opinion before it happens, as it is just a possibility, if this happens in the end, i wont change mind, you cannot call it a negative thought at everything we do, when i say, that imo the worst course of action atm is the transfer of a forward and then it happens exactly like that.

When the transfer window started, i wrote on the wishlist thread, that i hope that this year the extremely stacked up and stable SS and CM positions will not absorve more part of our resources and time and hopefully we will focus our max attention this time on the defense and the LW.
If Marotta was spending the majority of our resources and efforts at signing quality starter defenders and a quality starter defender, i would be pleased.
But what he have done, quite the only thing that i would consider the worse possible course of action, again focused the majority of budget on yet another CM and SS and again have signed a free LB, no CB and no LW (at least so far)
How can you accuse me of being a negativist, when i ve been screaming for 5 consecutive years, that we must for once stop spending on our cash on new CMs and SS each every year and buy a quality starter LW, LB and CB?

Of course i praised Marotta for the acquisition of Lilcht, i really rate him and i believe that his was a step on a right direction.
Finally a quality starter RB, i ve been asking for one, since Thuram moved in the center of our defense.
That was by far the best transfer of the season IMO!!!
Indeed Vidal and maybe Vucinic may be better players than Licht, but we could do without them and i do not consider them a massive upgrade to Melo and Quaq.
Whilst a quality starter RB was a must have, finally a permanent solution to a cronic issue.

I was dissappointed on Ziegler, i do not rate him, and i believe that we should invest more on that position, although Ziehl;ie may be better than Grosso, DC and Traore, we should rather opt for a permanent solution to yet another cronic and critical issue, that has been haunting us since Molinaro.
We have been avoiding to invest into permanent solution over there, for the past 6 years and i do not understand the reason we are keep wasting time and risc with cheap/free/loaned quick fixes.
I would rather prefer to add a Ziegler like forward as depth (giacherini) instead of Vucinic and invest the money we gave for him to a real upgrade on the defense, players like Zapata could come as low as 8mil, so we could buy a starter CB and a starter LB, way much better than Ziegler, for the ammount we gave on Vucinic, or at least one of them instead of Quaq.

I ve been asking for this for 6years, it is not my fault that we have been overlooking it all this time and we keep wasting our budget only on those 2 positions (CM and SS)

I may sound negative because i repeat my self, but it is not because i want to, it is because we are keep repeating the same mistake each and every year.
If this change, of course my stance will change too.
It is unfair to accuse me now, when i ve stated right from 1june, that i would consider the worst possible course of action the lack of investment on the defense and the waste of resources on CMs and SSs again.
I also said that the previous seasons and i also will say that for the next season, will you accuse me again next season, if we again sign a free LB, no LW (or Martinez, Perotti like), gibe another chance to Bonucci/Barzagli instead of at least try a cheap non Italian Lugano/Alex and again invest most of our transfer budget on a new CM and a new SS, while we offload for or almost free Vidal and Vucinic?
Because that exactly what happened this year...
Now tell me this wasn't supposed to be quoted!

I hope others also quote this for truth and the delusionists to learn.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
So you consider them prolific finishers?
These two players, can, at least on theory create chances on their own, Iaq has a good header and can be played as a target man and can be considered a striker, but def not a top class finisher. Amauri scores once/season, he is strong and can dribble, but scoring was never his best attribute.
Toni is the only real finisher we have and only Matri has the characteristics that could be considered as a possible finisher as well.
I would prefer clear roles for our forwards, most of our forwards have dribbling abilities, but fail at finishing.
I believe we need a goal poacher the most, someone who can score more than 20 goals/season, not yet another fancy dribbler.
Therefore i believe that the signings of Iaq, Amauri, Quaq and Vucinic are a mistake.
I m still undecided on Matri, because he is still young and hopefully he will focus on scoring, as long as we have so many dribblers around him...

So how much did we paid in your opinion?
the reported fee is 15.5mil and a price cuts to some of our players.

Again and again you are missing the point, i said that considering the transfers made so far, this mercato sucks.
If things change, i will also change my opinion, i those 2 players come, then i can agree with you, but what if they dont, are you pleased with what we have done, considering those two players were sacrificed to buy the 2-4 uneeded ones?
You claim it is not horrible atm, because you are convinced that we are going to buy 2 more players, you are the one who is basing his judgement on an assumptions, i judge it, as i see it!

I also have the courage to state my opinion, before it actual happens.
For ex, on giacherini, i ve stated that it would be a mistake of epic proportion to priorise a mediocre forward, as a 8th option, over a decent RW starter or a decent CB.
Failing to sign a decent LW, just because we have wasted resources and time at buying a 8th forward, is IMO the worst possible option we have atm.
Thats my opinion before it happens, as it is just a possibility, if this happens in the end, i wont change mind, you cannot call it a negative thought at everything we do, when i say, that imo the worst course of action atm is the transfer of a forward and then it happens exactly like that.

When the transfer window started, i wrote on the wishlist thread, that i hope that this year the extremely stacked up and stable SS and CM positions will not absorve more part of our resources and time and hopefully we will focus our max attention this time on the defense and the LW.
If Marotta was spending the majority of our resources and efforts at signing quality starter defenders and a quality starter defender, i would be pleased.
But what he have done, quite the only thing that i would consider the worse possible course of action, again focused the majority of budget on yet another CM and SS and again have signed a free LB, no CB and no LW (at least so far)
How can you accuse me of being a negativist, when i ve been screaming for 5 consecutive years, that we must for once stop spending on our cash on new CMs and SS each every year and buy a quality starter LW, LB and CB?

Of course i praised Marotta for the acquisition of Lilcht, i really rate him and i believe that his was a step on a right direction.
Finally a quality starter RB, i ve been asking for one, since Thuram moved in the center of our defense.
That was by far the best transfer of the season IMO!!!
Indeed Vidal and maybe Vucinic may be better players than Licht, but we could do without them and i do not consider them a massive upgrade to Melo and Quaq.
Whilst a quality starter RB was a must have, finally a permanent solution to a cronic issue.

I was dissappointed on Ziegler, i do not rate him, and i believe that we should invest more on that position, although Ziehl;ie may be better than Grosso, DC and Traore, we should rather opt for a permanent solution to yet another cronic and critical issue, that has been haunting us since Molinaro.
We have been avoiding to invest into permanent solution over there, for the past 6 years and i do not understand the reason we are keep wasting time and risc with cheap/free/loaned quick fixes.
I would rather prefer to add a Ziegler like forward as depth (giacherini) instead of Vucinic and invest the money we gave for him to a real upgrade on the defense, players like Zapata could come as low as 8mil, so we could buy a starter CB and a starter LB, way much better than Ziegler, for the ammount we gave on Vucinic, or at least one of them instead of Quaq.

I ve been asking for this for 6years, it is not my fault that we have been overlooking it all this time and we keep wasting our budget only on those 2 positions (CM and SS)

I may sound negative because i repeat my self, but it is not because i want to, it is because we are keep repeating the same mistake each and every year.
If this change, of course my stance will change too.
It is unfair to accuse me now, when i ve stated right from 1june, that i would consider the worst possible course of action the lack of investment on the defense and the waste of resources on CMs and SSs again.
I also said that the previous seasons and i also will say that for the next season, will you accuse me again next season, if we again sign a free LB, no LW (or Martinez, Perotti like), gibe another chance to Bonucci/Barzagli instead of at least try a cheap non Italian Lugano/Alex and again invest most of our transfer budget on a new CM and a new SS, while we offload for or almost free Vidal and Vucinic?
Because that exactly what happened this year...
...
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,089
The interesting part in all of this is during the time Cronios has been going all nuclear on this forum we've actually finished 7th twice in a row. Just sayin'..
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
The interesting part in all of this is during the time Cronios has been going all nuclear on this forum we've actually finished 7th twice in a row. Just sayin'..
Some things we already know and those things we don't need Cronios telling us because we already know it.
 

ZoSo

Senior Member
Jul 11, 2011
41,656
I am 110% sure we will sign a CB, either Alex or Lugano, most likely Alex. Marotta knows we need one. Same with LW, although I won't be completely convinced if we buy Giaccherini. Vargas/Perotti/Bastos would satisfy me, but who's to say that Giaccherini won't turn out like Matri for us? He wouldn't be a great signing but not a terrible one either.

I think you are missing the point with midfield. We have only spent €10.5M for the Pirlo-Vidal midfield. If we kept Melo and played Marchisio-Melo, we could have €25m for a LW. Mata is going to Chelsea for €30m...The improvement in midfield far outweighs the improvement if we bought a LW who is worth €10m more. The best winger under €25m that we could buy is probably either Bastos, Marin or Carlos Eduardo. None of them are a massive improvement over say Vargas or Perotti and are in the same price range. Without sacrificing other postions the most we can spend on a winger is about €15m. Then next year if we make CL we can buy a WC winger worth €30m+ such as Ribery, Hazard, Mata, Di Maria, Hulk, Nani etc.

I would prefer to have Vidal-Pirlo and say Vargas or Bastos on the left wing than Melo-Marchisio and Mata on the left wing. The first is far more balanced and a lot less risky than having an unstable Melo and ghost Marchisio in the middle. In that system, the wingers would have to come up very deep to get the ball since neither Melo or Marchisio have great passing ability like Pirlo.

SS, well I already said why that's necessary because of injuries. If we didn't buy Vucinic, our foward line would be the only position where we would have 2 players capable of starting.

GK: Gigi, Storari, Manninger
RB: Licht, Sorensen, Grygera, Motta,
CB: Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli, Sorensen, + new CB (Alex)
LB: Ziegler, De Ceglie, Grosso, Chiellini, Grygera
RM: Krasic, Pepe, Pasquato, Martinez
CM: Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Pazienza
LM: Pepe, Pasquato, Martinez, Marchisio + new signing.
Foward line: Matri & Quagliarella

Del Piero can't be expected to play 90mins anymore, Amauri is leaving and Iaquinta as I said is made of glass and cannot be relied upon for usually more than 4-5 games at the very maximum without getting injured. Toni is 34 and is really not someone to be relied for whole games either. Out of that squad, I doubt many will leave, most likely either Manninger or Storari and Grosso besides the fowards.

Marotta is trying to build the base for a very good squad. By the end of next season, all the deadwood will be out (Iaquinta, Amauri, Grygera, Grosso and maybe Bonucci, Motta, Martinez, Barzagli & Pepe) and we will have a very strong squad which we can add WC players to. It IS the most logical way to go about things with our budget. We can't afford to buy WC players for every position.

I hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel now. But maybe it's just a freight train coming your way. (I don't know if this sounds stupid I just got home from a party and I'm drunk).
 

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