Giuseppe Marotta (95 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

Buffon was not world class when we bought him, he was a player of immense promise and talent which is why we paid what we did, same with zidane, trezeguet and quite a few other players mentioned.

I don't really care whether they were "world class" or not. Buffon was already a star, with immense potential to become the best in the world at his position. So was Trezeguet. FFS, he scored 52 goals in 93 matches for Monaco before the transfer, and was already a solid contributor to French NT, and the same summer we bought him, he scored the Euro 2000 golden goal against Italy. It really doesn't matter if we made them world-class or not. We paid the fee of world-class players for pretty much everyone I listed aside from Zidane and Davids. Even Davids cost a decent penny for the era.

 

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[K.O.]

Let's put it this way. Trez was certainly as "world-class" when we bought him as James Rodriguez is currently.

Well, you make a great delusional Real Madrid fan then.

 

[j0ker]

In the next episode..

Juventus signed WC Barzagli.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

]I don't really care whether they were "world class" or not. Buffon was already a star, with immense potential to become the best in the world at his position. So was Trezeguet. [/B]FFS, he scored 52 goals in 93 matches for Monaco before the transfer, and was already a solid contributor to French NT, and the same summer we bought him, he scored the Euro 2000 golden goal against Italy. It really doesn't matter if we made them world-class or not. We paid the fee of world-class players for pretty much everyone I listed aside from Zidane and Davids. Even Davids cost a decent penny for the era.

now you've changed your argument, i never denied for one moment that the likes of Buffon and Trez were players of immense potential and talent at the time we bought them which is reflected on what we paid for them, but prior to this post you had them down as established world class players and by that i mean equivalent of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are today which they were not

 

[Post Ironic]

Well, you make a great delusional Real Madrid fan then.

I'm a Real Madrid fan now, because I'm a realist about Juventus' spending history. Until the last 10 years, we were one of the highest spending clubs in all of Europe. From the late 70s until 2004 we were one of the highest spending clubs in all Europe.

People need to stop parading this myth that we never spent big and only developed homegrown talent with very occasional big signings. It's just not true. We never bought a lot of 28-30 year old stars, but we spent big on a huge number of James Rodriguez, Toni Kroos, Isco, type and age players. We bought a lot of early to mid twenties stars (with potential to become world-class) for large fees.

 

[Jem83]

In the next episode..

Juventus signed WC Barzagli.

 

[Post Ironic]

now you've changed your argument, i never denied for one moment that the likes of Buffon and Trez were players of immense potential and talent at the time we bought them which is reflected on what we paid for them, but prior to this post you had them down as established world class players and by that i mean equivalent of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are today which they were not

I wasn't trying to say we were buying Ronaldo or Messi. The advent of that type of transfer is a very modern thing. It never existed until the Zidane purchase. However. Paying 50 mil for Buffon in 2002 is easily equivalent to the fee Madrid just spent 12 years later on Rodriguez.

My argument was that we were one of the highest spending clubs in all of Europe for the entire period of the late 70s until our relegation. People are trying to suggest we were never big spenders. We were.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I wasn't trying to say we were buying Ronaldo or Messi. The advent of that type of transfer is a very modern thing. It never existed until the Zidane purchase. However. Paying 50 mil for Buffon in 2002 is easily equivalent to the fee Madrid just spent 12 years later on Rodriguez.

My argument was that we were one of the highest spending clubs in all of Europe for the entire period of the late 70s until our relegation. People are trying to suggest we were never big spenders. We were.

 

[j0ker]

We never bought a lot of 28-30 year old stars, but we spent big on a huge number of James Rodriguez, Toni Kroos, Isco, type and age players. We bought a lot of early to mid twenties stars (with potential to become world-class) for large fees.

O'rely?

If you didn't go full cronios on us maybe you woukd have noticied that we were talking about Zidane, Ronaldo, Kaka, Bale, Ibrahimovic, Cavani type of players. Already WC players at the time they were bought.

 

[Post Ironic]

I mean, in 1957 we spent the then world-record transfer fee on Omar Sivori from River Plate. 10 million pesos (90,000 pounds).

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I wasn't trying to say we were buying Ronaldo or Messi. The advent of that type of transfer is a very modern thing. It never existed until the Zidane purchase. However. Paying 50 mil for Buffon in 2002 is easily equivalent to the fee Madrid just spent 12 years later on Rodriguez.

My argument was that we were one of the highest spending clubs in all of Europe for the entire period of the late 70s until our relegation. People are trying to suggest we were never big spenders. We were.

Right ok that i agree with, but that was reflected upon the strength of the league at the time, just as now the economy within Serie A is weak in comparison to the other top european leagues there for this is what all the Italian clubs are having to work within

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Right ok that i agree with, but that was reflected upon the strength of the league at the time, just as now the economy within Serie A is weak in comparison to the other top european leagues there for this is what all the Italian clubs are having to work within

thats fine but lets not rewrite history to make us look like some glorified version of udinese

 

[j0ker]

I mean, in 1957 we spent the then world-record transfer fee on Omar Sivori from River Plate. 10 million pesos (90,000 pounds).

Real fucking Madrid broke the record twice with Ronaldo and Bale in like 5-6 years(?) and you mention Sivori which happened 60 years ago.

You surely know how to make your arguments sound lame.

 

[Post Ironic]

Right ok that i agree with, but that was reflected upon the strength of the league at the time, just as now the economy within Serie A is weak in comparison to the other top european leagues there for this is what all the Italian clubs are having to work within

Agreed.

The problem is, if we want long-term, and consistent European success, eventually we will have to start spending again. Our team will age, and our luck will only hold for so long with free transfers, and grabbing youth for next to nothing.

We need to, at the very least be able pay market value for and sign young stars on the edge of being world-class. And currently we are far from able, it seems. Our entire history is based upon that model. Not buying young completely unknowns (rare), nor developing players through the youth ranks from a very early age (even rarer). We need to have the ability to spend 30-40 mil on players like James Rodriguez (Monaco purchase), Isco, Kroos, Reus, Jovetic, Sanchez (before Barca move), and other such 20-24 year olds who aren't quite WC yet, and therefore won't cost 50 mil plus.

- - - Updated - - -

Real $#@!ing Madrid broke the record twice with Ronaldo and Bale in like 5-6 years(?) and you mention Sivori which happened 60 years ago.

You surely know how to make your arguments sound lame.

And 12 years ago we spent 50 million euros on a Goalkeeper. What's your point? Mine is simple. I'm saying we had a 50 year history of being one the biggest spending clubs in Europe before Calciopoli happened. We didn't have some amazing youth system that churned out all our stars. And that is not going to make us a European power, not on a sustainable level. Nor are free transfers, and top signings being less than 20mil rated players.

 

[Vlad]

In the next episode..

Juventus signed WC Barzagli.

 

[Post Ironic]

Real $#@!ing Madrid broke the record twice with Ronaldo and Bale in like 5-6 years(?) and you mention Sivori which happened 60 years ago.

You surely know how to make your arguments sound lame.

You want the evolution of the transfer record...

In 1957 we broke it with Sivori.

In 1968 we broke it with Anastasi.

In 1976 we broke it with Rossi.

In 1990 we broke it with Baggio.

In 1992 we broke it with Vialli.

SO what about Madrid breaking the record twice in 5 years. We broke it twice in 3 years.

From 1952 to 2000 the transfer record was set 22 times. Italian clubs set it 18 of those times. Hence the reason Italy was so successful in European football for that period of time. Especially the late 70s to mid 2000s.

- - - Updated - - -

PS. The summer we sold Zidane, we spent over 177 million on transfers. We brought in 135 mil by selling Zidane and Inzaghi at big profits and Kovacevic at a loss. And then spent quite a bit more.

The biggest mistake we made in that window was selling Inzaghi to Milan for 37 mil and then spending 25 mil on Salas. So stupid. We could have kept Inzaghi, and not gone for Salas. All for a measly 12 mil.

 

[Ocelot]

PS. The summer we sold Zidane, we spent over 177 million on transfers. We brought in 135 mil by selling Zidane and Inzaghi at big profits and Kovacevic at a loss. And then spent quite a bit more.

The biggest mistake we made in that window was selling Inzaghi to Milan for 37 mil and then spending 25 mil on Salas. So stupid. We could have kept Inzaghi, and not gone for Salas. All for a measly 12 mil.

Salas was very highly rated back then, flops happen from time to time. It wasn't a bad deal at the time it was made, but hindsight's a bitch.

Agreed.

The problem is, if we want long-term, and consistent European success, eventually we will have to start spending again. Our team will age, and our luck will only hold for so long with free transfers, and grabbing youth for next to nothing.

We need to, at the very least be able pay market value for and sign young stars on the edge of being world-class. And currently we are far from able, it seems. Our entire history is based upon that model. Not buying young completely unknowns (rare), nor developing players through the youth ranks from a very early age (even rarer). We need to have the ability to spend 30-40 mil on players like James Rodriguez (Monaco purchase), Isco, Kroos, Reus, Jovetic, Sanchez (before Barca move), and other such 20-24 year olds who aren't quite WC yet, and therefore won't cost 50 mil plus.

Right now we're consistently and, in my opinion, successful working towards being able to do just that.
At the moment however we just can't afford such signings, if that's what you're implying, and they would make us financially insolvent relatively quickly.

 

[Post Ironic]

Salas was very highly rated back then, flops happen from time to time. It wasn't a bad deal at the time it was made, but hindsight's a bitch.



Right now we're consistently and, in my opinion, successful working towards being able to do just that.
At the moment however we just can't afford such signings, if that's what you're implying, and they would make us financially insolvent relatively quickly.

I'm not saying we can afford them, sadly we cannot. It's just that we have to get there in the next year or two if we don't want to run into a really bad transition period. We have quite a few aging starters, and while we own youth that has potential, as was said about Salas, flops happen. We have could probably get through next summer's mercato without huge investments and still qualify for UCL that next season, but come 2016 summer mercato, we have to be in a place where we can start buying 25-40 mil players of the type I mentioned. A 20-24 year old star (that has already performed at a high level), that has potential to become world class generally is in that price range. We cannot depend long-term on getting free or relatively inexpensive youth that haven't shown anything yet, and expecting them to become our world-class players. It happens, but eventually we'll run into a few flops, and we need the more guaranteed purchases to offset the damage done by the potential that flops.

 

[JuveJay]

In the past is the key here.

People talking about Charles, Platini and Boniek.

Seems like I am the only one without a VCR here.

Juve is a team that makes stars, not one that buys them. And as I said I don't count buying one every ten years.

Our 'galacticos' (bit of a shit term because our team was far more rounded) policy basically ended when Moggi took over, but we didn't stop buying excellent players. They weren't Bale's or Ronaldo's, but players we could develop further. From then until Calciopoli, our notable (financial) signings:

Deschamps (₤3.5bn - Marseille)
Sousa (₤10bn - Sporting)
Ferrara (₤9.4bn - Napoli)
Jugovic (₤8bn - Sampdoria)
Sorin (₤1.6bn - Argentinos Juniors)
Dimas (₤1.5bn - Benfica)
Boksic (₤14bn - Lazio)
Zidane (₤7.5bn - Bordeaux)
Vieri (₤7.3bn - Atalanta)
Amoruso (₤7bn - Padova)
Pecchia (₤10bn - Napoli)
Birindelli (₤4.5bn – Empoli)
Inzaghi (₤20bn - Atalanta)
Fonseca (₤9bn - Roma)
Davids (₤9bn - Milan)
Zalayeta (₤5bn - Peñarol)
Tudor (₤8bn - Hajduk Split)
Blanchard (₤10bn - Metz)
Esnaider (₤12bn - Espanyol)
=====================
Henry (€11.5m - Monaco)
Van der Sar (€7.5m - Ajax)
Bachini (€6.7m - Udinese)
Oliseh (€9m - Ajax)
Zambrotta (€15m - Bari)
Kovacevic (€20m - Real Sociedad)
Maresca (€5m - WBA)
O'Neill (€9m - Cagliari)
Trezeguet (€22.5m - Monaco)
Buffon (€51.6m - Parma)
Thuram (€33.4m - Parma)
Nedved (€33.4m - Lazio)
Salas (€25m – Lazio)
Zenoni (€15.6m – Milan)
Camoranesi (€8.5m – Verona)
Di Vaio (€32m – Parma)
Miccoli (€9.5m – Fiorentina)
Appiah (€8m – Parma)
Legrottaglie (€7.55m – Chievo)
Emerson (€28m – Roma)
Ibrahimovic (€16m – Ajax)
Vieira (€20m – Arsenal)

 

[j0ker]

I understand that, but I was thinking about players like Zidane, Ronaldo and Bale that Real Madrid got.

It seems that we misunderstood eachother in this thread.

And to be honest as much I would enjoy buying an established WC player, I still prefer getting a player like Vidal and make him WC in 1-2 years, and keep him of course.