General TV (4 Viewers)

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
49,141
I can accept most opinions, but The Wire sucking is NOT one of them. Does not compute on any level.


I recommended it to many, and even for the few who didnt like it as much, acknowledged it's high quality, more complained of slow pace.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
27,304
I can accept most opinions, but The Wire sucking is NOT one of them. Does not compute on any level.


I recommended it to many, and even for the few who didnt like it as much, acknowledged it's high quality, more complained of slow pace.
One of the best shows of all time. Bizarro world to read someone say that it sucks.

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No you just have really really bad taste, sorry
:agree:
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
59,500
Subscription only mayn, can you copy it here?
At about 9 p.m. April 19, 1989, a large group of young men gathered on the corner of 110th Street and Fifth Avenue for the purpose of robbing and beating innocent people in Central Park. There were more than 30 rioters, and the woman known as the “Central Park jogger,” Trisha Meili, was not their only victim. Eight others were attacked, including two men who were beaten so savagely that they required hospitalization for head injuries.

Reporters and filmmakers have explored this story countless times from numerous perspectives, almost always focusing on five attackers and one female jogger. But each has missed the larger picture of that terrible night: a riot in the dark that resulted in the apprehension of more than 15 teenagers who set upon multiple victims. That a sociopath named Matias Reyes confessed in 2002 to the rape of Ms. Meili, and that the district attorney consequently vacated the charges against the five after they had served their sentences, has led some of these reporters and filmmakers to assume the prosecution had no basis on which to charge the five suspects in 1989. So it is with filmmaker Ava DuVernay in the Netflixminiseries “When They See Us,” a series so full of distortions and falsehoods as to be an outright fabrication.
It shouldn’t have been hard for Ms. DuVernay to discover the truth. The facts of the original case are documented in a 117-page decision by New York State Supreme Court Justice Thomas Galligan, in sworn testimony given in two trials and affirmed by two appellate courts, and in sworn depositions of more than 95 witnesses—including the five themselves. Instead she has written an utterly false narrative involving an evil mastermind (me) and the falsely accused (the five).
I was one of the supervisors who oversaw the team that prosecuted the teenagers apprehended after that horrific night of violence. Ms. DuVernay’s film attempts to portray me as an overzealous prosecutor and a bigot, the police as incompetent or worse, and the five suspects as innocent of all charges against them. None of this is true.
Consider the film’s most egregious falsehoods. “When They See Us” repeatedly portrays the suspects as being held without food, deprived of their parents’ company and advice, and not even allowed to use the bathroom. If that had been true, surely they would have brought those issues up and prevailed in pretrial hearings on the voluntariness of their statements, as well as in their lawsuit against the city. They didn’t, because it never happened.

In the first episode, the film portrays me at the precinct station house before dawn on April 20, the day after the attacks, unethically engineering the police investigation and making racist remarks. In reality, I didn’t arrive until 8 p.m., 22 hours after the police investigation began, did not run the investigation, and never made any of the comments the screenwriter attributes to me.

Ms. DuVernay depicts suspects Yusef Salaam and Korey Wise being arrested on the street. In fact, two detectives went to the door of the Salaam apartment on the night of the 20th because both had been named by other rioters as attackers in multiple assaults.

The film claims that when Mr. Salaam’s mother arrived and told police her son was only 15—meaning they could not question him without a parent in the room—I tried to stop her, demanding to see a birth certificate. The truth is that Mr. Salaam himself claimed to be 16 and even had a forged bus pass to “prove” it. When I heard his mother say he was 15, I immediately halted his questioning. This is all supported by sworn testimony.

Ms. DuVernay would have you believe the only evidence against the suspects was their allegedly forced confessions. That is not true. There is, for example, the African-American woman who testified at the trial—and again during the 2002 re-investigation—that when Korey Wise called her brother, he told her that he had held the jogger down and felt her breasts while others attacked her. There were blood stains and dirt on clothing of some of the five. And then there are the statements of more than a dozen of the other kids who participated in the park rampage. Although none of the others admitted joining in the rape of Trisha Meili, they admitted attacking male victims and a couple on a tandem bike, and each of them named some or all of the five as joining them.

Nor does the film note that Mr. Salaam took the stand at his trial, represented by a lawyer chosen and paid for by his mother, and testified that he had gone into the park carrying a 14-inch metal pipe—the same type of weapon that was used to bludgeon both a male schoolteacher and Ms. Meili. Mr. Reyes’s confession changed none of this. He admitted being the man whose DNA had been left in the jogger’s body and on her clothing, but the two juries that heard those facts knew the main assailant in the rape had not been caught. The five were charged as accomplices, as persons “acting in concert” with each other and with the then-unknown man who raped the jogger, not as those who actually performed the act. In their original confessions—later recanted—they admitted to grabbing her breasts and legs, and two of them admitted to climbing on top of her and simulating intercourse. Semen was found on the inside of their clothing, corroborating those confessions.

Mr. Reyes’s confession, DNA match and claim that he acted alone required that the rape charges against the five be vacated. I agreed with that decision, and still do. But the other charges, for crimes against other victims, should not have been vacated. Nothing Mr. Reyes said exonerated these five of those attacks. And there was certainly more than enough evidence to support those convictions of first-degree assault, robbery, riot and other charges.

It is a wonderful thing that these five men have taken themselves to responsible positions and community respect. That Ms. DuVernay ignored so much of the truth about the gang of 30 and about the suffering of their victims—and that her film includes so many falsehoods—is nonetheless an outrage.

Ms. DuVernay does not define me, and her film does not speak the truth.
 

Stevie

..........
Mar 30, 2003
12,743
I can accept most opinions, but The Wire sucking is NOT one of them. Does not compute on any level.


I recommended it to many, and even for the few who didnt like it as much, acknowledged it's high quality, more complained of slow pace.
Some of my favourite shows were slow paced. I just didn't enjoy it. I think I left it too late to watch it and the experience wasn't the same because I've been spoilt with how well modern shows are made. When was the last time you guys watched it? And even so you would still be blinded by nostalgia. Im sticking with it because of the universal acclaim but I'm not impressed so far.


Has anyone seen the new Deadwood movie? Feels great to finally have a conclusion. The last line in the show was one of the best ever.
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
68,940
Some of my favourite shows were slow paced. I just didn't enjoy it. I think I left it too late to watch it and the experience wasn't the same because I've been spoilt with how well modern shows are made. When was the last time you guys watched it? And even so you would still be blinded by nostalgia. Im sticking with it because of the universal acclaim but I'm not impressed so far.


Has anyone seen the new Deadwood movie? Feels great to finally have a conclusion. The last line in the show was one of the best ever.
I think I’m going to rewatch the series and then hit up the movie. It’s been a while.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,573
At about 9 p.m. April 19, 1989, a large group of young men gathered on the corner of 110th Street and Fifth Avenue for the purpose of robbing and beating innocent people in Central Park. There were more than 30 rioters, and the woman known as the “Central Park jogger,” Trisha Meili, was not their only victim. Eight others were attacked, including two men who were beaten so savagely that they required hospitalization for head injuries.

Reporters and filmmakers have explored this story countless times from numerous perspectives, almost always focusing on five attackers and one female jogger. But each has missed the larger picture of that terrible night: a riot in the dark that resulted in the apprehension of more than 15 teenagers who set upon multiple victims. That a sociopath named Matias Reyes confessed in 2002 to the rape of Ms. Meili, and that the district attorney consequently vacated the charges against the five after they had served their sentences, has led some of these reporters and filmmakers to assume the prosecution had no basis on which to charge the five suspects in 1989. So it is with filmmaker Ava DuVernay in the Netflixminiseries “When They See Us,” a series so full of distortions and falsehoods as to be an outright fabrication.
It shouldn’t have been hard for Ms. DuVernay to discover the truth. The facts of the original case are documented in a 117-page decision by New York State Supreme Court Justice Thomas Galligan, in sworn testimony given in two trials and affirmed by two appellate courts, and in sworn depositions of more than 95 witnesses—including the five themselves. Instead she has written an utterly false narrative involving an evil mastermind (me) and the falsely accused (the five).
I was one of the supervisors who oversaw the team that prosecuted the teenagers apprehended after that horrific night of violence. Ms. DuVernay’s film attempts to portray me as an overzealous prosecutor and a bigot, the police as incompetent or worse, and the five suspects as innocent of all charges against them. None of this is true.
Consider the film’s most egregious falsehoods. “When They See Us” repeatedly portrays the suspects as being held without food, deprived of their parents’ company and advice, and not even allowed to use the bathroom. If that had been true, surely they would have brought those issues up and prevailed in pretrial hearings on the voluntariness of their statements, as well as in their lawsuit against the city. They didn’t, because it never happened.

In the first episode, the film portrays me at the precinct station house before dawn on April 20, the day after the attacks, unethically engineering the police investigation and making racist remarks. In reality, I didn’t arrive until 8 p.m., 22 hours after the police investigation began, did not run the investigation, and never made any of the comments the screenwriter attributes to me.

Ms. DuVernay depicts suspects Yusef Salaam and Korey Wise being arrested on the street. In fact, two detectives went to the door of the Salaam apartment on the night of the 20th because both had been named by other rioters as attackers in multiple assaults.

The film claims that when Mr. Salaam’s mother arrived and told police her son was only 15—meaning they could not question him without a parent in the room—I tried to stop her, demanding to see a birth certificate. The truth is that Mr. Salaam himself claimed to be 16 and even had a forged bus pass to “prove” it. When I heard his mother say he was 15, I immediately halted his questioning. This is all supported by sworn testimony.

Ms. DuVernay would have you believe the only evidence against the suspects was their allegedly forced confessions. That is not true. There is, for example, the African-American woman who testified at the trial—and again during the 2002 re-investigation—that when Korey Wise called her brother, he told her that he had held the jogger down and felt her breasts while others attacked her. There were blood stains and dirt on clothing of some of the five. And then there are the statements of more than a dozen of the other kids who participated in the park rampage. Although none of the others admitted joining in the rape of Trisha Meili, they admitted attacking male victims and a couple on a tandem bike, and each of them named some or all of the five as joining them.

Nor does the film note that Mr. Salaam took the stand at his trial, represented by a lawyer chosen and paid for by his mother, and testified that he had gone into the park carrying a 14-inch metal pipe—the same type of weapon that was used to bludgeon both a male schoolteacher and Ms. Meili. Mr. Reyes’s confession changed none of this. He admitted being the man whose DNA had been left in the jogger’s body and on her clothing, but the two juries that heard those facts knew the main assailant in the rape had not been caught. The five were charged as accomplices, as persons “acting in concert” with each other and with the then-unknown man who raped the jogger, not as those who actually performed the act. In their original confessions—later recanted—they admitted to grabbing her breasts and legs, and two of them admitted to climbing on top of her and simulating intercourse. Semen was found on the inside of their clothing, corroborating those confessions.

Mr. Reyes’s confession, DNA match and claim that he acted alone required that the rape charges against the five be vacated. I agreed with that decision, and still do. But the other charges, for crimes against other victims, should not have been vacated. Nothing Mr. Reyes said exonerated these five of those attacks. And there was certainly more than enough evidence to support those convictions of first-degree assault, robbery, riot and other charges.

It is a wonderful thing that these five men have taken themselves to responsible positions and community respect. That Ms. DuVernay ignored so much of the truth about the gang of 30 and about the suffering of their victims—and that her film includes so many falsehoods—is nonetheless an outrage.

Ms. DuVernay does not define me, and her film does not speak the truth.
Obviously this is a tremendously biased source as we're talking about Linda Fairstein herself.

Regardless, she raises exactly those points where I questioned the series. Most importantly the narrative requires that you buy into a prosecutor acting out of sheer malice and police investigators out of the desire to arrest just about anyone. I don't think that's a realistic point of view at all.

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Some of my favourite shows were slow paced. I just didn't enjoy it. I think I left it too late to watch it and the experience wasn't the same because I've been spoilt with how well modern shows are made. When was the last time you guys watched it? And even so you would still be blinded by nostalgia. Im sticking with it because of the universal acclaim but I'm not impressed so far.
No. You are wrong.
 

Stevie

..........
Mar 30, 2003
12,743
Just haven't enjoyed the first two seasons. Has had its moments but nothing special so far. I'm pretty sure most of you watched it a few years ago so there is no point arguing.

Just finished When They See Us and thought it was great. Suprised some people didn't like It.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,573
Just haven't enjoyed the first two seasons. Has had its moments but nothing special so far. I'm pretty sure most of you watched it a few years ago so there is no point arguing.

Just finished When They See Us and thought it was great. Suprised some people didn't like It.
Now I know The Wire is just way too complicated for you.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
49,141
I'm pretty sure most of you watched it a few years ago so there is no point arguing.

I didnt reply earlier out of politeness lol, but you keep repeating this, why do you think the quality of a show age that badly (especially when its NOT old), or we have gold fish memory? Tho FYI in my personal case, I rewatch it once every 2 years or so.


It has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, if I was clouded by nostalgia, it would be something I watched as a kid in late 80s or early 90s and barely remember except feeling it gave me, not a gigantic and deep layered authentic storytelling show I seen many times over in past decade. Its a show that basically unravels all the layers of real life society and its machinery so well in that certain setting, endless amount of well grounded great characters. David Simon (and Ed Burns, Dennis Lehane etc) is beyond amazing writer, does not get enough credit for this profound work imo.


It litterally defies every notion of cop show dramas we ever had in every way:


For anyone watching below and havent seen the show, dont worry, no spoilers:






 
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Stevie

..........
Mar 30, 2003
12,743
Now I know The Wire is just way too complicated for you.
It's really not complicated at all I grew up watching alot of David lynch and Andrei Tarkovsky movies. I don't think it's any more complicated than Twin peaks or True Detective.

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I didnt reply earlier out of politeness lol, but you keep repeating this, why do you think the quality of a show age that badly (especially when its NOT old), or we have gold fish memory? Tho FYI in my personal case, I rewatch it once every 2 years or so.


It has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, if I was clouded by nostalgia, it would be something I watched as a kid in late 80s or early 90s and barely remember except feeling it gave me, not a gigantic and deep layered authentic storytelling show I seen many times over in past decade. Its a show that basically unravels all the layers of real life society and its machinery so well in that certain setting, endless amount of well grounded great characters. David Simon (and Ed Burns, Dennis Lehane etc) is beyond amazing writer, does not get enough credit for this profound work imo.


It litterally defies every notion of cop show dramas we ever had in every way:


For anyone watching below and havent seen the show, dont worry, no spoilers:


Thanks I will watch the YouTube videos now. This was the kind of reply I was looking for. I'm still watching the show every day as I said before I'm aware of its universal acclaim so I'm not giving up on it. I haven't once felt like I was 'right' about my criticism and I knew I just wasn't getting it. I wouldn't of wasted my time talking about it if I thought it was just overrrated. What I like about it so far is the characters and the dialogue. The story line just hasn't grabbed me yet bar a few good moments. I didn't come here to shit on the show I was looking for someone to prove my wrong and help me enjoy it properly. You've helped so thanks again :D
 
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Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
49,141
It's really not complicated at all I grew up watching alot of David lynch and Andrei Tarkovsky movies. I don't think it's any more complicated than Twin peaks or True Detective.

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Thanks I will watch the YouTube videos now. This was the kind of reply I was looking for. I'm still watching the show every day as I said before I'm aware of its universal acclaim so I'm not giving up on it. I haven't once felt like I was 'right' about my criticism and I knew I just wasn't getting it. I wouldn't of wasted my time talking about it if I thought it was just overrrated. What I like about it so far is the characters and the dialogue. The story line just hasn't grabbed me yet bar a few good moments. I didn't come here to shit on the show I was looking for someone to prove my wrong and help me enjoy it properly. You've helped so thanks again :D

No worries, enjoy. And this series is not about your conventional visibly linnear storyline being fed to you, its about overaching themes explored per season being subtly told to you through small individual character moments at a time. The focus and the layers of the corruption and the hopeless machinery of the system and each individuals part of it will be fascinating to follow. Just focus on moments and episode at a time, usually when I recommended this to people they expect it to be telling directly what story its trying to achieve in episode like your typical series, but its not that kind of series or project. Much more deeper and rewarding overarching drama.
 

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