Gay couples as fit to adopt as heterosexuals: study (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
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Ah class conflict, that last stumbling block on the road to becomin a human.
Your account got hacked by this guy didn't it.
The poor aren't the root of the problem btw. I hate welfare cases but what you proposes is elitist,classist and just as bad as racism and intolerance which i thought you hated man.
Your account got hacked by this guy didn't it.
The poor aren't the root of the problem btw. I hate welfare cases but what you proposes is elitist,classist and just as bad as racism and intolerance which i thought you hated man.
And yes I tend to agree with you.
anyone whos not adequately prepared to have kids shouldnt, as in one who lacks funds to provide decent living for his kids shouldnt have em. poverty is subjective, and no one can accurately prognosticate how well off they will be in the future; but a fair objective assessment of that situation is necessary. oh and rich people encourage population growth as it provides expansion of market and continuation os operation.
Good post 
Except that I would say these terms you listed here: prejudice, sexism, homophobia are precisely those elements of what you called "natural human psychology" that explain these attitudes.
Except that I would say these terms you listed here: prejudice, sexism, homophobia are precisely those elements of what you called "natural human psychology" that explain these attitudes.
Wouldn't you say that these terms fall under one basic part of natural human psychology, fear?
Now, I'm not trying to let people off for being sexist, racist, or homophobic, but it seems to me that all of these attributes stem from fear. It makes a lot more sense to me to generalize it that way because I really don't believe people consider sexism or racism on an individual basis.
This would actually explain why people who are racist, are usually also sexist and homophobic. It simply means that these people are more fearful to change than the rest of us. They don't really think homosexualism is wrong, they are merely scared because it's different. Anyway, that's how I like to think of it.
Absolutely, it's my conviction that fear plays a huge part in our day to day mental life. For some reason there is this stigma about fear that drives people to make ludicrous denials of their fears, but it's the most common thing in the world. And most of the time fear is good for you. When I'm crossing the street and I pay attention to traffic, it's not because I'm trying to be a good person. It's because I'm scared that I might get hit by car. Everyone is afraid all the time, and this fear is what keeps us alive.
But there is also the other kind of fear: irrational fear. Fear which is not grounded in a reasonable assessment of reality. And everyone has this kind of fear too. Some people fear being in closed spaces. Some people fear people from foreign countries. This is the bad kind of fear, fear that hurts us because we can't do what we otherwise would do with no harm to ourselves. (Or worse yet when it drives us to intrude into other people's lives needlessly.)
And when people say things like "we can't allow gay marriage, that's inevitably going to increase pedophilia and sex with animals and other sexual perversions", this is completely ludicrous. There is no logic to that at all. And yet I have heard statements like this from many different people. So why does it catch on? Well, to be the amateur psychiatrist again, I think it's because people are scared of homosexuality (I don't know what their fears comprise in). And when you're afraid, the first thing you do is try to find an excuse you can use so that you don't have to face your fear. Because that's terrifying.
So they're grabbing onto these excuses as a cover. So that they can appear (to themselves above all) to be just and fair towards the gays. "Hey, I have gay friends, I would never do anything against gay people. It's just that there is this unstoppable 'chain of events' that I have grasped onto that I cannot expel from my mind."
So where does that leave us? Should we castigate people for being afraid? No. However, we should demand that when it's a matter between one person's fear and another person's well being, the latter is more important. In other words, you cannot use your irrational fear as an excuse to put people down. It's the "if we allow gay marriage, how am I going to explain it to my kids" argument.
It would also advance civilization *a lot* if we weren't so scared of fear and didn't stigmatize people for being afraid. We live in this culture where the first thing that pops into some person's ahead is "why don't you come here and say that to my face". How sad that is. The person is so afraid of being afraid that the most important thing he can do for the sake of his own sanity is to deny being afraid.
But there is also the other kind of fear: irrational fear. Fear which is not grounded in a reasonable assessment of reality. And everyone has this kind of fear too. Some people fear being in closed spaces. Some people fear people from foreign countries. This is the bad kind of fear, fear that hurts us because we can't do what we otherwise would do with no harm to ourselves. (Or worse yet when it drives us to intrude into other people's lives needlessly.)
And when people say things like "we can't allow gay marriage, that's inevitably going to increase pedophilia and sex with animals and other sexual perversions", this is completely ludicrous. There is no logic to that at all. And yet I have heard statements like this from many different people. So why does it catch on? Well, to be the amateur psychiatrist again, I think it's because people are scared of homosexuality (I don't know what their fears comprise in). And when you're afraid, the first thing you do is try to find an excuse you can use so that you don't have to face your fear. Because that's terrifying.
So they're grabbing onto these excuses as a cover. So that they can appear (to themselves above all) to be just and fair towards the gays. "Hey, I have gay friends, I would never do anything against gay people. It's just that there is this unstoppable 'chain of events' that I have grasped onto that I cannot expel from my mind."
So where does that leave us? Should we castigate people for being afraid? No. However, we should demand that when it's a matter between one person's fear and another person's well being, the latter is more important. In other words, you cannot use your irrational fear as an excuse to put people down. It's the "if we allow gay marriage, how am I going to explain it to my kids" argument.
It would also advance civilization *a lot* if we weren't so scared of fear and didn't stigmatize people for being afraid. We live in this culture where the first thing that pops into some person's ahead is "why don't you come here and say that to my face". How sad that is. The person is so afraid of being afraid that the most important thing he can do for the sake of his own sanity is to deny being afraid.
And being gay does?
Maybe you say that because either the football culture is so all encompassing where you are that you don't get around people much who aren't part of it. Or because you haven't been around people much who are in it for real. But you should see what people who are not sports fans think of us. I don't think it's much more gracious than what you said of your views on emos.
Maybe you say that because either the football culture is so all encompassing where you are that you don't get around people much who aren't part of it. Or because you haven't been around people much who are in it for real. But you should see what people who are not sports fans think of us. I don't think it's much more gracious than what you said of your views on emos.
I'm aware of that, but I've yet to meet an openly gay person who is not the stereotype, mind you I've only ever talked to at most 20 people, however that is a 100% 'cross-section' so to speak. Im not going to stand here and shoe-horn people I haven't met. I didn't even say that earlier.
Like I said ' they arent born having certain mannerisms etc.' I wasn't saying all gays belong to this culture I was saying that the ones that do have no biological reason to behave any differently to you or me, same with other niches. People don't choose to be gay, but they choose to embrace 'Gay Culture'.
The distinction I make between football culture and football fans is the same, that why I disagree with you that 'football fans' are a sub-culture (or niche whatever suits) .
Like I said ' they arent born having certain mannerisms etc.' I wasn't saying all gays belong to this culture I was saying that the ones that do have no biological reason to behave any differently to you or me, same with other niches. People don't choose to be gay, but they choose to embrace 'Gay Culture'.
The distinction I make between football culture and football fans is the same, that why I disagree with you that 'football fans' are a sub-culture (or niche whatever suits) .
I think the answer lies in your opening sentence. "Openly gay" and "perfectly at ease with their own identity" is not a very common thing in our society, is it? A lot of people are either gay "under the radar" so that their friends know and a lot of social contacts know but not necessarily the boss, the parents and whatever. And then you have gays who as you say "embrace gay culture", just possibly because they feel they have to be defiant, and part of a group, if they are going to be completely open about it. Because let's face it, we're not exactly treating them nicely.
I'm not saying I have any particular taste for that culture, but I can understand why it exists.
Well, football culture is a sub culture then, yes? And to it belong quite a few football fans. And in some ways they give a bad name to other football fans, with their violence, alcoholism and primitivism.
The parallel is very much there.
I'm not saying I have any particular taste for that culture, but I can understand why it exists.
Well, football culture is a sub culture then, yes? And to it belong quite a few football fans. And in some ways they give a bad name to other football fans, with their violence, alcoholism and primitivism.
The parallel is very much there.
Right and what I said was that I disliked 'gay culture' for the reason you just said. I can understand why, people being afraid and weak, but I don't have to like it or tolerate it, just the same with Hooligans, Emos, Goths, Pillheads, Wiggers etc.
Yes about football culture, i don't see where the disagreement lies.
Yes about football culture, i don't see where the disagreement lies.