Football Versus Results (2 Viewers)

[slack]

I definitely agree on the chemistry thing! That is primarily why Davids had his best period in marauding forward when Deschamps was around.

Tactically and with his unique characteristics, Davids has an unusual 'free role' as a DM in the team - he hustles all over the pitch BUT has to exercise more restraints because there isn't a Deschamps to organize and stabilize the midfield anymore. That, IMO, limits him severely.

Perhaps if we can find another midfield general who can wrest control in CM, we can see the very best of Davids once again. Having said that, he's not that bad right now either. He's been AWESOME in the past few games that matter and this is a guy we can always depend on when it gets rough ... I mean, how many can you really go out of your way to say that?

Btw Jun, interesting point about the backgrounds of Baraja and Ballack. Valeron was another example in Atletico whose rising star was Jose Mari then but look how it panned out? It really is a case of the 'right team' for a player. We have the same experience with Davids.

(PS. hrm, is that gal in your avatar Ryoko Hirosue, my friend? )

 

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[juvesta]

Ok, I now think people are talking. I too think it's the chemistry thing,our type of play(i wouldn't really mind if we change it from next season). But i should think the main problem that we have right now is the avearge age of the squad. I heard that we might buy Stam and i don't think it isa good idea bcos the guy has already reached the age 30 mark.This means that after 2 or 3 years we'll start looking for a defender again to replace him.

My wish list: Adriano and Ronaldinho. Any good young defenders that you know of?

 

[Tom]

I'm sorry but I think Ronaldinho is incredibly overrated. I would hate to see him in Juve and not only because of his teeth and hair. If it was up to me, now, I would change tactics for a start, and then with the recalls of the young players we really would only need a few players added to become a better footballing side whilst maintaining our 'tough to beat' nature

 

[Jun-hide]

Can't agree with you more Tom..
Ronaldinho for me is a street player, fancy tricks, skills, but not enough tangilble result. Beside, I don't think he has the body to play forward or he has the passing to play as a playmaker.

 

[Jun-hide]

Slack, you are right, the girl in my avartar is Hirosue Ryoko..
Though, I am not really a big follower of "idol stars" but I do have a soft spot for everthing which is "kawaii"
.
It's a bit pitty that she recently got somewhat chubby, it seems anyway in "Ai nante iranaineyo, natsu (I don't need love, Summer). Although, the new long hairstyle suits her well..

Anyway, you are right, slack, that chemistry is important in bringing the best out of player, and if player do play upto his full potential then it is an indication you got the balance right..
I think the major problem with our midfield is that, firstly, it is too defensive minded and secondly, it lacks genuine width. It is hard to create an ideal midfield, though, since there is always financial limitation and it is essential to take current players into consideration.

As for Davids, I am not too sure whether he fits into long-term Juve plan, but purely as a footballer, he is still terrific,
I'll just list down cons and pros on keeping Davids.

Cons,
1. It makes rebuilding much more risky prospect with both Davids and Nedved aging same time.
2. Our defensive midfield would be loaded next year, pick out of Tudor, Tach, Blasi, Davids, Baiocco, Conte.
3. I think it will be wise to bring Brighi in this summer. I think right now, it is critical time whether he can develop into a world star or end of being an average player. The fundamental problem is that we have not shown him enough confidence.:fero:. Only way to restore that confidence is to bring him back, I believe.
4. Financial aspect, high wages, depreciating value due to age, represents high opportunity cost of keeping Davids.

Pros,
1. Great soccer player, enough said.
2. Juve mentality; hates loosing and tremendous drive and determination.
3. Loss of veteran presence. Having likes of Davids around could on one hand be an obstacle to the development of Blasi but on the other hand, could teach him great deal.
4. Loss of world class player. I think, as it stands, our reputation isn't strong enough to convince players that Juve where one can win trophy in spite of selling players. In mid 90s we could always afford to sell players, and yet entact the reputation as the strongest team in the world because we were dominating both in Europe and Italia. Although we achieved great stuff, I am afraid our reputation as the best team in the world has gone to Real, which greatly reduced our marketing value, and appeal to top world class players.
5. Also, I know Glen has been adovactor of this for long time, keeping Davids could give us higher possible sponsor money with Nike. Whether this will be significant, I have some reservation, but it does make sense.

 

[Jun-hide]

By the way slack,
I think Jose Mari is pretty good player
but you are right, in that, big reputation youngster doesn't always become big stars. Valeron, in fact, if I remeber correctly, started his career in third division in Spain.
Beside, I think there are too many overhyped teenagers in the world.

 

[slack]

Hehe, I kinda like her myself. First saw her in 'The Beach Boys' and thought she's kinda different from the mainstream petite sweetie-pies. Anyway for me, Uchida Yuki edges her out just a little bit though Btw, what's erm "kawaii"?

Agree with almost all you said. Of the veterans, Nedved and Davids best epitomise the Juve tradition : absolute commitment to the cause .... a pretty rare quality nowadays. I also understand your concerns about age and accelerated decline. However, I think we can afford more margin to the mentioned duo than your typical footballer as Nedved is a fitness freak while Davids is simply a natural athlete. Both are unbelievably durable! As things stand, Davids and his contractual problems means we stand a higher chance of losing him. Then again, I'm not sure how much that's negated by the rumoured conditions in Lippi's new contract about retaining KEY players (which includes Davids, I think) I can't see Juve selling Nedved at all for there's simply no obvious replacement who provides the kinda immediate impact crucial to winning something next season. When it comes down to straight figures, the depreciation on Davids should be pretty negligible since we got him off Milan for peanuts. Nedved's quite another matter but if considered in the light that the deal was financed by ZZ's sale, who cost about as much as Davids, it pretty much evens out I guess. Problem is accounting isn't done that way. Lastly, how much would the sales strengthen our rivals? Imagine Davids to Roma and Nedved to Scum ... very much, I'm afraid.

Hrm, regarding the reputation thing. Personally, I wouldn't dwell on it as its very much like a power cycle. History shows that outstanding teams will always have a period of dominance; we had ours but the key difference is that we didn't maximise our chances of winning (1 out of 3 consecutive CL finals) in our heydays. Nevertheless, I rate the achievement right up there with that of Ajax and Red Star Belgrade ... considering relative financial outlay and personnel turnover, something we took to the extreme. On hindsight, maybe you could say we overdid it but hell, that was still quite something compared to the obscene laundering by the Milans and Madrids. We could very well have one of the best forward line in history in Christian Vieri, Thierry Henry, ADP and Trez et al for about the price of 1 superstar now. Anyway, we've gotta accept that our time came and went and as shown by those years, its infinitely easier when you're building on the upward momentum - success breeds success. I don't see Real Madrid's dominance lasting as their ageing problem is probably more severe than others (bar Milan) Given the CVs of our youth at all levels, maybe our time has come again ...

 

[Dragon]

davids is SO fast thats one of his pros

 

[Layce Erayce]

++ [ originally posted by slack ] ++
I definitely agree on the chemistry thing! That is primarily why Davids had his best period in marauding forward when Deschamps was around.

Tactically and with his unique characteristics, Davids has an unusual 'free role' as a DM in the team - he hustles all over the pitch BUT has to exercise more restraints because there isn't a Deschamps to organize and stabilize the midfield anymore. That, IMO, limits him severely.

Perhaps if we can find another midfield general who can wrest control in CM, we can see the very best of Davids once again. Having said that, he's not that bad right now either. He's been AWESOME in the past few games that matter and this is a guy we can always depend on when it gets rough ... I mean, how many can you really go out of your way to say that?

glad to see someone understands me....

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++
You and the Germans, I hope you are never invaded again.. You would lead the resistance, no?

What makes you think the Germans would win and occupy my country?

 

[Tom]

nah you dutch would beat them off I have no doubts

 

[Jun-hide]

Uchida Yuki is very cute, indeed, especially with her traditional short hair.. Ryoko is certainly different different from main streem "idol", since she can actually act!. Or she is certainly not as manufactured as "Morning Musume", who make me sick..
I loved Ryoko's boy like image, I though it was cute.
My favorite piece with Yuki is a film version of very popular manga, "Hanayori otokonoko"(I prefer Boy than flowers - not quite for word for word but I guess it means something like this.)
However, Matsushima Nanako would top both of them, with her beauty and "Junshu"(pure)ness..
By the way, "Dekichata Kekkon," (My girl friend is pregant!, something like that, not quite same though) is another good drama starring Takenouchi Yutaka and Hirosue Ryoko. I loved Abe Hiroshi's "Baka"(stupid) acting as "Eitaro". It's quite funny and I recommend it..

Back to football,
I agree, and hope that is the case, that our youth policy will work out in near future. I think Moggi has done such a good job in managing the team that even Druker would be proud with our achievement. Strong financial ground, solid flow of revenues, though I cannot get rid of feeling that we are not maximizing our marketing value, and most importantly vision for the future. I think we have created a situation where we are achieving results present and yet gurantee equally good ones in the future, which fits into Druker's view that future success is important but which is only possible if there is success at present.
However, I do feel the major problem could be not with our young players but lack of confidence on teams part on them. Maybe Davids, Tach, Nedved could hinder their development since it is very easy for young players to loose career path, as they feel uncertain about their future. However, Davids could help them to develop by setting example. Who knows?
However, I do personally believe that we have made mess of things with Brighi. In retrospect, destroying Brighi's confidence to get Di Vaio (and a lot cash as well:down looks quite outrageous deal. I personally like Di Vaio, but with 16m sterling pounds, we could have bought some VERY GOOD players.:down:.
The good thing is that I think Moggi learnt his lesson and showing great deal of confidence in Miccoli, who amazes me every minute with his audacity, confidence, and talent, can only be good for the player and team. He could make things a lot better by bringing back Maresca, IMO. Maresca, given opportunity and backing, can achieve great things. He has a mentality of a champion, in my view. . I just like to go back and point out that nobody in the world when Baraja was at early stage in his career would become a player he is today. I can't say why Maresca cannot become a terrific player. I wouldn't be surprised if he fails since the failure rate is quite high, but I wouldn't be surprised either if he succeeds.

 

[Jun-hide]

P.S. Kawaii means Cute,
sorry but I can't type Japanese in Romaji.
:down:

 

[slack]

Yo Jun,

We're going hopelessly OT here and anything beyond will have to go to PM or Martin will flay us ...

Hrm, you mean the Nanako who acted in 'The Ring'? Is Ryoko still sporting the tomboy image right now? Heh, gotta admit she's pretty unique ( that's probably what made her stand out in my part of the world ) compared to the teenage preferences here

For me, still can't quite figure out what exactly it is with Yuki; if I hafta put it down in words, its probably a sweetie-pie ( I've a fetish for these just like you have a soft spot for "kawaii" ones ) cum vibrant combi. They're currently airing a series of her in "Akimahende" ( also starring the 'wholesome' Norika Fujiwara ), which is her 2nd cap after her debut in "Big Wing" ( based on another manga, I think? ) over here Haven't had time to follow it regularly as the TV station allocated it to a ridiculous timeslot!

The popularity of Japanese drama series has grown enormously over these years. The more enduring favourites appear to be the likes of Tokiwa Takako ( Beautiful Life ) The usual names for the guys Anyway, my knowledge on this is severely limited but thanks heaps for your recommendations; I'll certainly keep a lookout for them!

Back to football. Financially, Juve has indeed done an excellent job as a club. Detaching it from the traditional sugar-dad funded entity (while GA loved the club, there's really no guarantee that his posterity would) and floating it on the exchange has kinda ensured its long-term survivability. Having the right fundamentals is critical, as Lazio can unwillingly attest to. With his extensive contacts, clout in relevant circles and coupled with the status privileges that Juve enjoys in Italy, Moggi's contribution is definitely right up there. Compared to the global elite (read ManScum and until recently, Madrid) I agree that Juve is probably not maximising its marketing potential in the global sense. Those 2 benefit from an early foothold in Asia, which is a particularly big market but FAR from saturated - good news? Comparatively, EPL clubs will always enjoy a rather big advantage as far as English remains the 'global' language ... one of the basic 1st things that people identify with. Pure money aside, I also think that the Nike deal over traditional 'local' sponsors is significant as a step-up in global 'brand' marketing. As a PLC, its obvious Juve wants a share of the pie as well but perhaps lacks the expertise to tap into it. Obviously, the rewards will be huge if the club is the sole party but one can't have everything. The next best thing is a compromise - use a vehicle to do it, hedge a huge chunk of the risk and catalyse the process. Nike, an established presence with the know-how is quite the obvious choice. Having said all that, I wouldn't like the the club to tread the path of ManScum ... too commercialized for my liking but hey, that's just me

Individually, yes, the club has made some huge mistakes. Like you, I'm particularly aggrieved by the DV deal. Its even more painful when you look at Mutu, the player we SHOULD have gotten instead! To be fair, Moggi's hand was forced by a 1-for-1 replacement for Trez in a panic-induced move. As great a loss as Brighi (with his fabulous season in Bologna) might be, IMHO, the real loss is the talented Romanian With hindsight and given the contribution by DV this season, our loss is 2-fold : TWO of the most talented youngsters in Serie A for a misfit! Maresca's case is a mystery. We got hints during his brief stay at the club that Lippi never liked him and despite his wonderful performances in Piacenza this season, the indications are that he's a goner. The only hope I have is that he'll be a substantial bargaining chip for somebody HUGE ... Stankovic, Obodo, Meghni and yes, Mutu et al. A word on Miccoli - this boy's gonna be a STAR. He has been very very impressive and even helped us take 6 points off Milan/Inter Am just wondering how much more he can improve to the ultimate in Romario (less the impudence and laziness) Lastly, Baraja is a fantastic all-rounder. Like most cases in life, I guess he's what people call a 'late-bloomer' and there's really no telling how someone might turn out for sure. That's the beauty of the unknown and something Juve appears to be better at than most other clubs. Valencia is slipping alarmingly and while I kinda like them, it does present some fascinating possibilities in terms of transfers. Btw, Roy Makaay has refused a contract extension and is ready to walk ... what do you think of him?

 

[Jun-hide]

Slack,
sorry I couldn't post for a while, because I was terribly busy.
By the way, Makaay would be an excellent buy, with his goal scoring abilities, pace and power. My only objection is that he may be too old to be a good investment. Torres, could be an better option, with his tremendous physical strenght and talent. But it seems Milan has the upper hand.
In addition, I am not sure Makaay has the self-belief to succeed in Serie A. One can get awed with the talent in Italy. Alex, Trez, Nedved aren't too shabby and I haven't even spoke about Vieri, Sheva, and co.

I know I am very emotional right now with stunning victory but Thuram, Davids and Nedved should all stay. Nedved, in particular, has Juve heart and mind. Only too bad he isn't making to the final. What we do need to do, however, is to find the right replacement for him. I am not sure Mutu or Miccoli would do the same job since they are completely different player. One method is gradually changing the system, and bring on young players one at the time. The other method could be buying a replacement. Stankovic, for me, has a trace of young Nedved in him. Dignity, compassion, humility, physical presence, technical ability, versatility...awfully similar fundamental qualities to Nedved. They playing style is different with Neddy being more physical and technically mature at this moment but let's not forget Stan is a bit younger of the two. Obodo, is certainly, the buy for the future, and possiblity replacement for Davids. His physique and maturity is way beyond his years.

Also talking about Marketing, I do have to disagree here little bit. EPL has the advantage in the sense that it comes from English speaking zone but what no EPL team beside Man U can match the image of Italian Giants. Italian teams are hugely popular in Japan, I can tell you. There are quite a few who remember the great Milan days with fond memories. Also if you see one of our manga on football, like Fantasista, or whislte then, you can immediately realize that Italian players like Del Piero, Totti, and most importantly Baggio are hugely admired. Baggio is preserved as a part of footballing legend in Japan, a huge fan favorite and I would love to see him play in the J-league one day.. Beside, girls in Japan loves Italian players; Canna, Totti, Del Piero, are all referred to as 'Ikeman', meaning good looking and talented men.
Maybe Japan is a anomaly, since our hearthrob Nakas are playing in Serie A. Also, China is probably more attractive market with growing economy, and mass market. However, the point is, Serie A has its advantage in marketing its football. Although EPL as a league is just as prestigious in Japan as Serie A, as it is often referred to as BIG 3 (a total fallacy, BTW), but take away Man U, Beckam and Owen, it does not have the same prestige as Italian stars and teams. I also heard that Anchor women in CCTV (Chine btw) cried when Italia jost to South Korea, so Serie A can't be too unpopular!::extatic:
I never knew, Japanese dramas was popular outside Japan. !::extatic: .
By the way, Beautiful life was wonderful drama, and a massive hit in Japan. Well, that is normally the case with Kimutaku around. Anyway, i am not a great fan of Fujiwara Norika, she makes too many scandals for my liking.. Neverthless, she does seem to be a sincere fan of football. And you are right, Matsushima Nanako is a reporter in the "ring" even though the original book states that the reporter is actually a man, with Ryuji being a high-school mate. Beside Ring 1 was too similar to book for my liking, whereas Ring 2 was huge improvement. Neverthless, book was better than both, giving Sadako a tragic ghost image whereas the Ring 2 made her a monster. (She is supposed to be a beautiful women in the book).
By the way, what is sweetie-pie?