Farsopoli(Calciopoli) (23 Viewers)
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Mark I will sign up to that petition,
Is there a player not in your database?
.
Anyway, I disagree on the appeal. Well I don't think Serie A heavy penalty deduction will do us any good.
Just quickly looking at last season, there was 60 point gap between us and Messina who were the last team to get relegated.
Given that we were on a storming pace at the beginning of season, and there was about 8 point gap beteen Siena and Messina, more realistically I think we need make at least 10 point adjustment to give a cautious prediction that Juve will be safe next year.
That means at as long as penalty gap is below 50 points, Juve should be able to stay in Serie A, which means that team is probably better off appealing for TAR then accept Serie B.
Now, I am almost certain that UEFA's threat of expulsion is merely an empty threat. The matter of fact is UEFA has already admitted Milan whose is found to be guilty of sporting fraud into the Champions League, and hence the precedence has been set.
If Juve's admission is rejected on a similar basis, then I am certain that we can appeal the decision to the European Court and will be in an extremely strong position to win it.
And knowing this, UEFA won't even bother to expel us from the competition. They will probably have some kind of "investigation" or "emergency meeting" but nothing significant will come out.
So in this respect, I understand why we should appeal to the TAR.
However, with longer perspective I am not so sure such a decision will be a good thing. I think Juve has an outstanding chance, now, that our previous cold disconnected management team is gone, to build forward looking & fan-friendly organization. I genuinely believe that with good PR moves, such as trying to picture ourselves as unfair victims of the trial, damning past management team, and more social commitment than in the past, I truely believe that Juve could re-organize their business model to fully take advantage of their unique history and culture, which Giraudo couldn't.
Moreover, we have commited an offence and I do believe some sort of punishment is needed.
Now I think it would be an act of great significance that Juve will accept Serie B but take the tribunal court to the civil court to demonstrate that the verdict has been unfair and receive some sort of financial compensation package to rebuild the team for future.
Beside, I doubt whether the current team can achieve 91 points we obtained last year. I think 70-80 points with 3-4 signing is a realistic target and that means anything upto 30-40 point penalty, we are in serious trouble.
Is there a player not in your database?
.Anyway, I disagree on the appeal. Well I don't think Serie A heavy penalty deduction will do us any good.
Just quickly looking at last season, there was 60 point gap between us and Messina who were the last team to get relegated.
Given that we were on a storming pace at the beginning of season, and there was about 8 point gap beteen Siena and Messina, more realistically I think we need make at least 10 point adjustment to give a cautious prediction that Juve will be safe next year.
That means at as long as penalty gap is below 50 points, Juve should be able to stay in Serie A, which means that team is probably better off appealing for TAR then accept Serie B.
Now, I am almost certain that UEFA's threat of expulsion is merely an empty threat. The matter of fact is UEFA has already admitted Milan whose is found to be guilty of sporting fraud into the Champions League, and hence the precedence has been set.
If Juve's admission is rejected on a similar basis, then I am certain that we can appeal the decision to the European Court and will be in an extremely strong position to win it.
And knowing this, UEFA won't even bother to expel us from the competition. They will probably have some kind of "investigation" or "emergency meeting" but nothing significant will come out.
So in this respect, I understand why we should appeal to the TAR.
However, with longer perspective I am not so sure such a decision will be a good thing. I think Juve has an outstanding chance, now, that our previous cold disconnected management team is gone, to build forward looking & fan-friendly organization. I genuinely believe that with good PR moves, such as trying to picture ourselves as unfair victims of the trial, damning past management team, and more social commitment than in the past, I truely believe that Juve could re-organize their business model to fully take advantage of their unique history and culture, which Giraudo couldn't.
Moreover, we have commited an offence and I do believe some sort of punishment is needed.
Now I think it would be an act of great significance that Juve will accept Serie B but take the tribunal court to the civil court to demonstrate that the verdict has been unfair and receive some sort of financial compensation package to rebuild the team for future.
Beside, I doubt whether the current team can achieve 91 points we obtained last year. I think 70-80 points with 3-4 signing is a realistic target and that means anything upto 30-40 point penalty, we are in serious trouble.
Jun-hide said:
Mark I will sign up to that petition,
Is there a player not in your database? .
Anyway, I disagree on the appeal. Well I don't think Serie A heavy penalty deduction will do us any good.
Just quickly looking at last season, there was 60 point gap between us and Messina who were the last team to get relegated.
Given that we were on a storming pace at the beginning of season, and there was about 8 point gap beteen Siena and Messina, more realistically I think we need make at least 10 point adjustment to give a cautious prediction that Juve will be safe next year.
That means at as long as penalty gap is below 50 points, Juve should be able to stay in Serie A, which means that team is probably better off appealing for TAR then accept Serie B.
Now, I am almost certain that UEFA's threat of expulsion is merely an empty threat. The matter of fact is UEFA has already admitted Milan whose is found to be guilty of sporting fraud into the Champions League, and hence the precedence has been set.
If Juve's admission is rejected on a similar basis, then I am certain that we can appeal the decision to the European Court and will be in an extremely strong position to win it.
And knowing this, UEFA won't even bother to expel us from the competition. They will probably have some kind of "investigation" or "emergency meeting" but nothing significant will come out.
So in this respect, I understand why we should appeal to the TAR.
However, with longer perspective I am not so sure such a decision will be a good thing. I think Juve has an outstanding chance, now, that our previous cold disconnected management team is gone, to build forward looking & fan-friendly organization. I genuinely believe that with good PR moves, such as trying to picture ourselves as unfair victims of the trial, damning past management team, and more social commitment than in the past, I truely believe that Juve could re-organize their business model to fully take advantage of their unique history and culture, which Giraudo couldn't.
Moreover, we have commited an offence and I do believe some sort of punishment is needed.
Now I think it would be an act of great significance that Juve will accept Serie B but take the tribunal court to the civil court to demonstrate that the verdict has been unfair and receive some sort of financial compensation package to rebuild the team for future.
Beside, I doubt whether the current team can achieve 91 points we obtained last year. I think 70-80 points with 3-4 signing is a realistic target and that means anything upto 30-40 point penalty, we are in serious trouble.
Is there a player not in your database?
.Anyway, I disagree on the appeal. Well I don't think Serie A heavy penalty deduction will do us any good.
Just quickly looking at last season, there was 60 point gap between us and Messina who were the last team to get relegated.
Given that we were on a storming pace at the beginning of season, and there was about 8 point gap beteen Siena and Messina, more realistically I think we need make at least 10 point adjustment to give a cautious prediction that Juve will be safe next year.
That means at as long as penalty gap is below 50 points, Juve should be able to stay in Serie A, which means that team is probably better off appealing for TAR then accept Serie B.
Now, I am almost certain that UEFA's threat of expulsion is merely an empty threat. The matter of fact is UEFA has already admitted Milan whose is found to be guilty of sporting fraud into the Champions League, and hence the precedence has been set.
If Juve's admission is rejected on a similar basis, then I am certain that we can appeal the decision to the European Court and will be in an extremely strong position to win it.
And knowing this, UEFA won't even bother to expel us from the competition. They will probably have some kind of "investigation" or "emergency meeting" but nothing significant will come out.
So in this respect, I understand why we should appeal to the TAR.
However, with longer perspective I am not so sure such a decision will be a good thing. I think Juve has an outstanding chance, now, that our previous cold disconnected management team is gone, to build forward looking & fan-friendly organization. I genuinely believe that with good PR moves, such as trying to picture ourselves as unfair victims of the trial, damning past management team, and more social commitment than in the past, I truely believe that Juve could re-organize their business model to fully take advantage of their unique history and culture, which Giraudo couldn't.
Moreover, we have commited an offence and I do believe some sort of punishment is needed.
Now I think it would be an act of great significance that Juve will accept Serie B but take the tribunal court to the civil court to demonstrate that the verdict has been unfair and receive some sort of financial compensation package to rebuild the team for future.
Beside, I doubt whether the current team can achieve 91 points we obtained last year. I think 70-80 points with 3-4 signing is a realistic target and that means anything upto 30-40 point penalty, we are in serious trouble.
I cannot agree there, with the other 3 teams appealing their punishments down to a mere slap on the wrist
Serie A minus 15 or 18 points seems most reasonable, considering the situation, and the other "punishments" handed out
Don't you thinkw e would be fighting against relegation an entire season if you look at who already left the team, then I prefer fighting for the title in SerieB, with a big chance on winning it, even with the -17 points we have now.
Let's assume we get back to serieA but with a -30 points punishement, and we get relegated, then we loose at least two seasons, now we will loose only one.
If there is a guarentee that Trez, Ibra and Gigi stay with us if we get the -30 points in serieA, then ok, but if they still want to leave, then I don't think it is better for us.
Let's assume we get back to serieA but with a -30 points punishement, and we get relegated, then we loose at least two seasons, now we will loose only one.
If there is a guarentee that Trez, Ibra and Gigi stay with us if we get the -30 points in serieA, then ok, but if they still want to leave, then I don't think it is better for us.
i wouldnt accept that as well, although it would be a very good fairytale story to get back to serie A....although that would be hard imo thats going back and being in the front runners again.
getting serie A would be great with a 15 point deficit. I think would be very hard to get though, i think if they r going to reinstate us in serie A then it would be with at least with 20 to 30 point deficit.
getting serie A would be great with a 15 point deficit. I think would be very hard to get though, i think if they r going to reinstate us in serie A then it would be with at least with 20 to 30 point deficit.
Vinman,
Just looking at the sentences that we received relative to others, like you I certainly feel we are being vicitimised here.
I understand you anger and thoughts, and I respect them.
However, I have been impressed by the attitudes of the board and players who have been very quick in trying to re-establish that connection with the fans.
I will give 9/10 for the way both fans, players, and boards responded to the trial.
I think a season in Serie B could re-ignited the passion in poeple again, which went missing for last 6 seasons IMO.
As they say, "We are united more with the outside threat looming."
.
As long as we can get some financial compensation which can be used to rebuild the side in Serie A and a chance to show how unfair the trials has been - then surprise Juve could be team with sympathy!
.
Beside with 20-30 point deficit, and the current state of squad, I just don't think we can make it to UEFA. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Inter, Milan, Palermo should finish above us, which leaves us with a place in Intertotto.
Whereas if we start from Serie B, I think we are almost a lock to get promoted, and we have a chance to test our promosing youngsters.
Just looking at the sentences that we received relative to others, like you I certainly feel we are being vicitimised here.
I understand you anger and thoughts, and I respect them.
However, I have been impressed by the attitudes of the board and players who have been very quick in trying to re-establish that connection with the fans.
I will give 9/10 for the way both fans, players, and boards responded to the trial.
I think a season in Serie B could re-ignited the passion in poeple again, which went missing for last 6 seasons IMO.
As they say, "We are united more with the outside threat looming."
.As long as we can get some financial compensation which can be used to rebuild the side in Serie A and a chance to show how unfair the trials has been - then surprise Juve could be team with sympathy!
.Beside with 20-30 point deficit, and the current state of squad, I just don't think we can make it to UEFA. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Inter, Milan, Palermo should finish above us, which leaves us with a place in Intertotto.
Whereas if we start from Serie B, I think we are almost a lock to get promoted, and we have a chance to test our promosing youngsters.
Jun-hide said:
Vinman,
Just looking at the sentences that we received relative to others, like you I certainly feel we are being vicitimised here.
I understand you anger and thoughts, and I respect them.
However, I have been impressed by the attitudes of the board and players who have been very quick in trying to re-establish that connection with the fans.
I will give 9/10 for the way both fans, players, and boards responded to the trial.
I think a season in Serie B could re-ignited the passion in poeple again, which went missing for last 6 seasons IMO.
As they say, "We are united more with the outside threat looming." .
I think with staying in serie-A, we could also re-ignited the passion in poeple. We have been punished unfairly. We have a challenge to show that we are strong without cheating. We have a challenge to avoid relegation the next season.
As long as we can get some financial compensation which can be used to rebuild the side in Serie A and a chance to show how unfair the trials has been - then surprise Juve could be team with sympathy! .
If we stay in serie-A, then clearly we have financial advantage. We can retain our players to stay with us and compete in the top level.
Beside with 20-30 point deficit, and the current state of squad, I just don't think we can make it to UEFA. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Inter, Milan, Palermo should finish above us, which leaves us with a place in Intertotto.
the worst situation when we play in serie-B.
Whereas if we start from Serie B, I think we are almost a lock to get promoted, and we have a chance to test our promosing youngsters.
I think this is not a good way to train and develope our young player. Look what manutd, barca have done. they developed their young players by giving a chance to compete in the top level.
Just looking at the sentences that we received relative to others, like you I certainly feel we are being vicitimised here.
I understand you anger and thoughts, and I respect them.
However, I have been impressed by the attitudes of the board and players who have been very quick in trying to re-establish that connection with the fans.
I will give 9/10 for the way both fans, players, and boards responded to the trial.
I think a season in Serie B could re-ignited the passion in poeple again, which went missing for last 6 seasons IMO.
As they say, "We are united more with the outside threat looming."
.I think with staying in serie-A, we could also re-ignited the passion in poeple. We have been punished unfairly. We have a challenge to show that we are strong without cheating. We have a challenge to avoid relegation the next season.
As long as we can get some financial compensation which can be used to rebuild the side in Serie A and a chance to show how unfair the trials has been - then surprise Juve could be team with sympathy!
.If we stay in serie-A, then clearly we have financial advantage. We can retain our players to stay with us and compete in the top level.
Beside with 20-30 point deficit, and the current state of squad, I just don't think we can make it to UEFA. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Inter, Milan, Palermo should finish above us, which leaves us with a place in Intertotto.
the worst situation when we play in serie-B.
Whereas if we start from Serie B, I think we are almost a lock to get promoted, and we have a chance to test our promosing youngsters.
I think this is not a good way to train and develope our young player. Look what manutd, barca have done. they developed their young players by giving a chance to compete in the top level.
int:
if we end up in A with -30 points then we would only have 11 less points than fiorentina and you could argue that we are 11 points better than them, also because of all the deductions given to A teams the bar for relegation would drop significantly. Fingers crossed that we do get reinstated i dont think a -30 point penalty would be the end of the world, though it is still incredibly harsh compared to milans "we want to scare you and pretend you cant play in europe when you actually can" punishment
Milan had 44 point penalty last year, which was good enough to finish 7th in the table. However, one has to take into consideration that Milan and Juve went on a fantastic pace, despite certain let down towards end of season, and I do not think any team will replicate such performances this year.
So yeah, reaching UEFA is a possible target to achieve but it will be extremely difficult. It will almost be equivalent to winning Serie A on a excellent pace.
Now taking the current state of the team into consideration - I think we can forget about it.
And lets not forget Viola has been strenghtening their squad as if they were planning to play in CL. With Mutu linking up with Prandelli again probably playing a position just off the striker, I fear their attacking potential. Pazzini & Motolivo is also a year older with more experience. I am afraid Viola looks stronger than us on paper.
We have ATM very unbalanced, and unprepared team. Our central mid is at best reserve level in Serie A with, the exception of aging Nedved and Machionni, provide very little creativity, and penetration.
And I do not want to even discuss our defence would be like if Kovac and Buffon decide to leave. Givet would be good signing but Balza & Chiellini hardly qualify as a championship calibre fullbacks. And can everyone adjust to each other in just a month of training? I see us UEFA/Mid table team ATM & with 30 point penalty - it smells relegation dog fight.
So yeah, reaching UEFA is a possible target to achieve but it will be extremely difficult. It will almost be equivalent to winning Serie A on a excellent pace.
Now taking the current state of the team into consideration - I think we can forget about it.
And lets not forget Viola has been strenghtening their squad as if they were planning to play in CL. With Mutu linking up with Prandelli again probably playing a position just off the striker, I fear their attacking potential. Pazzini & Motolivo is also a year older with more experience. I am afraid Viola looks stronger than us on paper.
We have ATM very unbalanced, and unprepared team. Our central mid is at best reserve level in Serie A with, the exception of aging Nedved and Machionni, provide very little creativity, and penetration.
And I do not want to even discuss our defence would be like if Kovac and Buffon decide to leave. Givet would be good signing but Balza & Chiellini hardly qualify as a championship calibre fullbacks. And can everyone adjust to each other in just a month of training? I see us UEFA/Mid table team ATM & with 30 point penalty - it smells relegation dog fight.
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