[EU] Champions League 05/06 (2 Viewers)
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The referee was definitely biased towards Barcelona and it had nothing to do with offsides or Lehmann being sent off.
For every six fouls from behind commited by VanBommel, Oleguer etc. Barca recieved a yellow card. Arsenal players recieved the same for one such challenge; Henry got booked for tackling the ball cleanly!
In saying that, shit happens and we should have won anyway. I can't believe that people think that Barca deserved to win though; come of it, even Pele said that they were lucky.
We missed a few chances that would have put the game out of reach, the boys ran themselves into the ground and they all (for the most part) stood up and were counted. It hurts that we didn't win because we should have, but I can't ask for much more really; our day will come.
For every six fouls from behind commited by VanBommel, Oleguer etc. Barca recieved a yellow card. Arsenal players recieved the same for one such challenge; Henry got booked for tackling the ball cleanly!
In saying that, shit happens and we should have won anyway. I can't believe that people think that Barca deserved to win though; come of it, even Pele said that they were lucky.
We missed a few chances that would have put the game out of reach, the boys ran themselves into the ground and they all (for the most part) stood up and were counted. It hurts that we didn't win because we should have, but I can't ask for much more really; our day will come.
yes he should of but giuly made his run after et'o was tripped, thus the ref. couldn't see that giuly had an open net. Right when the ref. blew his wistle he had no choice. Some could say he was a little whistle happy but under the circumstances he made the right decision, I'm sure if it was open and he saw giuly he would of played the advantage....
mikhail said:
Henry didn't really choke, he played well and get Barcelona trouble, but the problem is his finishing. He should have put that 1 on 1 chance easily since he has only Valdez to beat.
Regarding about referee errors, don't get me started, even though I believe that the referee should have given a goal advantage to Barcelona instead and Henry should not be booked.
I agree with what u say.
The referee is not bias, he is terrible for both sides, maybe u can say the referee ruin everything or whatsoever, but to only say about Lehmann's red card and put everything aside is just pure bias.
Regards to the offside, Larsson changed the direction of the ball, Etoo RECEIVED the ball at a position which is not offside and he dashed in to score. Even the commentator from ESPN said that Etoo's speed beat the offside trap and it is a perfectly legal goal. This issue should have been solved long ago.
Which leads me to have another issue, has the quality of referees seriously deteriorated over the years? Ever since the resigning of Urs Meier and Anders Frisk and the retirement of Collina, I can't see any other personnel for the job. Kim Milton Nielson is the perfect choice IMO, but other than him, I can't think of anybody else. Markus Merk is overrated.
The most ironic thing for the last few pages is, how come no1 mentioned about the Arsenal - Villarreal game. If they want to talk about referees, mention that game as well. How Jose Mari was hacked down at the back and Giberto not receiving the red card. The media is really biased in this issue, but I don't blame them for facouring the english teams and dedicate 1 or 2 pages to them when an English team wins an European final. If you people want to talk abnout bias refereeing, please refer to that game as well and not pay full attention to the final only.
The referee is not bias, he is terrible for both sides, maybe u can say the referee ruin everything or whatsoever, but to only say about Lehmann's red card and put everything aside is just pure bias.
Regards to the offside, Larsson changed the direction of the ball, Etoo RECEIVED the ball at a position which is not offside and he dashed in to score. Even the commentator from ESPN said that Etoo's speed beat the offside trap and it is a perfectly legal goal. This issue should have been solved long ago.
Which leads me to have another issue, has the quality of referees seriously deteriorated over the years? Ever since the resigning of Urs Meier and Anders Frisk and the retirement of Collina, I can't see any other personnel for the job. Kim Milton Nielson is the perfect choice IMO, but other than him, I can't think of anybody else. Markus Merk is overrated.
The most ironic thing for the last few pages is, how come no1 mentioned about the Arsenal - Villarreal game. If they want to talk about referees, mention that game as well. How Jose Mari was hacked down at the back and Giberto not receiving the red card. The media is really biased in this issue, but I don't blame them for facouring the english teams and dedicate 1 or 2 pages to them when an English team wins an European final. If you people want to talk abnout bias refereeing, please refer to that game as well and not pay full attention to the final only.
IMHO, I had to watch some 70+ minutes of a game of keep-away because some retarded referee decided to send a goalie off instead of awarding a goal upon letting Barca play the advantage, and because he awarded a completely irresponsible free kick at the edge of Barca's box. Don't even get me started on some delusion that Arsenal deserved to win that match given the way they played it.
Come off it, the ref was not biased, he was incompetent. Arsenal are lucky to be considered gallant losers cos they ahd a player sent off and defended like any team will do with 10 men. There was nothing heroic about what you guys did as so many teams have done it inthe past, in fact Juve defended with 10 men against Barcelona and even managed to win 2-1. If that goa was allowed to stand and with barcelona leading 1-0 and youguys having no options but to attack , then the score might have been worse as Barcelona will have more space to attack and no way would you defence have been able to handle the speed of counter attacks that Barcelona will no doubt have launched. When a team goes down to 10 men ,its always important which player actuallywent off, in your case it was Pires who is not known for his defending, it would have been worse if it was someone like Gilberto or 1 of your defenders that got sent off. If that was the case and you guys held on like you did, then i would have been really impressed. Since when does anyone take anything Pele says seriously. i bet when he was talking to the Catalunian press, he was tone was different. Like Maradona once said, noone kisses ass more than Pele.
And yet you failed to address what I said which was;
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiority
P ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities.
Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiority
P ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities. Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
northbank said:
And yet you failed to address what I said which was;
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiorityP ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities.
Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiority
P ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities. Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
Sure I agree that Oleguer, van Bommel and even Marquez should be booked and Henry shouldn't, but remember, referee is bad at both sides.
Referees were very bad at this competition, you guys should blame Henry for sqaundering chances like that, and making Valdez a hero. Why dont u blame Lehmann for making that mistake at the 1st place which is vital? Do u know that usually when a goal is scored that early it changes the game a lot. Everything after that is just speculations. Even if it is 11 man vs 11 man, u don't know what happens after that. I know that Lehmann's sent off is harsh, but he should take the blame in the 1st place for his miscalculation and mistiming, not focusing all the attention on the referee for making a wrong decision.
Hell referees r so incompetent now. I wonder how things r different if Kim Nielson were to referee this game.
And another thing, good thing that Henry signed a new extentions. I hope that u gyus will begin a new era as we being ours
I found it funny from barca fans or all other to say that even if ref would have counted the goal and lehmann would not have been sent off, barca would have won because their game opens up and bla bla bla. thats all a speculation.
Seeing how arsenal started this game, i do think if giulys goal would have been counted, barca would not have gone wild and win 3:0 or something. Its all ofcourse again speculation, but i think arsenal would have retained their defense and as we saw ronaldinho was being held back already with 10 men then arsenal could have done even better with 11 men. really ronaldinho was nowhere in that game. It was Larsson who made special moves instead what got them victory.
Consider that arsenal is a team who plays fast football and they can make very good counterattacks, opponent might have a corner and arsenal cover it and someone like pires or ljungberg takes down the cleared ball, run as far as possible and find henry or someone else. barca fans then say ofcourse that doesnt matter and bla bla bla, we are the champions, but this game could have been still very much differant with 11vs11. arsenal was the best team defensively this season, and yes barca had best attack, but as we saw ronaldinho didnt shine and it took a lot of time and subst larsson and belleti to get a win, we can only imagine how good arsenal could have been with 11 players. imo arsenal could have won it.
Seeing how arsenal started this game, i do think if giulys goal would have been counted, barca would not have gone wild and win 3:0 or something. Its all ofcourse again speculation, but i think arsenal would have retained their defense and as we saw ronaldinho was being held back already with 10 men then arsenal could have done even better with 11 men. really ronaldinho was nowhere in that game. It was Larsson who made special moves instead what got them victory
.Consider that arsenal is a team who plays fast football and they can make very good counterattacks, opponent might have a corner and arsenal cover it and someone like pires or ljungberg takes down the cleared ball, run as far as possible and find henry or someone else. barca fans then say ofcourse that doesnt matter and bla bla bla, we are the champions, but this game could have been still very much differant with 11vs11. arsenal was the best team defensively this season, and yes barca had best attack, but as we saw ronaldinho didnt shine and it took a lot of time and subst larsson and belleti to get a win, we can only imagine how good arsenal could have been with 11 players. imo arsenal could have won it.
northbank said:
And yet you failed to address what I said which was;
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiorityP ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities.
Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
Was that incompetence? Or was it bias?
Our goalkeeper went off! surely he is the most important defensive player on the pitch.
That is speculation, not fact; commonly known as a 'strawman argument' and thus the point has no worth.
Anyway, going back to someone elses point; Arsenal had three clear cut chances to finish the game before Barca scored. Hence, we should have won and deserved to win. Even with their two man superiority
P ) they struggled to break us down and create goalscoring opportunities. Henry fucked up chances he usually eats for breakfast, but as I said, that's life. We'll move on and come back next year.
To the guy above talking about the Villareal game, not only was the foul outside the box, but we also had a legitimate goal chalked off in that game for an offside that never was.
No gripes from me anyway, shit happens and life moves on; I'm proud of my team this year, a truely difficult season ending with a decent showing in the champions league final and a hard fought crack at the big prize next year.
A goal keeper gets sent off , another 1 comes in to replace him and then the manager now has the choice of taking off a player who would not really hurt tactically in defending. Now if it was Campbell or Toure that was sent off, it might have been more difficult as you don't know how fit Senderos is and to be bring him on after he has not played for a while to play in a Cl final will be asking a lot. With a goal keeper its easier as he can always turn out to be a hero as Almunia so nearly was, as Nigel Spink and Cassillas have demonstrated in the past. Anyways kudos to the Arsenal as you guys deserved to be in the final and who knows what might have happened if it was 11 vs 11 but you can bask in glorious defeat
Why have I failed to point our Eto'o having a shot saved?
Of course it is an advantage to have an opposition player sent off, especially when the score is still 0-0 in the 20th minute of the game. Specifically, Arsenal as a team rely on movement, speed, stamina and short passing; losing a player has a major impact as we are less well equipped to deal with it then perhaps someone like Chelsea or ManU who mix up their style of play well.
Strangely enough, and it may have escaped you, but the linesman gave that call. The referee didn't give Arsenal anything all night long. The argument you presented is a logical fallacy.
The rest you wrote about the goalkeeping business is just ridiculous. If the goalkeeper can be a hero, then why can't an outfield player be a hero if they come on? Once again you have presented a logical fallacy.
Any team in the world will be worse affected by their first choice goalkeeper being sent off then arguably any other player.
In Arsenal's case this is especially true if you consider that Almunia hasn't played a single game (competitive or otherwise) since January and Lehmann has been one of our best players this year.
As I'm sure you understand, part of defending is keeping the ball; as Pires is one of our best passers of the ball it is equally as crucial for him to be on the pitch as the players who make tackles. Any sending off unbalances your team, whether it be an attacking player or a defensive player. Everyone shares the responsibility for the game in both directions.
There's nothing glorious about defeat, overall the season was okay. But losing to Barcelona doesn't come into the equation.
Of course it is an advantage to have an opposition player sent off, especially when the score is still 0-0 in the 20th minute of the game. Specifically, Arsenal as a team rely on movement, speed, stamina and short passing; losing a player has a major impact as we are less well equipped to deal with it then perhaps someone like Chelsea or ManU who mix up their style of play well.
Strangely enough, and it may have escaped you, but the linesman gave that call. The referee didn't give Arsenal anything all night long. The argument you presented is a logical fallacy.
The rest you wrote about the goalkeeping business is just ridiculous. If the goalkeeper can be a hero, then why can't an outfield player be a hero if they come on? Once again you have presented a logical fallacy.
Any team in the world will be worse affected by their first choice goalkeeper being sent off then arguably any other player.
In Arsenal's case this is especially true if you consider that Almunia hasn't played a single game (competitive or otherwise) since January and Lehmann has been one of our best players this year.
As I'm sure you understand, part of defending is keeping the ball; as Pires is one of our best passers of the ball it is equally as crucial for him to be on the pitch as the players who make tackles. Any sending off unbalances your team, whether it be an attacking player or a defensive player. Everyone shares the responsibility for the game in both directions.
There's nothing glorious about defeat, overall the season was okay. But losing to Barcelona doesn't come into the equation.
At Arsenal we have fine traditions and when players go against them this is what happens, this is why we are so proud of our team and it's history;
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